Scope or no scope for lever action?

ackblade:

lots of debate here reguarding which and what scope.

what i want to put across to you is this: we owe it to the game we hunt to deliver a quick and humane kill. if a scope will aid you in delivering that, then by all means, put one on. don't worry about making your vintage style lever action look a little modern.

i shoot a 94 lever action. i have a low power scope with rings that allow me to use either the iron sights (for in the brush) or the scope (for open range/distance shots).

i am sure that at 100+ yards, you will put a more humane shot on any deer with a scoped rifle. as a young hunter, maybe you haven't had the misfourtune of putting lead thru a deer and not recovering the animal. so i recommend doing whatever it takes to avoid that. it's a restless nights sleep when that happens.

and practice plenty in the off season! confidence when you squeeze that trigger makes all the difference.
 
I have 3 Marlins. One has Lyman peep site, very helpful. One has the Ghost
Ring Site, very quick to line up a shot. and the other is still stock. All work but you need to get to know the rifle.

A scope has an advantage but throws the balance off, harder to carry the gun and looks "funky" on a lever action.
 
If you are carrying this thing all day long and through scrub and brush then a scope is merely added weight and obstruction and something that will go out of whack. Are you an field shooter or a bush hunter? Anything out to 75 yards and using a scope is a waste of time IMO. You have no peripheral vision while you're looking through one and if the subject moves or jumps or is about to walk behind a tree it's difficult to gauge lead and all that. My old Springfield bolt rifle has a Lyman peep sight with a small aperture which can flip down to leave a larger aperture and that old girl has taken running and jumping deer with the best of them. I shoot with both eyes open. At my buddy's farm in a tree stand where all the shots are 100-300 yards and there is a padded rail to lean the gun on I gravitate towards a scope. Peep sight gun will shoot that far easy but placing the shot when the entire animal is within the aperture is nowhere near as precise as with a scope.
If Marlins are at all like Winchesters they are primarily bush guns; 30-30 and all those blunt tipped bullet designs are not ideal for flat shooting over long distances.
 
Scopes usually ruin the balance and handling of lever guns and ability for quick well aimed second shots. Better is a peep. If the peep's aperture is too tight for hunting, use a larger one or just unscrew disc and put it away.
 
I'm sitting in the woods at this moment with a scoped lever action!

I always wanted a levergun, and 8 or years back I got a nice Marlin 1894 in .44 Magnum. I use it to hunt the heavy woods around here. First I installed XS Halo sights and man are they robust and fast! I am able to keep a pop can moving through all 10 shots at 40 yards, something I can't do with many V-notch open sights. The Skinners are the same concept and should serve well. The reason I put a scope on is a complicated one: I love to reload and though I knew I had worked up a load that was accurate at 50 yards, I couldn't ever get a better group than 5-6" at 100 yards with the large apature Halo sights. I hemmed and hawed about mounting a big scope like all my other rifles until I looked into scout scopes. I was able to get a Leupold M8-EER 2x scope for cheap and mounted it on a Williams scout mount. The scope may only be 2x power, but it allows me to shoot 2.5" groups at 100 yards and very quickly get a sight picture with both eyes open. If you mount a scope, I'd make sure of a couple things: low power (much easier to find a target fast), mounts as low as possible (lever stocks are lower than bolt action stocks to allow you to use the iron sights), and detachable (because see-through mounts are way too tall for a levergun).

I took this picture just now:
2013-11-17_08-04-22_246_zpsc70709bb.jpg
 
Having said what I just posted above, I'll add a caviat: if you are just now purchasing hunting gear, a nice pair of binoculars should come before scoping a lever action. You need to identify what you intend to shoot before ever bringing your gun up. I love a decent pair of mid-size binoculars even when hunting where shots aren't over 100 yards. Also, with open sights, plan on practicing with a few boxes of ammo. Once you learn how to shoot that particular gun, you'll be a lot more confident no matter what you're sighting through.
 
I have deer hunted with a Marlin 336C .30-30 for 25 years or so, and have had a 3-9x40 scope on it. This year, I am going to replace that scope with a smaller, fixed 4x scope, or maybe a 1-4 variable. Most of my shots are 100 yards or less, and I agree with the others, a 3-9 is overkill.
 
A Justice said:
No, you read it right. He can get a better 3x9 or a fixed powered 10x scope for cheaper than he could a good variable 1-4. I agree that in theory a variable powered 1-4x is a superior scope for a gun that doesn't have much range, but I want to see pictures of your guys lever action rifles with these 1-4x tactical scopes you're raving about. Most 1-4s have an eye relief that is suited for AR-15 style guns, and I've never seen someone running them on a lever gun. I'm not saying it' impossible, just isn't happening very much in my experience.

