Selling a knife before you have it from the Maker. What is the rule here?

I consider it to be poor form to be selling a knife on the exchange BEFORE you have taken delivery of the said knife. I mentioned this to the seller and another member said there is no difference between buying from the maker. I beg to differ.

first, the seller is NOT the maker so does not guarantee the knife to be in pristine mint unused and without flaw condition. That is the makers job to do so. THe seller does not know the condition of the knife. I have received custom knives from makers that had to be sent back. It does happen.

Second, most custom makes will NOT take money in advance for a knife but will only receive payment when knife has shipped. ( there are plenty of exceptions to this rule most who are in the hall of shame)

Third I do not think the seller can offer any claim as to when the knife is actually available for delivery, this seller is selling a sword worth $1200 that he has never seen and does not have a firm date of delivery. Its a lot of money. what happens if the sword is flawed and he has spent the money? then what?

Group discuss
 
Seems like it would be awful difficult to sell something a person doesn't even technically own yet... There is no way I would pay someone for a knife that they don't even have.

I would have to agree, that practice would be very bad form IMHO.

And yes, its a completely different thing than buying directly from the maker.

I could be wrong, but it seems like a good way to end up getting burnt.

If seems like a better way would be for a potential buyer to just go directly to the maker, if the person that ordered it decided they didn't want it.
 
Depends on the situation, really. I do think it's poor form to 'flip' a knife you haven't even recieved yet. If you're going to re-sell it for a profit, then yeah, you should probably make sure it's perfect first. However, if you're basically buying the sellers 'spot in line' and taking over the payment as it were, I don't see a problem with it. Could be someone placed an order 5 years ago and lost their job in the meantime and simply don't have the $$ to cover it, and wants to make sure the maker doesn't have to put forth any extra effort to find a buyer? Could be a lot of reasons why it's reasonable.

That said, interfering in someone's for-sale thread when they haven't done anything 'wrong' really, that qualifies as poor form;) (And that's not meant as a personal attack Ren, JMHO and it doesn't mean I think any less of you:foot::D)
 
First - I agree with your assessment of Selling a knife before you actually own it.

Let's look at some of the reasons why the Seller is doing this;

Though financial circumstances may quickly have turned dire for the seller and he/she feels this is a valid recourse. Nope. I feel that the person should "tough it out" until he/she takes delivery and then immediately put the knife on the market.

The Seller has grown tired of waiting for the knife to be completed. In this case the seller is then just "passing the buck" and due to his poor choice of paying a large Deposit or paying in full for the knife he is then possibly passing on that poor choice to the next buyer.

The Seller has had a change of interest. Nope. You ordered the knife and if the Maker is taking THAT long to deliver that you have migrated on to other interests then you should not pass more wait time to another buyer.

Enough of that, we don't know the reason so I was just speculating.

Second -
I do not think the seller can offer any claim as to when the knife is actually available for delivery
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Of all your points this one rings the loudest. The seller cannot know when/if the Maker will ever provide the knife in the condition originally ordered so I feel that he doesn't really have anything to sell - he is actually selling a secondary promise to make the knife.

Though I feel bad for folks who have been put into this predicament I don't think they should pass on their poor choice to someone else.
 
Never sell anything (knife, car, used dental floss) that you do not have in your hands or withing sight or at the very least within walking distance at the exact second that you post it for sale. Period. End of store.

Never buy from anyone who doesn't have the item in hand either.

There certainly are scammers out there, but too many people let themselves get scammed by doing stupid stuff like buying a knife from someone who doesn't actually own it yet (or ever).
 
I will confer with Esav on this matter to decide on a manner in which to proceed.

My take on it is this.......

If you don't have the knife in hand from the MAKER you should not be selling it beforehand.
 
This quote below is a much better wording of my one line comment in the OP.
If it was an huge issue Esav would have clarified.
I sell and drop ship all sort of things, it is one way of doing business.

The details of the sale are up to the seller and purchaser.
I have seen quite a bit of "who wants my place inline on this knife?" lately, seems fine.

This is a combo issue with another current thread: do you pay the maker before delivery?
very situation dependant.
and discussion worthy.

WalterDavis originally posted:

"Depends on the situation, really. I do think it's poor form to 'flip' a knife you haven't even recieved yet. If you're going to re-sell it for a profit, then yeah, you should probably make sure it's perfect first. However, if you're basically buying the sellers 'spot in line' and taking over the payment as it were, I don't see a problem with it. Could be someone placed an order 5 years ago and lost their job in the meantime and simply don't have the $$ to cover it, and wants to make sure the maker doesn't have to put forth any extra effort to find a buyer? Could be a lot of reasons why it's reasonable.

