Secondary price markup on the 560CBCF....Where is it...

[jhyde7585]

Yes it takes two of the good guys right out of the game, myself and Blade HQ.

Both of which have been incredibly good whenever I purchase from them.

The adjustment of a price by a dealer within a few bucks, especially at this price level, is quite understandable. They need to make money, selling knives isn't just to make people happy

 

[FCM415]

Yes it takes two of the good guys right out of the game, myself and Blade HQ.

Nah, you will never be out of the game

Speaking for myself, I was ready to order two from you if you let me. Offered to pay up front back in August

 

[DapperDan]

You are mad that not all dealers are selling at absolute MAP or lower?

I guess I am

So I guess you are no longer my customer, that is sad.

I didn't realize you were selling them for 360. I did not have you in mind when I said "I will not buy from those 2 in the future" Owning the 0560 and 0561 which I like a lot, the 0560CBCF is not worth 360 to 425 to me. I would however bite on 340. Sorry if I hurt your feeling. You and I have had a bit of a rough road from the beginning,out of the 30 of so knives I own I think I've only bought 3 from you. If we don't do business in the future no biggie, but again that was not the intent of my original post.

$360 for that knife is a good price. If those are your standards you may run out of dealers. I would have been hesitant and a little disappointed if I had to pay $425, but that is MSRP and it would have been fair.

Everyone has their opinion. We just don't share the same one. And it will take a long time to run out of dealers. I don't know if you realize it but there are a lot of them out there and guess what, they ALL want my money.

Yes it takes two of the good guys right out of the game, myself and Blade HQ.

Again don't take it personal. I wasn't referring to you. I check prices from numerous dealers and buy from who has the best price.That is the extent of my loyalty to a dealer. There are just a couple of dealers on here that rub me the wrong way and won't deal with them in the future and it's not just because of their current price on the 0560CBCF. I don't know why but you seem to go out of your way to get your feeling hurt. Stop it.

 

[BobSig]

sorry if that came off rude not what i meant.....its just if u dont like price dont buy it. life is full of stuff like this its just way it is.....the people who cant afford to feed there kids dont complain so much. take a minute and look at bigger picture in the world. wish every one the best.....
P.S. if u dont like way dave and blade hq do things than maybe u need to look with in urself they are the good guys

I dont think it came at rude, just to the point. Might be a fine line, but it is appreciated too.

Everyone has their opinion. We just don't share the same one. And it will take a long time to run out of dealers. I don't know if you realize it but there are a lot of them out there and guess what, they ALL want my money.

Ya, Im sure they would take my money too. My opinion came from many times missing out on knives because I thought "Thats too much." Many of those I have never had the chance to buy again, some I found later and prices multiple times what I could have bought. When this knife came up, I grabbed it when I could. Especially with the route the TiLT took and the 0777. I am a bit paranoid, but the way these have been selling I think my paranoia isnt unfounded.

 

[RamZar]

Owning the 0560 and 0561 which I like a lot, the 0560CBCF is not worth 360 to 425 to me. I would however bite on 340.

Personally, this does not compute for a $20 difference for something that down the road could cost a lot more.

The argument doesn't hold logically but may sway others from a purely ideological or philosophical standpoint. It reminds me of people giving fewer rating stars for eBooks not on the merits of the book itself but arguing that eBooks should cost less than printed books and thus we should not support such pricing policies. Therefore, punishing the author for what the publisher chooses to charge!

The somewhat sour issue with the 0560CBCF has become profiteering to the nth degree by individuals and dealers but I think it's more the nature of the beast and trying to move an immovable object.

To be clear, in no way is the great knife nor ZT at fault in any of this. Sure, it'd be nice if all true fans of the quality and craftsmanship of the ZT knives could afford one at a reasonable price. Unfortunately, that may be too idealistic.

 

[FCM415]

Here is my take,

If a guy off the street saw my cbcf and offered me $800 for it, sure I probably would sell it to him. Making a profit isn't the concern here. Knives like this go up in price most of the time. There are just those who find it mildly annoying that some acquire these knives without never intending to keep it, buying multiples just to post it on ebay and the boards the day they receive it ready to take advantage of the situation. We're seeing $800 prices and it just came out last week, even you guys on this thread who are on the other side of this discussion should see the absurdness in that. In time, who knows the prices the cbcf will command, but at this point in time, while the knife is still pumping out from legit dealers, it's a bit disheartening to see that there are genuine ZT fans out there that are priced out while others intend to flip it to the guy ZT intended these for. The cbcf, ZT has said was created as a thank you piece to their loyal customers. At this time, $500-$600 while high is "reasonable" to flip, but $800? That's a slap in the face... Quoting ZT: "The 0560cbcf because you've earned it". No one here is against free market, no need to bring it up every time. It's also a free country and people will do as they please including pay these prices because it is worth it to them. It's nothing new, it will continue and has beaten to death over the years yada yada but it is still worth mentioning. I bought mine at GREAT prices, I shouldn't need to rant because "I've got mine"... But I have been on the other side of the fence before, the guy who missed out, we can't all win every time but the $800 price tag by some, even a supposed dealer right off the bat has left a bad taste in my mouth...

