Security in the timber

kdstrick said:
Here is an interesting link. It is a compilation of news stories where armed citizens have been forced to defend themselves. http://www.nraila.org/ArmedCitizen/Default.aspx
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I wonder if there are any sites sharing stories of when armed citizens make irrepairable mistakes by reaching for their firearm instead of properly assessing a particular situation..... and I wonder what the ratio is between the two.
 
I usually have these items on me when I'm not at work ;)
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But it depends on the distance I want to engage :D
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Oh I almost forgot my fixed blade :p
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for protection, since i do not curently have a hand gun, i would carry my 18'' ang khola. no one is going to mess with a 6 foot 3 , khuk weilding, rugged looking hiker because they probably dont want 2.5 pounds of nepalese forged steel though there chest. :D
but really i am not to worried about other people in the woods coming after me.

2503722796_5d14359bdb.jpg
 
Magnussen said:
I wonder if there are any sites sharing stories of when armed citizens make irrepairable mistakes by reaching for their firearm instead of properly assessing a particular situation..... and I wonder what the ratio is between the two.
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A bigger point is, when you are armed you have more options. If you are armed, you can still do anything you would or would not do if you were unarmed. You don't have the same options if you are unarmed.

You're also addressing training and judgement issues. Those come into play whether someone is armed or not.

As far statistics go, you can probably estimate the number you want my the number of dead bodies and severely injured people in the aftermath, which may number in the thousands or even tens of thousands. However, the number of people in the USA who successfully use a firearm to defend themself (usually without firing a shot) is estimated to be between 2 and 3 MILLION per year according to guys like Gary Kleck and John Lott. If you choose not to believe those numbers, the FBI makes the same estimate as between 800,000 and two million occurences each year in the US. People who can't accept those numbers don't consider that successful self-defense incidents almost never get reported by the media even when they are on the public record (i.e. police reports). The newspapers and tv media's respective agendae are not compatible with such stories.

Regardless of whose numbers you believe (FBO or Kleck, et al), the number of successful defenses dwarfs all of the failures and potential failures combined.
 
So somewhere between one half and one percent of the population. What's the raw data? does this include off or even on duty police? which of these people have recurrent issues or high risk situations (such as armed guards, or process servers)? And how many are in the woods- since that's the topic.

We've come back to the idea that one MUST HAVE A GUN, before any other consideration may be made. And I simply don't agree with that. I've explained some of why, and I suppose it doesn't really matter. I just don't like being called unprepared or irresponsible simply because I make educated decisions with awareness of my environment.
 
Magnussen said:
I wonder if there are any sites sharing stories of when armed citizens make irrepairable mistakes by reaching for their firearm instead of properly assessing a particular situation..... and I wonder what the ratio is between the two.
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In Florida CWP holders commit less crimes than the cops so I suspect the ratio of gunowners overreacting is very very small.

I've had my permit for 21 years now and was just renewed for an additional 7.
Never drew down by accident or on an innocent person once.
If I had I wouldn't be getting renewed.
The Government is silly like that.
 
koyote said:
So somewhere between one half and one percent of the population. What's the raw data? does this include off or even on duty police? which of these people have recurrent issues or high risk situations (such as armed guards, or process servers)? And how many are in the woods- since that's the topic.

We've come back to the idea that one MUST HAVE A GUN, before any other consideration may be made. And I simply don't agree with that. I've explained some of why, and I suppose it doesn't really matter. I just don't like being called unprepared or irresponsible simply because I make educated decisions with awareness of my environment.
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People "Sheepdogs" say you need a gun to stop the armed wolves from preying on the sheep."Innocent women and Children"
You may not need a gun to protect yourself but you are not going to stop a spree shooting or assorted violent armed felonies unarmed.
I don't care how tough or smart you are.

Criminals run in packs.
Armed packs.
To make a difference you need a proper weapon and the training and temperment to use it.

First rule of gun fighting.
Have a gun.
 
BarberFobic1992 said:
for protection, since i do not curently have a hand gun, i would carry my 18'' ang khola. no one is going to mess with a 6 foot 3 , khuk weilding, rugged looking hiker because they probably dont want 2.5 pounds of nepalese forged steel though there chest. :D
but really i am not to worried about other people in the woods coming after me.

2503722796_5d14359bdb.jpg
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If you have a pretty girlfriend and 3 or 4 men with guns decide they'll take her from you.
Alone in the woods is a bad place to find out why range,distance and cover are so important.

If you're going to use a knife against several armed men,a khukuri is the way to go.
I have about 10.

It's hard to beat a determined shooter.
They'll get the drop on you if they can and aren't worried about laws,lawyers or consequences.
You need to be meaner then they are.
I believe in the mindset I'd rather die fighting than on my knees.
 
Hrm.

Whatever. I own, carry, and am willing to use firearms. I'm also very aware of my surroundings and am not scared to leave the house without one.

This is getting to whine and cheese territory, I think I'm done with the thread.

i'd be interested in finding out how many gun vs. gun battles with spree shootings happen in the woods. the nra website show 2 man vs. man situations since 1974 under the search term "camping" adding in hiking I see a few gun versus assailant's knife.

one of these - one - looked unavoidable.

Yeah, i'd hate to be that one, but the picutre being paiinted is a lot worse than anything I can find. (and we have a gun in camp when car camping anyhow.)
 
I guess we've strayed from Scott's original question......

