Sebenza, I just don't get it!!!

i dont get it either,
but then again i do.
ive handled a few,and wasnt too impressed. the knife is way over hyped.
the way its talked about you would think that it was made of gold.

now dont get me wrong.
the quality is high,and f&f is great. good blade steel,and locks solid.


i just think the way some people hype it,it makes the owner have buyers anxiety afterward,or not buy one at all.
i might buy one sometime,should i find a good deal.(NO e-mails folks)
 
I don't have a Mayo TNT (but intend to rememdy that some day) so I can't compare it to my Sebenza. That said, my Sebenza is my favorite folder, and I have many. To put it into perspective, last weekend I had some house guests from Russia. The topic turned to knives and they wanted to see my collection. Well, I pulled out some (not all) and allowed them to handle the various makes and models. I had Bucks, Benchmades, Kershaws, a custom liner lock, EDI Genesis, and so on. I just laid them out and let the Russians play with them. They made some comments about designs (they were impressed with the Axis lock on the 710), but then one of them picked up the Sebenza and opened it. He stopped talking in English and said something to his friend in Russian, who immediately set down the knife he was holding and took the Sebenza from his friend. Again a few words in Russian passed between them as he manipulated the blade and then one asked me in English if this knife was made in America. I told him yes. He said, "We like to buy." Meaning they wanted to know where to buy one. Even after I told them how much it cost they wanted one, so I took them to the CRK website. Quality is its own language.
 
Originally posted by BlackRazor
...I could pay it off by just eating nothing but ramen noodles for 2 weeks and riding the bus to work... :D
-Robert
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<center>Wow, just how much are bus tickets and Soup where you live? ;)</center>

I have a small flock of Sebenzas and have used all of them at work as well. The large seemed too large at first, especially when I carried the small for two weeks and then switched over to the large for two weeks, I thought heck! this thing is too big, but you can still have a lot of control on the blade.

Others think of it as a grey ****, so be it, I like the boxy shape as it doesn't offer to turn in your hand when under stress as some smooth rounded type handle knives can, or knives with too narrow a handle. Nor does it cut into my hands either, the blade is rounded nicely on the spine so long time work doesn't cut back into your fingers or thumb when pressing against it.

The edge geometry is about near perfect for everyday work, if you were chopping against ropes that would send the knife up against a steel bar, you might opt for a thicker edged blade but then you'd be cussing that the blade then wouldn't cut through the material! So a little common sense when using/choosing a knife is very handy.

Pinnacle is a nice looking knife but it doesn't have the finish that the Sebenza has, in an equation it would appear that they were almost identical, but that extra bit of finish work shows up when you do a direct comparison. I'd go the extra for the Sebenza.

Tom's knives are pretty darn nice as well, handled only two but well made and very sharp indeed.

How much you willing to spend? What do you really want to do with the knife?

Hard questions....and the answers are not always found in others views...

G2
 
The Sebenza isn't for everybody. Some can't get past the price. Other's don't like the handle shape. For some, it's just not pretty enough.

Price is a relative thing. Either you can/will pay it, or you can't/won't.
The handle shape works in ANY grip position. Those who truly use their knives for a variety of tasks will understand this. I think the Sebbie is gorgeous.:)

As far as cutting, it cuts exceptionally well. As good as any, better than most.

And yes, they ARE magic!

Paul
 
You just have to handle a Sebenza for a while to see what the fuss is all about. Yes, the BM 750 Pinnacle is a great knife for the $$, but the difference in an "A/B" comparison is obvious. Of course the price difference is also obvious.
 
Robert, I also have a BM940 and truly LOVE that knife as well, one of the reasons is smoothness of the axis lock but also the design by Warren Osborne is just right for me, but the edge of that doesn't cut, or slice as easily as the Sebenza, it probably could be reprofiled to slice as well but won't be the same. I think some knife makers are almost afraid to make a knife with a thinner edge, William Henry comes close as Matt knows that people want a knife that will cut well and so grinds his blades to a thinner edge profile, but still the Sebenza cuts/slices better.