I was just talking to myself while in a late night Bourbon induced rant, don't mind me. I'll type less tomorrow.

 

[DapperDan]

Personally, this does not compute for a $20 difference for something that down the road could cost a lot more.

20 dollars is 20 dollars. 380 is only 20 more than 360. 400 is only 20 more than 380. 420 is only 20 more than 400.See where I'm going with this. Oh and IBTL.

 

[TEFL0N_D0N_81]

I agree with you 100%. I could have bought one from dealers on here at 425 and 360 but flat out refuse to buy at those prices. Also I will never buy anything from those dealers in the future. They are off my dealer list.

Oh well, more for us then.

 

[TotalDbag]

So, titanium, carbon fiber, S110V steel, great f&f, best warranty out there, is not worth $360?? Then what is worth 360?

 

[TEFL0N_D0N_81]

So, titanium, carbon fiber, S110V steel, great f&f, best warranty out there, is not worth $360?? Then what is worth 360?

+1. Also, don't forget some of the additional upgrades I mentioned in another post. The lockbar geometry has been revised in addition to cutout being raised. These revisions cost them money as well.

 

[sticktodrum]

So I guess you are no longer my customer, that is sad.

Sad for him. I'll make up for his absence.

ZT has said hat this knife was made out of appreciation for their customers. Free market or not, buying it strictly to flip on ebay is a little classless,

Exactly. I posted similarly about it. It's pretty understood about all this free market conjecture, but the issue has nothing to do with that. It's a breach of taste, and shows a mark of real character.

Yes it takes two of the good guys right out of the game, myself and Blade HQ.

I'm sure neither you nor BHQ will feel much impact from losing one customer. There are other customers who will more than make up the loss, myself being one of them.

Yup, and in a few months when the price to get one is significantly higher, most of these same people will wish they bought it at these "ridiculous" prices and will be bitching about how much they have gone up and why they can't get them at MSRP.

Gotta love the community!

I could have bought one from dealers on here at 360 but flat out refuse to buy at those prices. Also I will never buy anything from those dealers in the future.

I would however bite on 340.

Well that says plenty.

And it will take a long time to run out of dealers. I don't know if you realize it but there are a lot of them out there and guess what, they ALL want my money.

I know of a couple who would forego your money just to avoid dealing with a disgruntled customer. Happens more than you think.

20 dollars is 20 dollars. 380 is only 20 more than 360. 400 is only 20 more than 380. 420 is only 20 more than 400.See where I'm going with this. Oh and IBTL.

Cute, but anyone can play this game. $380 was MAP, and $400 is only $20 more than MAP, both of which are under MSRP. You want to be unrealistic and moody, then sure I can see where you're going with it. Playing with numbers doesn't do anyone any good, most people here can do math.

I don't know why but you seem to go out of your way to get your feeling hurt. Stop it.

I don't know why but you seem to go out of your way to be rude to people. Stop it.

So, titanium, carbon fiber, S110V steel, great f&f, best warranty out there, is not worth $360?? Then what is worth 360?

The opportunity to own more than one and still have them when they're impossible to find.

 

[JuJu-]

If one wishes to complain about pricing below msrp then one should only have to say it once. My ears were open the first time. Continuing to complain makes me think they want everything for nothing.

 

[kershawguy]

I don't know why but you seem to go out of your way to get your feeling hurt. Stop it.

Doesn't seem that I had to go far at all Dan.

 

[ToxicBot11]

One just popped up in the exchange.

 

[jimmer_5]

I'm going to re-post some information that I put up in one of the other multiple threads that discussed this same topic. That thread got closed. Let's all take a step back and relax. We are all entitled to our opinion of what an item is worth - we aren't all going to agree on this, but let's try to keep the debate civil. Dealers choose what kind of markup they are comfortable with and the free market will generally decide what people are willing to pay. We've all seen overpirced items on eBay and the like that sit there for months and months because the seller chose to price the item higher than the market would bear.

I am just as much of a cheapskate as anyone, but sometimes you will end up paying more for a special item. It's just the way it is. If you don't see a carbon fiber handle, special 3D machining, and a composite S110V blade as being worth an extra $100-$125, you're in for a lot of disappointment as a knife collector. Make comparisons with a few US made framelocks. Take a look at what is being charged for special make-ups. I think you'll find that the 0560CBCF is quite reasonably priced. It may not represent a good value to you (and I respect that), but it's not a bad deal for the current market.


Anyhow, here is the info I posted before - some of the XM-18 comparisons are a little out of context for this conversation, but bear with me:


1. Unless you're LEO/FIRE/EMS/Military or travel to a knife show, you're not likely to buy an XM-18 for the $385 MSRP. Secondary market for a G-10 handled XM is generally $500 and up. Hell, we should be thanking Rick for keeping his price the same for this long - he could easily get more money for an XM.

