Sebenza in general

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Hoodoo:
I'm not sure that mass production really applies here. What do you mean by that and at what point does a knife fit the description of being mass-produced?

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IMHO, mass production refers, in this case or any other, to the development of an assembly line type fabrication of a single article. The shop produces hundreds of the same item per year. The knives are produced in repetitive fashion, on a small assembly line, with some automatically manufactured parts, to the tune of hundreds of identical pieces per year. That's mass production.

It's unfortunate that people feel compelled to assign a value to definitions. Definitions, ultimately, serve the producer and the consumer. If they are applied without connotation, or judgement, they can be used appropriately, and we all know what it is that we hold in our hands, or what we are spending our money on. It is when judgement enters the equation that people try to blur the lines, feeling that if they can just put a toe over the line, they can be somehow "better".

I think that somewhere along the line, many of us are losing sight of the fact that these are just words. Some are more difficult to pin down than others, like the essence of "custom", as in Para's definition, or just how much tool usage can be allowed before a knife is no longer "handmade". What is important is that whatever term we use, we use it without judgement or inference, and apply it consistently and honestly, trying to find the term which best applies, rather than the term that imparts a desired quality.
 
OwenM,

I can only hope you're enjoying your small Sebenza as much as I am mine. I honestly thought I was over liner-locking folders, but this one really defines the term.

Professor.
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Professor:

I honestly thought I was over liner-locking folders, but this one really defines the term.
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Anyone else find it ironic that a Professor would use an integral frame-lock folder to define the term "liner-lock"?

Yet another reason why we should always be sure to understand the terms we're using before we start tossing them around.
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If you try being a smart-ass, but you're not smart...

[This message has been edited by Brian_Turner (edited 02-06-2001).]
 
Professor,
I'm enjoying it immensely. It became an instant favorite, and is the nicest knife I own, at the moment. My first integral lock. When my Apogee gets here in a couple of weeks, that'll make two, and I'll have quite the carry combo.
One big folder with a recurve for the heavy duty stuff (710HS filling that role now), and one smaller one (the Seb) for the smaller jobs. Wonder if I can justify a "medium", next? I'm sure I can talk myself into it. Oops, forgot, I already did
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That one's a few months further down the road, though. I'm addicted. This knife stuff sure is habit-forming (ain't cheap, either).
 
They are not bad at all!

W.A.

------------------
"To strive to seek to find and not to yield"
Tennyson
Ranger motto

A few useful details on UK laws and some nice reviews!
http://members.aol.com/knivesuk/
Certified steel snob!
 
As are we all, Professor. As are we all.

Unfortunately, idiocy is an affliction that we all share, to varying degrees, and in varying flavors. Personally, I vacillate between being a drooling, babbling idiot, and when ours takes time off, I serve as a village idiot.

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Right back atcha!
 
No, no, no! You should not start out acquiring knives with a Sebenza. You first have to spend lots of money buying cheaper stuff that you will later wish you hadn't bought and work your way up to the Sebenza purchase. It'll make the climax more enjoyable. (It's similar to that pre-mature ej...thingy.
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).

Here's the most important part: disregard the above recommendation and go for it if you can afford it. It could be the last knife you will ever need--at least until next week.
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Brian:
What about the "custom maker" that has most of the parts of his/her knives made by other people and he/she puts the knife together and sharpens the blade? I had one such maker claim that he couldn't make me a left hand frame lock because his supplier didn't have the ability to make a left hand frame. You make a few very good points. Market demand determines the price of goods and services. If less people bought Sebenzas because they felt that they were too expensive (a relative term), then CRK would lower the price or go out of business. What something is worth is a personal issue. It seems that relatively speaking, the Sebenza is under priced. I make this statement due to the fact that CRK sells everything that they "produce" and they are backordered on some models for up to a year. Chris was very up front when last year he raised his prices. He said he raised his prices because he was so flooded with orders. While some individuals feel that the Sebenza is over priced, the market seems to be gobbling them up. I've seen more than one forumite cry "oh, the Sebenza is so over priced". But when they handle one they change their tune. I happen to like the Sebenza and own several, much to the consternation of my better half. To me, it's worth it. For others it's not. And that is the nature of a capitalistic economy. No one here is right or wrong, we just have different priorities.
 
Hold one, buy one.

Simple formular.
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Worth it to me, YES, to most KnifeKnuts? Probably not.

It is very expensive, but very...I don't know! Good, yes good.

If I ever had to carry and own just one knife (that I had), it would be my Sebenza, no doubt about it. If just one knife in my collection I could keep, it would be that knife!

W.A.

------------------
"To strive to seek to find and not to yield"
Tennyson
Ranger motto

A few useful details on UK laws and some nice reviews!
http://members.aol.com/knivesuk/
Certified steel snob!
 
ScottDog, according to the rules of the Knifemakers Guild, the maker you describe is Not producing custom knives. No big deal unless he is actually a member of the Guild. A lot of good knifemakers are not.

As long as the maker is honest and forthcoming about How he makes his knives, I think they can do anything they want: buying parts from others, and contracting for laser cutting, CNC work, and heat-treating. The Guild is still wrestling with some of these issues.

You are completely correct about everyone here having different priorities. To me, the Sebenza is too expensive for a production knife. And yes, I have handled several. But lots of people are buying them at the prices charged. Something is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it. I am not willing to pay $300 for a plain sebenza, there are a lot of other fine knives I would rather have for that amount of money. But that does not mean that I think the Sebenza is a poor knife. It is not. It is just Not for Me.

Paracelsus

 
Production, custom... I couldn't care less
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It's far and away the best knife I have found. And in defense of its pricing, who else makes a knife this "tight" in the "production" arena? MT's? BM's? None come close to CR's regularity, consistency and overall precision. For those of use who have taken all of our knives apart, we quickly realize that the CR surpasses them all when it comes part-to-part tolerances, so much so that the Sebenza is tough to pull apart and put back together. Someone once described it as a "puzzle from the God's". (Professor?)
My point is that a dollar for dollar "precision comparison" across the different makers puts the Seb's pricing about right... and I'm not even taking into consideration that fantastic BG-42 blade.

Besides, whats 350 bucks for something that you will carry everyday, and It still outlive you... its a bargain if you ask me.

The one thing I haven't seen anyone mention yet is what this knife will do to your thumb. In short, it will make your thumb hurt like hell for the first day or two because of its very stiff lock... but this goes away quickly enough as your thumb toughens up and you develop a technique for it.

I personally think its a great looking knife, a look that rightfully instills strength and trust.
My only gripe might be the blade to handle ratio...

I also think it carries very well considering its size and weight... nice and low and the new pocket clip is fantastic.

Below is my daily carry, I recently took it apart and using one of those gritty rubber Dremel disks/wheel things (about 1/8" thick and about the size of a quarter), I gave it a really nice hand rubbed satin finish that took on a silver-ish gray tone - best depicted by the clip in this picture (the whole handle looks like the clip in person).
I had a few scuffs in the factory blasted finish... all gone now
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The smoother, non-abrasive edges don't eat my jeans anymore either.
If you do repeat this, DO NOT use the Dremel tool
seb_rb_4.jpg


[This message has been edited by Dashunde (edited 02-09-2001).]
 
Here is a selection of 'production' knives:

<A HREF="http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=306668&a=2279510&p=40598336&Sequence=0&res=high" TARGET=_blank>
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For those bandwidth hogs who don't know how to post thumbnails, go to the Custom Knife Forum which is on this General Forum. There is an explanation, and a sample posting thread. It is truly simple; if a dolt such as I can do it, you can do it also.

Walt
 
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