Sebenza! Hype or Hallelujah!

I'd have to agree with the general theme of the responses so far... if I could choose only one, and I really needed a knive that I could count on when the chips were down, out of all the folders I'd choose a Sebenza.

I don't consider myself a rabid Sebenza or Chris Reeve fanatic... I simply appreciate excellence (in design, function, materials, and customer service) when I find it!

Awesome knife! Good value when compared against most customs.

AJ
 
First off, I'd like to say that the Sebenza is a very nice knife. It has premium BG-42 blade steel, and titanium handles. Also, Sebenza's are crafted excellantly.

My only beef with them, is first, the ugly clip has to go! Second, the only REAL downfall to me are the handle ergonomics, as well as the way the spine of the blade merges into the handle.

Also, does the Sebenza have an ambi-thumb stud?

If it had a SLIGHTLY different handle design, but kept all of the same materials, components, and craftsmanship...I would buy one.

And no, I don't mean by making the knife smaller like in the small 'Benza, or the Umfaan, I still don't like the handle ergonomics.

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I need a bigger bucket.
 
A sebenza thread! I must respond! OK first off, I think I'm a CR fanatic, so I may be a little biased. I love my small sebenza! Perfet in every way, except maybe the clip. I like the way it's positioned and all, the only thing is the reports of some clips breaking. Makes me worry sometimes when I clip it to thick clothing. And maybe if Chris uses a "better" steel, if there is such a thing. With all the different SUPER STEELS coming and going I'm starting to wonder. Other than that I love my sebenza.

As much as I love my sebenza I do wonder about the custom knives out there. Are they better than the sebenza? I have very limited experience with customs so I wouldn't know.
One thing though, I dont see how fit would be better on these customs if Chris' tolerances are .0002 of an inch. Don't see how anyone custom or factory can beat that.

Yes Stompy you can get ambi-studs for 20 dollars extra I believe.



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Johnny
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I'm thinking instead of comparing a Sebenza to three or four Benchmades, compare it to a "dream knife" that you design with an integral lock and similar construction. I don't think at this point there's much harm in taking Mr. Reeve's lock mechanism as long as you give credit where it due and don't apply your own trademarked name as Benchmade or Elishewitz have done. So imagine that you have the same excellent locking mechanism, the same excellen steel (or even better - 440V, Talonite, etc.) but in the exact shape that you specify. If you think that the Sebenza (or any knife that already exists) is "perfect" for you, I think you haven't thought about it enough - only you can design the knife that's "perfect" for you. I believe that there are lesser-known makers out there who could make this happen for a comparable price to the Sebenza. Now how does it stack up?

Tolerances aren't all there is to "fit and finish." Benchmade claims tolerances on the level of 0.0005" and we know what their fit can be like. I agree that a Sebenza is far superior to this, but it's also VERY simple. Imagine some nicely fitted scales, a little filework, that sort of thing. I'm not attacking the Sebenza - it's better to make a simple knife almost perfectly than a more complex one sloppy. But let's look at it for what it is.

I think the Sebenza is the finest there is on the "factory" scale. But (I am biased) I feel that if you are paying handmade prices, you ought to get a handmade knife, where you can decide all the particulars, and even dictate the design. Tip-down? No problem. Double-ground spearpoint? No problem. Some Ironwood scales? No problem. You have a drawing on a napkin? No problem.

Do you see where I'm coming from?

-Drew
 
You got it Drew...I agree...I have very mixed feelings about this, but I got a great deal...I would have never paid $325 for this knife though. I feel that the dealer cost for this knife is fairly reasonable, it's the contractual agreement that blows. Full retail prices are a crock. I guess I'm just spoiled though. I get ALL my knives...MagLites, and etc. at dealer or distributor cost. I just wish I could say the same for trucks and groceries and stuff.
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-AR

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- AKTI Member ID# A000322

- Intelligent men, unfortunately, learn from fools, more often than fools learn from intelligent men.