That said, interfering in someone's for-sale thread when they haven't done anything 'wrong' really, that qualifies as poor form (And that's not meant as a personal attack Ren, JMHO and it doesn't mean I think any less of you)"
 
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WalterDavis said:
Depends on the situation, really. I do think it's poor form to 'flip' a knife you haven't even recieved yet. If you're going to re-sell it for a profit, then yeah, you should probably make sure it's perfect first. However, if you're basically buying the sellers 'spot in line' and taking over the payment as it were, I don't see a problem with it. Could be someone placed an order 5 years ago and lost their job in the meantime and simply don't have the $$ to cover it, and wants to make sure the maker doesn't have to put forth any extra effort to find a buyer? Could be a lot of reasons why it's reasonable.

That said, interfering in someone's for-sale thread when they haven't done anything 'wrong' really, that qualifies as poor form;) (And that's not meant as a personal attack Ren, JMHO and it doesn't mean I think any less of you:foot::D)
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That.
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There are scenarios where him selling it are feasible. A) He sells the blade here and the buyer pays once the seller receives it. Then it's shipped to the buyer from the seller. B) The buyer pays now and the maker is made aware of what's going on, so that he can ship it to the new guy.

I've seen other members do the same thing in the exchange without issue.

Stuff happens, and the seller may just be trying to sell his spot. At the price listed, I doubt he's making anything off of it.

A simple PM asking what was up or letting Dann or Mike (or a super) know about it would've been more appropriate than completely ruining the guy's thread because he may be doing something wrong. If the potential buyer and seller work out the details in full and are both satisfied, there's no need for anyone to jump in and save the day.
 
Kiah said:
If the potential buyer and seller work out the details in full and are both satisfied, there's no need for anyone to jump in and save the day.
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:thumbup: That's what it boils down to in the end. NOT that there's anything wrong with looking out for the fellow next to you, but to this seems to be a case "premature postulation of wrong-doing";)

I've seen folks here sell their 'spot in line', their 'knife's in the mail', I've seen 'em sell knives that are at their house while they're on vacation, and I've seen this exact same idea of 'sword's almost done' a couple of times, all here on BF within the last 4 years, and never have I seen one of those deals make it to the GBU with a negative connotation. Not that it won't happen, but I hardly think we need to outlaw those rare sales. I don't see the chance of a problem being any higher than with any other sale...
 
edgemaster said:
That said, interfering in someone's for-sale thread when they haven't done anything 'wrong' really, that qualifies as poor form (And that's not meant as a personal attack Ren, JMHO and it doesn't mean I think any less of you)"
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Ren is a mod. You on the other hand are not and should have stayed out of it. It has nothing to do with you. If you felt it needed investigation the best thing you could have done was report the thread.

The seller's biggest problem was not having an updated User Group to reflect his status as a Gold Member. That could have been bad. Very,very bad.

Secondly...I don't think I'd trust a 14 post member who is selling a knife before he has it "in hand". I'm not saying he would stiff anyone. I don't know the guy which is exactly my point. I don't know him well enough to purchase along the line that he's selling.
 
Ken C. said:
Secondly...I don't think I'd trust a 14 post member who is selling a knife before he has it "in hand". I'm not saying he would stiff anyone. I don't know the guy which is exactly my point. I don't know him well enough to purchase along the line that he's selling.
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True dat:D However, I wouldn't send him $1200 for a knife he did have in hand first, either! It would have to be in my hands first, however others may have lower standards:p

I just don't like the idea that it should be against the rules.
 
Ken C. said:
I will confer with Esav on this matter to decide on a manner in which to proceed.

My take on it is this.......

If you don't have the knife in hand from the MAKER you should not be selling it beforehand.
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+1. It's just goofy. Completely goofy.
 
I would not pay for a knife that a seller did not have in hand. I would also not sell a knife that I did not have in hand.

However, if both the buyer and the seller are in agreement regarding the terms of the transaction, then who are we to question the deal?

Just don't come here and whine if it does not work out and then ask the community for resolution!
 
I think this is where a lot of small Internet knife operations get in trouble. They try and drop-ship or expect a certain delivery time and this is a great business plan until someone drops the ball. It's like kiting checks-you can be fine for months and then one check doesn't clear and boom the entire operation falls apart.
It's kind of a desperate way of doing business.
 
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