I have owned LOTS of knives and only a few have come close or beat the Sebenza for ease of cutting/slicing, my Whitewing Warlock, it's blade is CPM-3V and therefore ground very thin, and my Jimmy Fikes Cabin Boy, without a doubt one of the toughest and sharpest knives I've owned...chiseledge and just plain amazing sharp!

G2
 
First. . ."the Sebenza isn't the holy grail of folders !"

Second. . .unless or until you handle one ~ you'll never understand.

Third. . .I truly wish that folks would stop comparing the Benchmade Pinnacle with the Sebenza. . . Yeah yeah yeah. . .they "kinda" look the same. . .and that's where the similarities end !

*Edit Note: Unfortunately (or so I'm told) I'm unable to comment on Mayo TNT's. . . One day I'll grab one ;) !
 
Originally posted by BlackRazor
Gary,

Now that's the kind of response I've been looking for. If the thin edge of the sebenza allows it to be a superior slicer, than so be it. but wouldn't that also make it weaker, i.e. more susceptible to damage from a variety of everyday tasks? Seems other blades are better for every day carry when the task will be unknown. Thanks,

-robert
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Ahh that's the deal though, Chris has the bevel pretty wide and narrow angled so there is still some meat behind the edge, yet the Shoulders of the bevel are rounded so as not to hinder the knife as it cuts through material...

Here is an easy test, take an old paperback book, say about 3/4" thick or so, try push cutting down through the book...some knives will NOT go through hardly a few pages, yet they will shave hair off your arm! Now the knife that does this deal the BEST of any I've had, barring the one I made...;), is that Jimmy Fikes Cabin Boy, Chisel edged, and the main edge is also convexed on the one side so there is a bit of meat behind the edge for strength, great knife. The one I made was also a chiseledge with an 11 1/2" blade, very keen knife!

Robert, I think we are getting closer all the time, enjoy your search, I like the plain jane Sebenza but the wood inlays are great as well!
(I held off getting a decorated but traded into one, just to have for the collection, since the surface is more polished I don't take that one to work, but the wood inlay I USE)

G2
 
BlackRazor -- I joined the forums in early February this year. I'd been an avid reader of knive magazines for nearly 2 years by that time. I hadn't noticed any CRK ads, or read/heard anything about Sebenzas when I joined.

For over 3 months, I was in the camp/position you seem to find yourself in. If I was not the originator -- I think I am -- I was certainly one of the earliest users of the term grey ****. I just couldn't believe that any manufactured folder could be that great. I thought they were fairly ugly. The handle outline is obviously not very ergonomic. I didn't have any blades shaped like the Sebbie's, so couldn't really comment on that issue.

I had some money come in the middle of or late May. With that money, I ordered a Spyderco Wegner, a CRKT S-2 (absolutely convinced that "my" company's titanium-handled, frame lock had to really be as good as the Sebenza could possibly be. I also ordered the Spyderco Calypso Jr, primarily because of posts by Joe Talmadge who said it was in a class of its own for cutting ability with the VG-10 steel. Those knives had not arrived at the time I attended the knife show in Tacoma.

Surprising myself totally, I bought a used Sebenza at that show. I loved the feeling of the pivot when I cycled it. The handle felt a bit uncomfortable to me, but it wasn't painful or anything like that to grip it. I was really surprised at the texture of the Sebenza handles. Somehow, they made metal have an almost velvety feel. Moreover, that seems to help one's grip also.

My knife didn't have the little wrench in it that come with Sebenzas. I mentioned this on the Reeve forum. Anne Reeve communicated with me asking for my address, and sent me one. Then, early last week, somehow the screw that holds the anodized spacer disappeared. I haven't carried the Sebbie for a week. Felt naked. Got the screw yesterday, and will put it in this evening.