More $$$= better scope. I have a few vortex scopes that are good values, but I haven't ever had a cheap scope that has better glass than my Zeiss, and the glass in my 1-4 Trijicon is considerably better than the glass in my 1-4 Vortex - both of them are multiple times better than any 1-4 you're going to find for under 500$.

If you're wanting to go hunting, get a bolt gun. If you want to get multiple shots off faster, there is an AR or variant in a suitable caliber. Lever guns are a compromise on both platforms, and offer advantages over neither (You're always going to shoot a semi-auto faster, and I a 700 Remington in .308 is going to be more accurate than your 30x30 Winchester every day of the week).

ETA- A fixed power 4x scope is a good option for a lever action rifle, if you're going to use it for shooting deer or want to shoot targets quickly. Most of the 4x scopes I've owned aren't great though, and I wouldn't want to put a Tasco on any gun that I was using for more than plinking.
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Wow! No offense but clearly you don't hunt deer (maybe you shoot them, but you obviously don't hunt them). A lever gun was designed to be a svelt repeater you carry all day and shoot things that are not huge distances away. I can load 11 rounds of .44 Mag in my 1894 and when walking through thick aspen stands nothing gets caught up (no scope or sling for those days). It would be much more difficult to do the same with an AR. Plainly said: the levergun is still very relevent in actual use, I know this because I actually use one. Aside from use, the cost of getting and using a specialty AR for deer hunting is around 6 times more than a great condition used 336. And last I checked the .30-30 is almost a spitting image of many of the large bore AR cartridges.

I picked my Leupold up for a great price used, and could get another any day for under $200. There are many companies who make Levergun mounts for EER and IER scopes. My scope works perfectly and was no where near the cost of a Zeiss. Sometimes inexpensive and older technology just works best for a certain application. I know it sucks that your expensive gear may have been designed for modern warfare and not hunting but that doesn't make it right to recommend it to a new hunter.
 
I've had a Lyman peep on my 336T 30-30 ever since I bought it new for $ 67.00. It has taken many deer. :thumbup:
 
These arguments can go on forever. Scope or no scope. Like asking for an opinion of 'stick vs automatic' driving. Every gun writer in town (n. American-that is) will already tell you that 30-30 is meagre for hunting and yet that venerable old cartridge has filled many more pots and freezers than anything else out there. As they say "a carpenter never blames his tools". Learn to shoot free-hand open sight so as to be immediately comfortable with the gun and careful aiming becomes almost secondary. Lots of scope hunters can't hit the side of a barn unless they're positioned perfectly, the gun is stable and the target doesn't move. You, on the other hand will be ready at moment's notice, standing, sitting or mid-stride when bucky jumps up out of the weeds or suddenly charges into view. Round tip 30 cal is a wonderful brush bullet that doesn't deflect, tumble or come apart whenever it hits a twig or branch (or even a rain drop as in 223/22-250). Now is also a good time to learn to reload your own ammunition so that you can gradually fine-tune whatever accuracy is inherent to your particular rifle.
 
I bought a Skinner Sights Lo Pro for my Marlin 1894. I upgraded this year to Skinner winged front and rear sights and they are nice and accurate as well. Yesterday I put a 2 piece base on it with a Bushnell 4x32 scope. If I like using a scope on it I will upgrade to a nice shotgun scope, maybe a 1-4 or something.
 
300Six said:
These arguments can go on forever. Scope or no scope. Like asking for an opinion of 'stick vs automatic' driving. Every gun writer in town (n. American-that is) will already tell you that 30-30 is meagre for hunting and yet that venerable old cartridge has filled many more pots and freezers than anything else out there. As they say "a carpenter never blames his tools". Learn to shoot free-hand open sight so as to be immediately comfortable with the gun and careful aiming becomes almost secondary. Lots of scope hunters can't hit the side of a barn unless they're positioned perfectly, the gun is stable and the target doesn't move. You, on the other hand will be ready at moment's notice, standing, sitting or mid-stride when bucky jumps up out of the weeds or suddenly charges into view. Round tip 30 cal is a wonderful brush bullet that doesn't deflect, tumble or come apart whenever it hits a twig or branch (or even a rain drop as in 223/22-250). Now is also a good time to learn to reload your own ammunition so that you can gradually fine-tune whatever accuracy is inherent to your particular rifle.
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Why squirrel hunting is so good for a man.
 
leghog said:
Why squirrel hunting is so good for a man.
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You are right on; successful squirrel hunters make for successful deer hunters. But I will take this mild challenge one step further up and into: "why hunting doves is so good for a man". 22 on squirrels is skill enough but they aren't that quick and mistakenly do slow down (ie stop) every once in awhile. You can readily learn that game when you're hungry. Mourning doves on the other hand do 'boogie right on by' when they're on the wing and taking them out requires a lot of practice. Get real handy with a scattergun and then all of a sudden a lever with iron sights can do wonders for you in the woods when Bambi decides to scamper by .
 