"What would you carry to feel more secure against two legged predators while out in the timber?"

The "would" in that statement is alot different than a "do". Even though I do not carry a firearm, I suppose a small, light semi-auto would fit the bill if I was worried about two-legged predators. I'm glad I live in an area where I do not have to worry about such things.

Sorry for getting into an ethics debate on gun carry... it was unintentional...

Rick
 
InfidelShootist said:
If you have a pretty girlfriend and 3 or 4 men with guns decide they'll take her from you.
Alone in the woods is a bad place to find out why range,distance and cover are so important.

If you're going to use a knife against several armed men,a khukuri is the way to go.
I have about 10.

It's hard to beat a determined shooter.
They'll get the drop on you if they can and aren't worried about laws,lawyers or consequences.
You need to be meaner then they are.
I believe in the mindset I'd rather die fighting than on my knees.
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I was kind of kidding, i know it is probably hard to determine my tone through text though. if i were hiking in a state park or somthing though, i highly doubt that a band of armed criminals are going to come after me.
 
Noshtero said:
Come on down to sunny Illinois, one of only two states left that has absolutely zero concealed carry.

I don't even own a gun because I can't take it anywhere lol.

I've never looked into whether or not I can carry it in state/national parks or forrest preserves.
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Buy one and learn to shoot it. IL is not very gun friendly, but other states are.

In fact, you can get a permit to carry thru the mail for a Florida permit, which is recognized by 26 states, even if you're not a FL resident.

Something to consider.
 
I certainly have run into some nasty folks back in the sticks. I'm a fairly large person (230-pounds), better than average condition, and willing and able to defend myself, family, friends, and property if need be. However, I can clearly remember (a challenge these days) when my size and determination was not a deterrent to a couple of foolish gents. Once my unseen handgun dropped into my hand, it was obvious they wanted none of that. They beat feet out of there much to our satisfaction. My wife and young son were with me that day and I don't like to think about what could have and would have happened if I had left the gun at home.

We were back in the Oregon wilderness these last two weeks and I carried a Ruger Vaquero .45 LC in my saddle holster. This area has a good bear and lion population and I prefer my hotly loaded 260 gr. jacketed Bull-X loads to preserve the peace in a night camp with livestock and heavy cooking odors. I also have a number of double action revolvers, single and double action autos that will often go with us if we are camping near a human population.

ruger45lc1ez2.jpg
 
InfidelShootist said:
If you have a pretty girlfriend and 3 or 4 men with guns decide they'll take her from you.
Alone in the woods is a bad place to find out why range,distance and cover are so important.

If you're going to use a knife against several armed men,a khukuri is the way to go.
I have about 10.

It's hard to beat a determined shooter.
They'll get the drop on you if they can and aren't worried about laws,lawyers or consequences.
You need to be meaner then they are.
I believe in the mindset I'd rather die fighting than on my knees.
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sad but true.

ont he topic of wilderness security, pack a couple rattraps and a spool of brown or olive drab thread, (strong polyester thread) . A perimeter tripwire set up witht he thread and tied off tot he rat trap works AMAZINGLY well to alert you to human tresspassers. I've used this setup for years in public campgrounds, and more recently in the woods. If you set it up in fairly far off but around the camp, the perps cant hear the SNAP, but you can and have time to prepare/hide/etc
 
Dannyboy Leather said:
I certainly have run into some nasty folks back in the sticks. I'm a fairly large person (230-pounds), better than average condition, and willing and able to defend myself, family, friends, and property if need be. However, I can clearly remember (a challenge these days) when my size and determination was not a deterrent to a couple of foolish gents. Once my unseen handgun dropped into my hand, it was obvious they wanted none of that. They beat feet out of there much to our satisfaction. My wife and young son were with me that day and I don't like to think about what could have and would have happened if I had left the gun at home.

We were back in the Oregon wilderness these last two weeks and I carried a Ruger Vaquero .45 LC in my saddle holster. This area has a good bear and lion population and I prefer my hotly loaded 260 gr. jacketed Bull-X loads to preserve the peace in a night camp with livestock and heavy cooking odors. I also have a number of double action revolvers, single and double action autos that will often go with us if we are camping near a human population.

ruger45lc1ez2.jpg
Click to expand...

NICE! Very rustic combination dannyboy. Mike Mann knives are top shelf as is Ruger. :thumbup: Thanks for the pic.
Scott
 
Consider that some need not be armed because others are. When I hunted a remote area near the Mexico border I was greeted by billboard- size signs (erected by Immigration and the Forest Service) warning to be cautious because of illegal immigration and drug smuggling activity.

I spoke with a deputy sheriff (on my way out) about the actual risk and he said there was no cause for concern (at least in that area) during hunting seasons. The reason, in his opinion, was that intruders were reluctant to travel in remote areas with armed hunters wandering about, and those few who did avoided hunters altogether.

Consider that, at least in the USA, those bent on harming others can't always know who may be armed. Otherwise it would be "easy pickins" in remote areas with no witnesses and no leo's within miles. So, if one doesn't feel a need to go armed it doesn't necessarily mean that those who do are just carrying dead weight. :)Regards, ss.
 
I hasve a 12 guage that I use for backcountry use. For two and four legged critters. I have been looking at a revolver for some monthes know and I am not sure would a good caliber would be for people, grizz, blackbear, mtnlion, etc. So I was wonderiong if you folks had any experince.
 
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