 
The Sebenza is over priced, ugly and their trade practices border on vertical price fixing. IMHO

Would I trade 5 Benchmade's for one Sebenza? Yes, in a second. But then I would sell them and buy a new Sebenza.

It's not that a Sebenza is that far superior to Benachmade or et al, it is that it's enough superior that you can't go back to something of lesser quality.
 
I just got my Sebenza (Large) the other day. It the most solid, well built knife I have ever handle (though my experience has been limited to factory knives like Spyderco, Benchmade, Emerson).

I dont feel that its handle is any more comfortable or uncomfortable than any of the other like knives on the market.

Price wise, I got mine at dealer cost though a distributor that our agencies Welfare and Recreation Assoc. uses. I might have still bought the Sebenza at the 325.00, but not for the 400.00 plus I have seen some places asking, nor would I spend the extra 100.00 or so for the decorated models.

This is not because I dont think the Sebenza is worth it, it is just that dont want to pay over 400.00 for any knife (unless it comes with some sort of forever sharp guarantee). I understand the makers and manufactures have to make a profit to stay in business, but at the same time I feel many set their prices at the high end of the profit spectrum at the expense of the consumer (Okay I will get off my soap box now).

All in all I like the Sebenza and if you can get it a cost or for 325.00 or less I say it is worth it (IMHO).
 
Corduroy,

I like what you said and it makes alot of sense. I do like the Sebenza but with a few changes it would be my ideal knife. Things such as a flat grind, 440V, perhaps an inch larger and 1/16th of an inch thicker, but to each his own.
Overall I do like the knife and the customer service is second to none. Now while I think it was a good deal overall I wouldn't buy another for that price.
I still favor my Military though(go figure).
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Just my $0.02
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The only limitation is lack of imagination.

Romans 10:9-10

"Military" Fans Unite!!


 
I've listened to a lot of rhetoric and opinions about the relative worth of the Sebenza, including comparisons to customs and factory made folders. All I have is my opinion after soldiering for 23 years, hunting and biking in the woods, and having owned/handled quite a few folders. My basic load out of bladeware always includes my Sebenza because I have found no better tool. This means I am willing to stake my life on this tool and my ability to use it! 'Nough said!

Bruce Woodbury
 
I'm one of the few people who are not so overwhelmed by the Sebenza. I've handled a few and yes, they are very well made and from everything I hear the Reeve's and their customer service are second to none. But $325 for a production knife? No thanks.

After handling a large Sebenza at a local knife show I came home and purchased a Carnivour "and" an Emerson Commander! With change left over.

I know that the Sebenza sells faster than it's made, at it's current price. Imagine how many would be sold if they cut their profit margine and dropped the price $100 so the "average Joe" can afford one too!

Just my opinion, and you know what those are like, everybody has one!

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"May you live in interesting times"

AKTI - A000389


 
I've carried my my small sebenza now for about 3 or 4 months now and it is also the finest knife I've ever owned but my former knives were also all factory knives. I love my sebenza but maybe the sebenza worship has got out of hand or mabe not.Hell I don't know. I just know I like my knife and carry it every day. I have a feeling it will outlast me.
 
Well after reading all the pros and cons..I really don't care what anyone else feels...I too have many knives. But for an all around daily users the Seb..is the sturdiest, most used friendly knife I own. It is fast and easy and unlike say my McDonald very much less intimidateing when fliked around the office..it just has a stout little design that fits my life style better than most..BUT, I'm sure there are many other great knives I don't have..because Lord knows there are a thousand other designs and knives to own...Sebenzas are just easy.....And you will agree(well most of you) they are STOUT well built tools, with a outstanding warranty and service reputation!!!Its not hype, its just right...
Bart
ps I like the clip too!!!
 
I carry and use a large Sebenza every day. I also carry one of several Mad Dog fixed blades. The Sebenza is used for detail work or in social settings where a fixed blade might cause an adverse reaction.

