stjames
Sebenzanista
- Joined
- Oct 26, 1998
- Messages
- 6,465
RedTwin1, no offence, but what can your Delica do that my SAK Spartan cant?
But we cannot start to compare apples to oranges. If you want to compare a Sebenza to a custom or other factory Integral lock knife, then lets. But you cannot start to compare it to any other type of locking folder, be it liner lock, leaf lock, spring actuated (rolling, axis, etc) lock, mid-lock or lock back. I prefer an Integral lock because of its reliability over other lock styles. The use of the Integral lock requires certain materials and tolerances be maintained, thus limiting some of your choices.
So what can we comparing the Sebenza to? Here is a short list of Integral lock knives that I know of, and please feel free to add the ones that I have no doubt missed:
Major manufacturer;
BM 750 Monolock, Benchmade Knives, MSRP $150.00, available for less then $100.00
S2, Columbia River K&T, MSRP $150.00, available for less than $100.00
Limited manufacturer;
Sebenza, Chris Reeve Knives, MSRP $325.00, seldom discounted
MPF, Mission Knives, MSRP $385.00, seldom discounted
Custom Maker;
Medium Apogee, Darrel Ralph, $450.00, includes decorative anodization
Janus, Elishewitz/Crawford, $550.00, but includes Damasteel in cost
With the first two have adapted the Integral lock for mass production. Both have narrowed the portion of the lock bar, and it only meets the tang at a narrow point on the outside of the handle. Benchmade used the full bar lockup on the original Pinnacle, but changed to the modified design to simplify production. Instead of relying on the solid, across the bar lock up, they are using a triangular locking arraignment, with the pivot and stop pin forming two points of the triangle along with the locking bar. Along with the use of less effective steels and spotty heat tempering, not to mention the always-popular fit and finish perception/reality argument, this type of factory modification knocks both of these products out of competition with the Sebenza. You get a less expensive knife that uses compromised design concepts and is of lesser quality and workmanship.
With the second group we have the original, the Sebenza, and its all Ti competitor, the Mission MPK. The MPK is also offered in a steel bladed version, and I have heard good things about the quality of their knives. They use a similar production process as well as materials as Chris Reeve Knives, and the cost for the products are comparative, what Mission offers is a different choice of blade and handle designs. It also suffers from the same limitations of the Sebenza, that it cannot be specifically customized to a purchasers specifications, and the conceived drawback that they are both produced in factory conditions. You get a knife in the same price range of similar quality, but with different specific design, and that suffers from the same drawbacks and limitations.
And lastly we have the custom makers. I am sure there are more to choose from whom make an Integral or frame lock knife (Johnny Stout, R.J. McDonald, and Mike Lamprey are names that I have heard mentioned) but I am not fortunate enough to be familiar with their work. I am including the Bolster lock here for comparison only, but I feel that it is close to qualifying and gives a view of the rest of the field, since I can find so few specific pieces to use in comparison. The only one that I can accurately use as a comparison is the Apogee.
I own three sizes of the Apogee, and on each one of them the fit is superb, the lockup is solid and reliable, and the decorations are beautifully done. Darrel uses top quality materials and the workmanship is excellent, he was a genuine pleasure to do business with, and his time and attention to the project really show in the finished work. Great knives, and worth every penny. I am proud to have them in my collection, and trust them as quality, reliable tools.
You can get a knife in a slightly higher price range, custom made, sole authored and produced down to the heat treatment of the blade, built to your design specifications, using the exact materials you choose and fit and finished to as high a standard as human tolerances allow.
But I also own several styles and both sizes of Sebenza, and on each one of them the fit is superb, the lockup is solid and reliable, and the decorated ones are beautifully done. Chris Reeve Knives uses top quality materials and the workmanship is excellent. Anne Reeve is always a pleasure to do business with, and the time and attention to that the entire staff gives shows in the finished work. Great knives, and worth every penny. I am proud to have them in my collection, and trust them as quality, reliable tools.
So, in our comparative study of study of cost to quality, where does the much debated Sebenza stand?