When I bought the Sebenza, I still thought it was pretty ugly. I felt that every folder I owned had better ergonomics. But, strangely, it began to feel more and more comfortable in my hand. From the first moment I saw it, I loved the stone washed blade. To shorten this up some, I couldn't bear to sell the knife. I doubt I ever will.

Even tho I am not a heavy or hard user of my knives, I have no doubts that my Sebenza could take virtually anything dished out for it. I still feel that incredible smoothness of the pivot bearing. It somehow no longer looks so ugly to me. If I were faced with the choice of one folder for survival, I'm not sure if I'd choose the Sebenza, my Wegner, or my Outdoor Edge Magna, aluminum handled. I feel all 3 are excellent knives, and able to handle tough chores. The two less expensive knives have thicker blades. The AUS8 in the Magna would be easier to sharpen in the wilderness than the other 2 steels.

To attempt to sum this up, after owning the Sebenza for nearly 3 months, and having read a lot more about them in the CR forum here, I am convinced that I have one of the most precisely made folders to be found anywhere. Two many people keep saying that they find greater precision in the Sebenza than they do in customs costing far more, for me to ignore them. It now feels very comfortable in my hand. I like it's appearance much better -- why, I cannot say. I don't think it is the insecurity someone mentioned. I never have sold any of my knives. I have traded one that simply did not fit my hand. The other person initiated the trade for a knife much more expensive than my own. I buy knives because I like them. Usually, I grow to love them. That has happened with my Sebenza.

I do agree that a few minutes of handling a Sebenza in a store or at a knife show, isn't going to really display all the good things about the knife. It takes use and carrying it to accomplish that, IMO.

I'd suggest you look for a used one. You should be able to save quite a bit over retail, and should be able to resell for very close to what you paid for it.
 
Bugs, people have been using that vile expression before it was ever bandied about on the Internet.

You know what I don’t get? Penelope Cruz. Way skinny, funny nose, bad voice and not the most skilled thespian current en vogue. Nice hair, though, but I still don’t see why she has gained popularity as a sex symbol. Did you see Blow? Shrill and muddled performance, interesting combination but not effective. Nicole Kidman, now you’re talking. Truly classic beauty and acting skills to boot, she was chilling in To Die For and even better in Malice.

I don’t have much to add to the topic at hand except to take issue with the idea that many owners of the Sebenza are caught up in “hype” and end up keeping and defending a knife they don’t truly love because of the money spent on it. This argument simply doesn’t hold water when applied to the Sebenza, as it is one production knife that keeps a significant percent of its original MSRP when resold in like new condition. If you find you don’t like the knife there really is no motivation to keep it when selling it is so easy.
 
James,

While I am the very happy owner of a large Sebenza, (10/98), I must tell you that I am posting in this thread only to state that I am in complete accord with your Cruz/Kidman assessment. I was saying the same to my wife just the other day.

You sir, are to be commended for your keen observation. ;)
 
Blues, thank you for the kind words. You are to be coplimented on having your good taste extend beyond the cutlery field :)
 
I would like a Sebenza sometime, a decorated one, but probably just for show.
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I can just barely see how someone would buy a decorated Sebbie and keep it "just for show". For the money, there are showier pieces for sure. The Sebbie is a very precise mechanical piece of work, consisting of a very solid lockup and a very good heat treat on a balanced piece of stainless tool steel... it begs to be carried and used, IMO. Even the fancy ones (well, short of maybe the gold coin inlaid ones...)

I carry and use both of my woodies and my mokume inlay... my own cooking, and all.

(Is "showier" a word?) :confused:
 
Carry my Sebenza every day at work. Great knife. Others have said all I can say and more.

I'm just waiting on my Mayo TNT to see what all that "fuss" is about:D

Can it be better than a Sebenza, I'm dying to find out!
 