Quite simply, the Sebenza is the finest quality folder I have seen or used at any price. This spells VALUE. It is the only folder I trust. Living in Kalifornia, I occasionally carry a Vaquero Grande and soon a REKAT Sifu, but these large folders only have one purpose in my mind. The Sebenza is and hopefully will always be the only knife that gets used. At $325, the Sebenza is a bargin.
 
After reading alot of excellent replies in this thread, I really feel that I know what the Sebenza is all about. It appears to be one of if not the best production folder made. It is simplistic, sturdy, and functions beautiful enough to draw emotion from those who handle or own one. Cheaper folders may work as well, but when you buy quality it is assured to last longer and just make you feel better about owning quality.

I may buy a Sebenza or opt for a handmade folder. Since I do very little cutting with a knife, I'd like a highend knife to carry and enjoy for many years to come. Perhaps a few more dollars or more will get me a Elishewitz with white micarta or maybe a Turzuola.... Then again maybe a hevenly Sebenza. Hallelujah!!! I see the light!
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I've been a Sebenza fan for a while now, and have relegated all my other folders back to their respective boxes. I appreciate the fit, finish, and quality of the knife, and, IMHO, it stacks up extremely well as a "production" folder against many custom folders. At a custom knife show I attended earlier this year, there were knives with higher prices that seemed to lag behind the Sebenza in quality and detail.

I personally have found that one way to look at Sebenza ownership is based on cost per actual usage. A prettier knife, or a knife not built to the high standards of a Sebenza will either be used little, and lightly when it is, left in a display case or box, or fail when there is hard work to be done. I use my Sebenza, often hard, every day, it has held up and not failed me, when in the past I found myself replacing knives once a year or more. Of course I have no thoughts of doing so, but if I retired my Sebenza tomorrow and put it away, I feel that it still would have been money well spent.

Since I've been following this thread both here and in the rec.knives newsgroup, somebody responded in rec.knives with a very succinct post that I would like to share with you. I apologize for snipping for brevity's sake, but the main context and tone of the posters' ideas remain intact here. I had difficulties maintaining the identity of all the posters involved, however, this thread should be easily available through your ISP news server or DejaNews for more detailed reading.
Third, while you and other critics are correct in that his prices are beyond what much of the over-all knife market is willing to pay, the same can be said of many other kinds of products that have low, medium,
and high-end values that are miles apart. Today, a $500 stereo system will have audio quality that was impossible to achieve even in systems costing 10x as much 25 years ago, yet there are still $5000 stereo systems out there being bought by the few who can afford them, and who want "the best" even though the much lower end systems are better than they have ever been.

Your most inaccurate criticism however has to do with how much the Sebenza is used by those who own it. It seems there are people who own
knives just for the sake of owning them, and they don't do much more with them than cutting boxes. The Sebenza is indeed very expensive for a box cutter. Then there are those who use their knives a lot, and whose applications sometimes demand the strength of either a fixed blade, or at least the strongest folder they can get. The Sebenza fills that latter niche, and those of us who use it know it does it very well.

Like one of the responses to this thread has said... Once you've held it, if you can't appreciate why it costs as much as it does, you probably don't need it.

: costing 10x as much 25 years ago, yet there are still $5000 stereo systems out there being bought by the few who can afford them, and who want "the best" even though the much lower end systems are better than they have ever been.

I know people who have spent $5k on cables for a stereo system, and others who are content with their walkman. It's unfortunate that Reeves is being singled out as he does seem to make a very high quality product, but it seems to be a common complaint in many areas of interest as there enough demand to create very expensive products.
A few lines from one of my favorite posts on one of the astronomy newsgroups seems to address it nicely:

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Newsgroups: sci.astro.amateur
From: freeman@netcom.com (Jay Reynolds Freeman)
Subject: Binoculars for Astronomy -- some advice

[ I deleted most of the post for this reply - johno]

Some people pay as much as $1000 for a 7x50 binocular, but cheap and sleazy imports can be had new for as little as $50, and sometimes real bargains show up at garage sales and the like. If you are on a budget, do not worry if you have to buy the cheapest and sleaziest binocular you can find -- it will be lots better than the naked eye --
but expect your friends and fellow net-posters to be critical and condescending. Ignore us: We believe that having fancy gadgets makes us morally superior, we are dumb enough to think that more money always makes things better, and we are too cowardly ever to admit wasting money on something that wasn't worth the high price.