I am an avid Elk and Deer hunter. I started hunting when I was 13, and this year I turned 52.

Some years back I remember reading an interesting article. I can't remember where I read it though. It was a statistical chart from the late 60's pertaining to which rifle had been used the most for elk hunting, at the time. IIRC it pertained to the state of Washington.

Now granted, things have changed over the years, with the invention of larger calibers, and most people using bolt action rifles....
The 30-30 at that time had taken more Elk than any other round, even the 30-06. Also listed was the 32 Winchester, and even the lowly 25-20.

Now I am sure those numbers are different, but the fact is, they work. Even the thinking that the 30-30 is a "brush gun" has become a contested issue over time.

If I ever go back to rifle hunting, it will be with a lever rifle, or a Ruger #1 in 45-70. It won't have a scope, as long as my eyesight allows it, but that is a personal preference.

Back to the OP... You are just getting started, so I would like to offer you some advice from my perspective.

-Use a rifle YOU like...

-Shot it a lot. Offhand. Not from a bench...

-If you read a lot of hunting magazines, some have great advice in them, but don't take it for gospel... Most are geared towards advertising, and selling products.

-Spend your time learning hunting skills... The reward from this will be far greater than which caliber is the best, or if you have to have a $1,000 scope.

-If you don't already know how, have someone teach you how to sharpen a knife, without using jigs or other systems. That way you will be able to touch up an edge in the field. Nothing worse than trying to work on an animal with a dull knife.
 
the needs of the user really dictate whether or not glass is used on his lever gun. When I was a 'yute, I never used a scope. Now, in my dotage, I really have to use one. Just can't see the sights without a good scope
Marlin 1894S, in .44 Mag, with a Nikon Monarch 1-4X.
 
A bit off topic, but that boat sailed halfway down the first page... It's possible that the scope you have on the gun doesn't have enough eye-relief to make it comfortable. at the end of the day, you need to be comfortable behind the stock, so that you can get repeatable results. I hunted quite a bit with a iron sighted 94, did my own 30-30 handloads, and quite enjoyed it. I never really shot much with scopes so I'm preferential to irons, but I know some guys who do all their shooting through mid to low power glass. Figure out what feels right, and that will probably involve a few hundred rounds. Besides, most guns out shoot most shooters, so you may find that you have certain range limits with the irons that can be fixed with a scope. it depends on a lot of factors, eyesight being one, but not the only. Personally in your situation, I would loose the scope for now. get comfortable with the rifle, then look into finding somewhere that you could try a few leaver guns with scopes that have been set up, and see what feels good to you. I would avoid spending too much money since you already have a good rifle, until you know what your shooting style will be like, and the conditions you'll be under.

There is an other side that doesn't get mentioned often enough, practice isn't just so you get good at hitting what you want to. It's also learning which shots you shouldn't take. as you look around you think about where things are, if a target animal were to show up, what direction is your safe shot? do you have time to wait for a better one?(if you don't it might not be time to be pulling the trigger) Can you make that shot, or are you just "pretty sure" There are more opinions on what is the right way to do things than there are people who do said things. But in all of talk of technique and gear we don't focus enough on when not to shoot.
 
i deer hunt with a scoped marlin 336. i have a nikon prostaff 2x7 which i find is a good fit for the ranges i hunt. the biggest issue i find with scoping a lever gun is getting a good cheek weld. the stocks are meant to be used with open sights so when you mount a scope it's tough to a good anchor to the stock and get your eye level up high enough to see through the scope correctly. two things you can do to help with this...
1) mount the scope as low as possible. they make little extenders for the hammer that help with getting your thumb on it if the scope is in the way. you can also pull the sights off if they're an issue.
2) get a cheek pad or find some way of raising the stock. i took an old mouse pad and cut it into strips and wrapped it on there with some mcnett's camo wrap. this helped out a lot. also added a limbsaver recoil pad which extended the pull just a bit and helped with fit.
 
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