Schatt & Morgan

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I bought this S&M tooth pick shortly after buying a slim Cokebottle from the same maker. The Cokebottle main spring quickly snapped in two and flew out of the knife. S&M , after several months, repaired and returned the knife and after minor use, the replacment spring also snapped.
Not trusting Schatt and Morgan, I relegated the toothpick to kitchen duty leaving it open most of the time. Apparently opening and closing of the blade are not the proximate causes of spring failure, This one spontaneously snapped while I was doing kitchen chores.
I suspect Schatt and Morgan /Queen is making these knives for collector/accumulators with no notion that they will see actual use.
 
I certainly would not put up with that kind of dung! I would call Queen and explain what all you have been thru with this particular knife. Let them know it is coming back and if they can't fix it properly you want a replacement. If you tell them your problem (i forget now how to talk to, but just ask whoever answers the phone, they will know) and they know the knife is coming, my experience has been very positive! And we ain't talkin "months"

Dave
 
I use my schatt &morgans all the time . I use them hard as well. No problems with the 4 i have.
 
Any suggestions how to find the "good" ones v. the poor ones? I'm inclined to not buy another - I just got a keystone wharncliffe whittler, which I'm sending back - I don't think I've seen a knife that poorly made before. Certainly not from a US or German company.
 
Buying over the counter is the way to go. Sadly there's hardly a brand today that can be trusted eyes closed. This said, some retailers stand true to a very bold warranty policy. I stick with them. I minimize the risk and the cost while not loosing the incredible diversity offered by the internet.
 
Aglifter said:
Any suggestions how to find the "good" ones v. the poor ones? I'm inclined to not buy another - I just got a keystone wharncliffe whittler, which I'm sending back - I don't think I've seen a knife that poorly made before. Certainly not from a US or German company.
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A considerable loss in quality was noticed after 2010. Up to that point, from the early 1990's until 2007 or so, they were fairly consistent build in both Queen and S/M. I have noticed that the customers expectations have changed much faster than any decline in quality in the aforementioned time period. Knives that were raved about in the early 2000's are now picked apart - same knife, different requirements.

There are always shining stars in any lineup. The ACSB & CZ line seems to have held its quality rather well.

My hopes are that new ownership gets a handle on these issues; as they are collectible knife people.
 
I am someone who has carried a lot of Queens. I like the line. The only line I consistently didn't like (and stopped ordering) was their workhorse series. It just looked and felt cheap.

I don't want to give them a pass on past quality issues, but I don't think they deserved some of their bad rep. They are picking up their game a bunch. I am glad of that. :)
 
I saw some of their camp knives last month at a knife shop, not bad. Some of their regular Queen line did not have the best fit and finish, springs were a little soft. Everything looked really nice. I was under the impression that their SM line was their high quality line, but they have 420 blades on the knives from this line. I would leave ATS34 on the SM line, 1095 and D2 on the Queen line.
 
Dan, you're right that they use 420HC on many Schatts, but they do an excellent job with the heat treat, and it performs about as well as Buck's 420HC. ATS-34 is used on the special series knives, like the File & Wire and Keystone knives.
 
Now my rant....in this day of great steels out there, there is just no excuse for using 420HC. (I understand Buck, but Queen, come on, guys!)
 
Unfortunately I have no S&M knives to compare them with but I have two queens; my first was a giveaway win, a 64 canoe in honey amber stag bone, my second a 26 stockman in curly zebra wood. I have no quality control issues with either. The 26 was a $60 knife and there are tiny fit and finish issues that might drive a die-hard perfectionist a bit up the wall but I don't notice them. The blades click into place nicely and there is no play. D2 always confuses me a bit at first when I haven't used it for a while but the little stockman is now one of the three I picked for the 3 knife challenge and I love it. The queen I must say I don't use much. It is big, a bit too much of a monster for me but the fit and finish is excellent and it's absolutely solid.

Incidentally, my 26 I bought over the internet and had no issues at all, I love it.

Paul
 
okbohn said:
Now my rant....in this day of great steels out there, there is just no excuse for using 420HC. (I understand Buck, but Queen, come on, guys!)
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Im right there with you! I looked at the Keystone series and they are beautiful but 420 steel???????????
 
Paul, your Queen canoe is too big of a monster for you? For me, the canoe is what I consider a small pattern. I dare say you'd be overwhelmed by the ones I pick to carry each day! ;) I too love the D2 steel that they use, and deep down I agree with Dan and Derrick about the steel, to a degree... I wish that they'd use D2 in the Schatt knives as well!
 
puukkoman said:
Dave, the Keystone series use ATS-34, I'm pretty sure. If they are labeled as 420HC, it's a misprint.
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Most of the keystone is 420HC; but they are in good company with Case, Buck, etc. Every knife has its price point, and ats34 doesn't show up on many $60 knives. In a day when there is a booming market selling $200 - 600 production folders it is great to want the best steel possible; but another thing to ask a low tech factory to start competing in a market they don't belong. Peters Heat does a great job with 420HC and most offline users don't know it doesn't work great until you tell them their knife is not the best.

I have pushed a maker or two to use a little newer steel and they flat out told me they can't afford the equipment upgrade.
 
^^ My mistake. I could have sworn they advertised them as ATS-34. Going to have to double-check the box on the one I have now, 'cause you've got me wondering!

Edit: Looks like the one I have is from Keystone Series X, which was made with ATS-34. I've been browsing through some advertising print, and so far I've only found ATS-34 on two series: 9 and 10.
 
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knifeswapper said:
Most of the keystone is 420HC; but they are in good company with Case, Buck, etc. Every knife has its price point, and ats34 doesn't show up on many $60 knives. In a day when there is a booming market selling $200 - 600 production folders it is great to want the best steel possible; but another thing to ask a low tech factory to start competing in a market they don't belong. Peters Heat does a great job with 420HC and most offline users don't know it doesn't work great until you tell them their knife is not the best.

I have pushed a maker or two to use a little newer steel and they flat out told me they can't afford the equipment upgrade.
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I bought the Keystone med Cokebottle for $99 which is 420. Granted its not too spendy but when I can get another Queen for less, that has ATS-34 blades its a bit confusing. To me they set their own bar and shouldnt strive to go under it. Now had the blade been 1095 I would have kept it. I just cant part with ca $100 for a knife that uses the same steel as the cheap knockoffs coming from China.
 
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