On the other hand, if you like high-tech gadgets, or if you are willing to pay a lot for the best binocular possible, and if you are certain you know exactly what you want, then go ahead and buy a more expensive binocular -- it will give noticeably better performance than a cheap one, but expect your friends and fellow net-posters to be critical and condescending. Ignore us: We believe that using inexpensive technology makes us morally superior, we are dumb enough to think that more money never makes things better, and we are too cowardly ever to admit that our needs and desires have outstripped our
budgets.

5) Now a virtual test: Don't really do this, it's for experts only. Hold the binocular out at arm's length and drop it on the floor.
I say again, don't really do it, just pretend that you are going to. If you have a virtual heart attack, or experience virtual
financial ruin, perhaps you should consider a less expensive model.
The theory here is that if you worry too much about loss or damage, you may end up babying the instrument so much you don't use it, in which case you are a collector of scientific instruments -- a fine and enjoyable hobby in its own right -- but not an astronomer.


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Don LeHue

The pen is mightier than the sword...outside of arm's reach. Modify radius accordingly for rifle.


 
I think Thaddeus nailed the Sebenza wave a long time ago when he commented that (paraphrase from memory) "most sebenza owners only have benchmade knives to compare to". Of course if you compare a product to something 1/3 its price then it it going to look very good but as Drew has commented on, in the Sebenza price range are custom knives.

I have handled a Sebenza and Benchmades, Sypderco's, Cold Steels etc., and the division is clear with the Sebenza easily being my folder of choice. However I have not handled any high end custom folders. How would a small Sebenza compare to a Pack River folder for example?


-Cliff
 
trying to become a senior member eeerrr um oh yeah Sebenza ... Right.. um I really really really wish I owned one and they are supposed to be even better than advertised number 2 on my wish list. gotta go bye.
 
I have used a friends large and small Sebenza on different occasions and thought it was a GREAT knife.

But, I also wonder how it would compare to a high end custom? Can you get more for your money from numerous custom makers? Could I have a GREAT knife made to my specifications for this amount of money?
 
Cliff..you are correct Sir..but most Sebenza owners are pretty knowledgeable and don't compare Sebs to Benchmades. Being custom in my opinion doesn't mean one knife is better than another if say the same materials are used. Just a different design. Chris Reeve's quality and materials are second to none in every knife he makes and in some cases better than some customs I've handled.I had one well known custom maker(won't mention his name) tell me that his $325.00 knives were handmade and a slight inperfection was fine and gave the knife character! I think the Sebenza design is pretty cool...I couldn't choose any better materials for a everyday knife at any price...And being that the scales are ti I don't think there are to many options for machineing..you either use cnc, laser or waterjet....so highend production or custom doesn't matter...The Sebenza just seems to be right, its got soul...There are alot of great knives out today..The Seb is one of them. I think we are in the GOLDEN AGE of cutlery...My head spins when I go to a well stocked knife store. (ex. The Acorn in Gatlinburg TN.)The have most all brands and about 50 custom makers wears. They have a few over $2000.00 knives!! Yikes
Sorry for rambleing(not as long as DONL'S)...Bottom line, buy what feels right to you. If you don't think something is worth the price..don't buy it. I happen to know mine is worth every cent I paid!!!
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[This message has been edited by Bartman (edited 14 August 1999).]
 
To date, I haven't come across the job my Delica couldn't handle. Until I find one, I won't really consider the Sebenza.

As incredibly high quality as it is, if you don't need, why waste the money?

RedTwin
 
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