Schatt & Morgan

I've only had good experiences with S&M. Bought a few for myself and my dad over the years, and they've all been excellent. The main difference that I've seen, between S&M and Queen, is a little more attention to detail; the S&M's are just a little bit "prettier" than the Queens, with more "frills" or bells & whistles, so to speak.
 
kamagong said:
This. Schatt & Morgan's inconsistent quality is lamentable, but their designs are a cut above. They look like something you might pick up in a store or catalog from a hundred years ago.

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- Christian
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Christian, what's the one with the bone handles on top? I really like that one, I've only carried the other one through thick and thin ;).
 
Id rather have a functionally fit and properly finished knife as opposed to a pretty one that requires fixing upon delivery.
Look a little harder...GEC offers much more than "big and clunky" patterns.
They churn out new patterns every other week and their reputation speaks for itself.
 
Great knife that one Christian, looks and fit to match I'd imagine.

I've got a Queen and Schatt stamped Equal End HJ which was also one of Charle's I think it's the HJ3 in light bone. Very well made/looking knife.

Thanks, Will
 
Per "Id rather have a functionally fit and properly finished knife as opposed to a pretty one that requires fixing upon delivery."

My S&M, plus two Queens that I have, are all properly finished.

I don't know what "functionally fit" means. However, the only thing "wrong" with any S&M or Queen product that I own has been an edge that was too thick for my taste. The edge was "functional" just not to my liking. However, I know how to sharpen a knife :)
 
brownshoe, I would give GEC a chance. Their 73 single blades and new #15 barlows and jacks are some of the best production slipjoints I've ever seen. I used to think that many of GEC's patterns were "on steroids" but they've gotten better over the past few years.

My Mountain Man slipjoint is one of the nicest folders I own. My Heritage jack with rosewood scales, while exhibiting the Heritage issues, is still a pretty good knife. I've had some other good examples of what Queen can do with a great knife.
 
I don't have the most experience with the S&M F&W , or Queen. I have only bought two of each (though the Queens were both Collabs one a Burke grandad barlow, and one a Pardue canoe collab).

I love the steel. D2 has been great at every thing, except the initial re-profile. Even with a belt sander, I was pretty surprised at how much longer it took than with any other steel I have tried. Holds a fantastic edge, and really, is for my uses stainless. It does not impart taste like my 1095, 5160, etc. And even with fruit, including citrous I have had no staining.

The fit and finish, including edge geometry, has been superior on every single GEC I have owned. That is only a small sample too, about 9. So my sample size is small for all three brands.
 
HuntBomb said:
Queen makes S&M, so i would strongly recommend GEC.
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HuntBomb said:
Id rather have a functionally fit and properly finished knife as opposed to a pretty one that requires fixing upon delivery.
Look a little harder...GEC offers much more than "big and clunky" patterns.
They churn out new patterns every other week and their reputation speaks for itself.
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Bigfattyt said:
I don't have the most experience with the S&M F&W , or Queen. I have only bought two of each (though the Queens were both Collabs one a Burke grandad barlow, and one a Pardue canoe collab).

I love the steel. D2 has been great at every thing, except the initial re-profile. Even with a belt sander, I was pretty surprised at how much longer it took than with any other steel I have tried. Holds a fantastic edge, and really, is for my uses stainless. It does not impart taste like my 1095, 5160, etc. And even with fruit, including citrous I have had no staining.

The fit and finish, including edge geometry, has been superior on every single GEC I have owned. That is only a small sample too, about 9. So my sample size is small for all three brands.
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The question was a comparison of Queen to Schatt and Morgan. Leave GEC out of it. Not every thread has to be about GEC.
 
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knarfeng said:
The question was a comparison of Queen to Schatt and Morgan. Leave GEC out of it. Not every thread has to be about GEC.
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I think the question was about Schatt and Morgan in general from the start. Also, since Queen, Schatt& Morgan and GEC are all in the same price range and competitors, comparisons are natural. What is the clear is that Queen in general still needs to address F&F for their product to be the equal of GEC. Again, I LOVE Queen and S&M and I want more of their product. They just need to tighten those blades up. Wobble is easy to avoid.
 
Not trying to beat a dead horse, but I really want to see Queen do well. I have met and done business with Ryan and his wife, but that aside, they have made some really great knives. In regards to the company, I wish them great success.
 
My queens and S&M had fine fit and finish, as did most I've coon fingered at shows. But then I've had good luck with case too. I don't expect perfection for less than 300 in a factory knife.
 
Whatever you do, nobody mention GEC.
I apologize to those offended by me sharing my bad experience with S&M and recommending another brand.
What was I thinking.
Hooray for S&M!
 
S&M is on par with just about everyone else IMO in terms of fit and finish. I've had 4 or 5 pass through my hands the last few years and none had any issues. The only two I've kept are my heritage jacks. I'm just not a fan of stainless or etches. I love their patterns though.

They do have a couple of EO teardrop jacks I want to try out.

The only issue I take up with them is they have all arrived about as sharp as a butter knife. I have the same issue with GEC as well.
 
There are Queen branded knives that are Old Timer quality and there are Queen knives that are top of the line. There are S&M branded knives that are Old Timer quality and there are S&M that are top of the line.