You cant get a better knife for less money, but you can get one as good to your exact specifications if you want to spend more.
Isnt this where we started?
------------------
James
But we cannot start to compare apples to oranges. If you want to compare a Sebenza to a custom or other factory Integral lock knife, then lets. But you cannot start to compare it to any other type of locking folder, be it liner lock, leaf lock, spring actuated (rolling, axis, etc) lock, mid-lock or lock back. I prefer an Integral lock because of its reliability over other lock styles. The use of the Integral lock requires certain materials and tolerances be maintained, thus limiting some of your choices.
So what can we comparing the Sebenza to? Here is a short list of Integral lock knives that I know of, and please feel free to add the ones that I have no doubt missed:
Major manufacturer;
BM 750 Monolock, Benchmade Knives, MSRP $150.00, available for less then $100.00
S2, Columbia River K&T, MSRP $150.00, available for less than $100.00
Limited manufacturer;
Sebenza, Chris Reeve Knives, MSRP $325.00, seldom discounted
MPF, Mission Knives, MSRP $385.00, seldom discounted
Custom Maker;
Medium Apogee, Darrel Ralph, $450.00, includes decorative anodization
Janus, Elishewitz/Crawford, $550.00, but includes Damasteel in cost
With the first two have adapted the Integral lock for mass production. Both have narrowed the portion of the lock bar, and it only meets the tang at a narrow point on the outside of the handle. Benchmade used the full bar lockup on the original Pinnacle, but changed to the modified design to simplify production. Instead of relying on the solid, across the bar lock up, they are using a triangular locking arraignment, with the pivot and stop pin forming two points of the triangle along with the locking bar. Along with the use of less effective steels and spotty heat tempering, not to mention the always-popular fit and finish perception/reality argument, this type of factory modification knocks both of these products out of competition with the Sebenza. You get a less expensive knife that uses compromised design concepts and is of lesser quality and workmanship.
With the second group we have the original, the Sebenza, and its all Ti competitor, the Mission MPK. The MPK is also offered in a steel bladed version, and I have heard good things about the quality of their knives. They use a similar production process as well as materials as Chris Reeve Knives, and the cost for the products are comparative, what Mission offers is a different choice of blade and handle designs. It also suffers from the same limitations of the Sebenza, that it cannot be specifically customized to a purchasers specifications, and the conceived drawback that they are both produced in factory conditions. You get a knife in the same price range of similar quality, but with different specific design, and that suffers from the same drawbacks and limitations.
And lastly we have the custom makers. I am sure there are more to choose from whom make an Integral or frame lock knife (Johnny Stout, R.J. McDonald, and Mike Lamprey are names that I have heard mentioned) but I am not fortunate enough to be familiar with their work. I am including the Bolster lock here for comparison only, but I feel that it is close to qualifying and gives a view of the rest of the field, since I can find so few specific pieces to use in comparison. The only one that I can accurately use as a comparison is the Apogee.
I own three sizes of the Apogee, and on each one of them the fit is superb, the lockup is solid and reliable, and the decorations are beautifully done. Darrel uses top quality materials and the workmanship is excellent, he was a genuine pleasure to do business with, and his time and attention to the project really show in the finished work. Great knives, and worth every penny. I am proud to have them in my collection, and trust them as quality, reliable tools.
You can get a knife in a slightly higher price range, custom made, sole authored and produced down to the heat treatment of the blade, built to your design specifications, using the exact materials you choose and fit and finished to as high a standard as human tolerances allow.
But I also own several styles and both sizes of Sebenza, and on each one of them the fit is superb, the lockup is solid and reliable, and the decorated ones are beautifully done. Chris Reeve Knives uses top quality materials and the workmanship is excellent. Anne Reeve is always a pleasure to do business with, and the time and attention to that the entire staff gives shows in the finished work. Great knives, and worth every penny. I am proud to have them in my collection, and trust them as quality, reliable tools.
So, in our comparative study of study of cost to quality, where does the much debated Sebenza stand?
You cant get a better knife for less money, but you can get one as good to your exact specifications if you want to spend more.
Isnt this where we started?
------------------
James