Originally posted by BlackRazor
Is it the solid titanium handle with integral lock, because the BM pinnacle has that.
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Titanium is just part of it, makes it relatively weight efficient. It is also the precision that the handle & lock possess when fitted together. There are very very few knives at twice or five times the price that are as precision fitted.

Originally posted by BlackRazor
Maybe it's the BG-42 steel??? Is this stuff really that much better than ATS-34/154CM??? Can it cut through a solid block of marble and shave afterwards?
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BG-42 is incrementally better than ATS34, but not dramatically better. Tougher at a given Rc, so Reeve can do Rc60 in BG-42 whereas for same toughness (resistance to edge chipping) he'd have to do Rc58 or 59 in ATS34. And all else being the proverbial equal, hardness translates into edge retention (hardness is the primary factor in edge retention).

BG-42 has a finer grain structure (vanadium content), that helps toughness, but vanadium carbides also help abrasion/wear resistance (secondary edge retention benefits from hard carbides)... and fine grain is a bit easier to sharpen at a given Rc, and can take a finer, more polished edge at the margins also, if that mattes to you. Nothing dramatic, just incremental improvement in all traits over ATS-34.

Marble and shaving. I'm thinking chisel of tungsten carbide.

Originally posted by BlackRazor
Maybe it's the fit and finish... but I've seen plenty of folders with extra smooth actions and super tight lock ups... any BM axis lock comes to mind. So please, what's the big deal?!!
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Check the Sebbie's wobble....zero. Check all the radiused edges, from handle to spine. Action is plenty smooth, many are however. Check the precision machining on the thumb stud. It has bite for opening but isn't overly sharp or abrasive on your hand/thumb.

Originally posted by BlackRazor
If someone could convince me why these knives are so great, I'd go out and buy one tomorrow.
Click to expand...

A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still.

Consider buying a Sebbie used so your resale risk is low, or handle one before you buy. Convince yourself, that is your job, not mine/ours. There is plenty of "meat" out there if you use the search engine...not just "yeah, it's great" threads.

It depends on your mindset:
1. Some people appreciate precision machining, precision products. Products that inspire pride of ownership and sense of satisfaction. I really dig my nice folders, even though I have not one single friend or work colleague that appreciates this stuff like I do. I don't need their reinforcement. It's for me.

2. Others buy Timex and are content. They feel like they know the time accurately for a good price. And they are right, of course...they do.

The BM Pinnacle is about 70% of the performance for about 30% of the price. The Pinnacle offers higher performance/price ratio than does the Sebbie. It's a Seiko vs. Breitling debate kinda thing.
 
i have a seb, the larger one, and its ok but 'the holy grail'? no, imho - but they are a cool knife........


sifu
 
I am now going to post the first negative thing I have ever said about the seby...excuse me Chris!! All this talk about how perfect everything is........well of course....its made on a cnc, it cant be any other way!! :(
 
I've handled Sebenza's and Benchmade Axis locks (mostly the 710) and for some inexplicable reason do not own either at the moment, so I am not speaking really about either knife per say. However, as with anything else, precision in manufacturing is not just about the equipment. It is alot about how you use the equipment, and how you design the equipment to give you what you need. Giving me a mill doesn't make me a machinist.

Certainly it is the case that machines can repeat something more accurately than a person can, but machines have no way of compensating for something not being exactly right. When Tom makes TnT folders, I'm sure that two of the same models are as alike as two Sebenza's, but each fits perfectly, because he can compensate for the variation in the process of making them. In the case of a CNC machine there isn't really any way to do that with volume production, so you are super dependant on designing the product and fixturing it to give you the precision needed.

Personally, while I find the Axis lock knives quite interesting and practical the fit and finish, with all of the details, to me as below the level of Microtech (compared to their early offerings, I haven't really looked at their stuff recently) which is a bit below the level of the Sebenza's I've handled.

Make no mistake, a CNC handled by a master machinist can indeed provide consistent precision that outstrips a hand craftsman, but there is a reason why they call them "master" machinists.
 
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