Queen ACSB slabbed knives seem to be very fine knives for some reason. The Queen City from a few years ago (Congress, English Jack) are great; later work knives are somewhat rougher. The S&M File/Wire from a few years ago were great (not a fan of the WG bone); lately I have not been impressed. Same with the keystone series. The Burke / Purdue always seem to be very nice.
 
I have collected Schatt's and other Queen knives for years. IMO they are 1 of the top knife manufacturers in the United States.
Recently GEC has been giving them a run for their money! :cool: But alot of people forget that both Bill Howard, owner of GEC & Ken Daniels, ex co-owner of GEC, came from Queen! Who do you think engineered those 1st fine Harness Jacks that Charlie had Queen make? Who do you think reintroduced those cool old patters in the annual keystone series? Queen was owned by Serveotronics, I'm sure that is spelled wrong, but a big corporation who's job was to make $ for the share holders. Not anymore now it's owned by Ken Daniels family, and I personally expect good things from them, with Queens history and experience all they need do is pay attention to the details. I also expect good things from GEC, both companies are now run by people who get it, you know knife nuts, like us! So to me, when you are comparing Schatt to GEC, you are comparing Bill to Bill or Ken to Ken.
I think we are lucky to have the knife manufactures that are still standing in this country, Case, Canal Street, GEC and Queen all make good products and they are all workin for the same buck, yours and mine.
The Schatt & Morgan line was originally meant to be Queen's collector line in answer to the way Case was marketing their collector line. Queen used a blade steel that polished up better and fit and finish was better than their work line. Just like Case was doing as apposed to their CV work line. Over time I think both companies have gotten somewhat lax in their QC, chasing the almighty buck. Or perhaps like Mike said there work line has gotten better.
Personally I have received some (not many) Schatts that were not up to par. And promptly sent em back, no questions asked, just a simple exchange. And have never received another sub standard knife in return.
I really look forward to the near future and just wish I had deeper pockets! :eek:

Dave
 
knowtracks said:
I have collected Schatt's and other Queen knives for years.

Dave
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So Dave, as regards the original question, how do you see the difference between Schatt and Morgan vs. the regular Queen knives?
Have you noticed a change over time?
 
knarfeng said:
So Dave, as regards the original question, how do you see the difference between Schatt and Morgan vs. the regular Queen knives?
Have you noticed a change over time?
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The quality of the 'older' Queen knives were suberb
Older are the Black Cherry (delrin), and the Cocobloa, Maple, and Stagebone White and Amber
There were the best on the market and at a price point that beat the main popular penknife manufacture of the time

S&M were excellent, significantly better than the Queen line
S&M were extemely high quality users and not really collectors
The Queen City line was also so suberb
Remember, Case used Queen to produce their Classic line
So how ever good Queen was, S&M was even better

The last line of that quality was Keystone Series #19, 2009
The 1st Heritage were good, but the the 2nd Heritage had slipped poorly

The Economy line in delrin and carbon are well priced at $35, but do not compete with anyone because of poor marketing

I have stopped buying slipjoints because I reached a saturation point of collecting
And no one will ship to non-Conus
But the fall in the F&F of the S&M was also enough for me not to do more buying

I would say time frame of the loss of quality happened when folk left and went to GEC

Now Queen and S&M Heritage are similar, not accounting for the carbon and wood
S&M F&W are still significantly better than Queen
 
knarfeng said:
So Dave, as regards the original question, how do you see the difference between Schatt and Morgan vs. the regular Queen knives?
Have you noticed a change over time?
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Probably I think about the 2 differently than most folks here. When I hear Schatt and Morgan I think of the original company and the knives they made before going under in 1932. Back then both companies made primarily "working man knives" but both companies had a "gentleman's line" also.
As far as the reintroduction of the Schatt line by Queen in 1991 until present I would have to say that as far as the Annual Keystone Series goes, my interest has slipped to some degree. Not only has the Quality Control been more hit and miss, but to some degree they ran out of patterns to keep it fresh. The Keystone series ran for 20 years at an average of 6 knives per year! Handle material had the same problem IMO. They did Stag twice and Buffalo Horn once but the rest was jigged bone.
I felt that some years Queen had to rush to get them out the door on time, the last year really stands out in my mind. I sent the whole set back! :( I had never done that before.
If I remember correctly the 1st 3 years the blade steel was 440C or A, then they went to 420HC with the exception of the 9th and 10th year where Queen used ATS-34 for main blades only. :confused: Don't ask me why.
As far as blade steel goes Queen has always been right up front, the 1st U.S. production knife company to use stainless continuously. 1st production company to use ATS-34 and D-2. Peters Heat treating has done all their blade steel for years and does an outstanding job.
Personally I think Queens working line, with D-2 and bone covers has improved (as Mike said) to the point of equaling Queen's collector line. I really like D-2 steel for an EDC.
The File and Wire line with ATS-34 has always been top shelf IMO. And the quality has stayed up where it belongs. The only complaint I have is they continue to make large patterns, but I have never had to send 1 back yet. Maybe I've just been lucky, but I'd rather be lucky than good any day. :D
I'm not particularly a fan of the Worm Groove continuing for ever, but I do like it in some colors.
Over all I feel that the QC has slipped to some degree especially in the last few years, but I figure that has to do with the pressure from above. Queen does so many jobs for "other" brand names I think maybe the powers that use to be just saw the bottom line and perhaps neglected or took for granted the Schatt & Morgan line to some extent.
But of course this is just my opinion, :)
Dave
 
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