2. $425 is our MSRP for the 0560CBCF. Most dealers don't charge full MSRP, but it's not what I would consider gouging. It's not uncommon to see a limited edition piece go for MSRP. If dealers offer better pricing, that's awesome - as a buyer, I love it. But it can't always be the expectation.

3. In addition, the XM-18 comparison doesn't work because this is not a standard issue 0560. If you add a Carbon Fiber scale to an XM-18, the price goes up $100. Rick doesn't generally do special run steels, but what do you think adding an S110V blade to an XM-18 would do to the price?

4. Now look at the MSRP of a standard 0560 versus the 0560 CBCF - $325 for the standard and $425 for the CBCF. That's only a $100 upcharge.

5. And what do you get for that $100?
- A carbon fiber scale with smooth texture - 10 times more material cost, three times the machining time for a standard 0560 scale, and a material that eats carbide cutters for breakfast.
- A smooth Titanium scale that takes three times as long to machine as the standard textured 0560 scale.
- A composite blade with S110V cutting edge and cool patterned look. More cost, more parts, and more trouble to make than a solid Elmax blade.

The price of this product went up because it costs more to make it. And it didn't go up enough either. Even at MSRP, this knife is not a bad deal.


- Jim

 

[RamZar]

Now look at the MSRP of a standard 0560 versus the 0560 CBCF - $325 for the standard and $425 for the CBCF. That's only a $100 upcharge.

And what do you get for that $100?
- A carbon fiber scale with smooth texture - 10 times more material cost, three times the machining time for a standard 0560 scale, and a material that eats carbide cutters for breakfast.
- A smooth Titanium scale that takes three times as long to machine as the standard textured 0560 scale.
- A composite blade with S110V cutting edge and cool patterned look. More cost, more parts, and more trouble to make than a solid Elmax blade.

Additionally, just to be fair, I don't think you can compare the current street price of a 0560CBCF to the 0560/0561 beyond the $100 MSRP difference simply because the 0560CBCF is a limited edition knife and highly sought after.

If I got my 0561 for $220 and you add $80 (80% of $100) to that it doesn't mean that I should pay no more than $300 for a 0560CBCF!

 

[DapperDan]

Doesn't seem that I had to go far at all Dan.

I have no idea what that means. You getting all defensive about me talking about 2 dealers I would not buy from and for some reason you equate that to mean you and BladeHQ. Again I was NOT referring to you or BladeHQ. Good Lord. Take a pill and relax.

 

[TX180SX]

I have no idea what that means. You getting all defensive about me talking about 2 dealers I would not buy from and for some reason you equate that to mean you and BladeHQ. Again I was NOT referring to you or BladeHQ. Good Lord. Take a pill and relax.

Your comments were directly aimed at him, his pricing falls within your complaint. you may not be specific with which dealers you are talking about, but we can all see it's more than the 2 you are talking about. Either way it seems alot of you are getting a little too emotional with this knife buying.

 

[jimmer_5]

Additionally, just to be fair, I don't think you can compare the current street price of a 0560CBCF to the 0560/0561 beyond the $100 MSRP difference simply because the 0560CBCF is a limited edition knife and highly sought after.

If I got my 0561 for $220 and you add $80 (80% of $100) to that it doesn't mean that I should pay no more than $300 for a 0560CBCF!

I probably should have clarified - I was referring to MSRP prices ($325 vs. $425) and MAP prices ($260 vs $340) Street price is a whole other matter. My basic point is that you're getting quite a bit for your extra hundred bucks.

By the way, MSRP means "manufacturer's suggested retail price" and MAP means "minimum advertised price".

I have no idea what that means. You getting all defensive about me talking about 2 dealers I would not buy from and for some reason you equate that to mean you and BladeHQ. Again I was NOT referring to you or BladeHQ. Good Lord. Take a pill and relax.

Your comments were directly aimed at him, his pricing falls within your complaint. you may not be specific with which dealers you are talking about, but we can all see it's more than the 2 you are talking about. Either way it seems alot of you are getting a little too emotional with this knife buying.

Gentlemen - please drop it now. I won't ask you to shake hands, but you've both expressed your opinions. No need to continue.

 

[RamZar]

I probably should have clarified - I was referring to MSRP prices ($325 vs. $425) and MAP prices ($260 vs $340) Street price is a whole other matter. My basic point is that you're getting quite a bit for your extra hundred bucks.

By the way, MSRP means "manufacturer's suggested retail price" and MAP means "minimum advertised price".

Of course.

What I'm driving at is that you can't take the various MSRP / MAP / Street / Online / Secondary pricing formulae of a regular production ZT 0560 and apply it to a limited edition / production 0560CBCF using premium-priced material and manufacturing processes.