Selling of GEC SFO's. How to do it fairly?

Ramrodmb said:
I'm not sure what you mean.
You do know that GEC has a limit on what can be ordered right? That Mike could not have ordered 2 or 3 times as many?
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If GEC can make 1500 knives to distribute to all dealers, why can't one dealer order 1500 knives as an SFO?

I'm not blaming Mike, I just don't understand the line of thinking that an Early Reserve system lets him know how many to order. Anything with the NF stamp will sell as many as made, so he's going to order the maximum allowable anyways.
 
I don't think the problem is fairness.

The problem is determining a price point that will achieve supply/demand equilibrium.

Demand is obviously greater than supply. That indicates that the price is too low.

If the price needs to go up (which is seemingly evident), how much does it need to go up? 10%? 20%? 50%? etc.

That's the tricky part for a business, isn't it?

Mike, I would like to hear your thoughts.
 
That's a very good point, Al. We regularly see NIT GECs sell on the Exchange for twice the initial purchase price. I don't think it would be outrageous for Mike or Charlie to charge $125-150 for a TC or NF Barlow.
 
Mike, first of all thank you for spending YOUR time and efforts for our benefit. Second, the system works as it currently stands. Please don't change it. I missed out on several SFOs, and this time I made it in and got my grail Barlow. We're all adults here and shouldn't get overly upset if we miss out. I knew when I missed out previously that I could try again on the next one or go to the secondary market. That's just life. Your system is fair and equitable and I hope it stays as is.
 
Mike, I appreciate your early reserve system, I hope you don't change it. It allows me to sometimes get a knife that I could in no way afford on the Bay or the exchange. I've missed a lot of reserves but I've also got in fast enough to be lucky on some like the #35 CC ebony SFO. I think your system works great!

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I like the way it is now. Please do not change anything - the free for all is a huge headache. I hate the way the free for all is done at another vendor. I don't hate it because I don't get what I want - I hate it because it's huge hassle to coordinate my time off around a drop.
 
Wurrwulf said:
That's a very good point, Al. We regularly see NIT GECs sell on the Exchange for twice the initial purchase price. I don't think it would be outrageous for Mike or Charlie to charge $125-150 for a TC or NF Barlow.
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I don't like the idea of paying $150 + for a TC/NF for a whole host of reasons. The people that are pushing their budget at $100 will not end up not being able to afford it. The folks on the upper end of the spectrum will find it not much of a leap to throw in another hundred or so and look at customs. I think you would just end up shifting the buying groups and end up with the same problem, but lose your core group. Yes, they will still sell out at $150 so it's not fixing the problem by increasing the price. Actually I think they would sell out fairly quick at $175, and you still have the same problem. They will end up on the exchange or buying sites for $250. In my opinion, you are just giving in to the flippers by increasing the price and will disenfranchise your core group - GEC needs to sell knives year round.. all you will end up doing is making the core group angry by increasing price ... in my opinion.
 
Mike, thanks for your comments on this thread. Personally, from the customer side, I think you have by far the best system for Early Reserve (which is why I get most of my GEC knives from you :D). Based on others' comments here, I think it's safe to say I'm not the only one who feels that way. Thanks for all the hard work you put into supporting our knife addiction hobby. :thumbup:
 
Keep everything the same Mike. I hate the free for all at the other vendors. Many people don't have the time or can't constantly monitor the website waiting for the knives to pop up for sale. At least the early reserve usually gives you some time to order. Keep the prices the same. Don't use supply and demand to exclude the consumer on a budget. In my opinion it ain't broke now so don't fix it.
 
I didn't mean to stir up this controversy with what was to me a casual comment. It just seems like there is no difference between the "mad rush to reserve" and the "mad rush to buy", the only difference being you know exactly how many knives you will have available to sell. If the factory had shipped enough to cover the original order, then there would be no difference at all.
 
I have always thought that Mike treats everyone fairly. There will always be people who don't get everything they want and they will be upset, but I don't know how you can cure that. I'm sure that any changes he makes will be in the interest of fairness.
 
jc57 said:
I didn't mean to stir up this controversy with what was to me a casual comment. It just seems like there is no difference between the "mad rush to reserve" and the "mad rush to buy", the only difference being you know exactly how many knives you will have available to sell. If the factory had shipped enough to cover the original order, then there would be no difference at all.
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I am used to Mike's current system and seems fair...but I have to agree that the "mad rush" is basically the same. You get some notice that the pre-order is live or a notice that the knives are ready for sale....there is a mad rush to make the on-line press of a finger process. one is press and forget it, pay later when it is ready. the other pay and wait. Unless you didn't get in on the first place. It all depends on when you are watching for that notice. Seems that there can be delays regionally for that notice, no matter what.

It is the "notice" that needs to be more fair. But don't know how...except to make the notice a few days in advance and a consistent matter. can be difficult as some are only on BF, others only on social media sites.

one system seems harder and that is Mike's current pre-order, but that is the service that he makes for his customers. If the pre-order allows him to order more of the more popular knives ( scales) , within the limits that GEC can manufacture , then it is also the better system for him.
 
MerryMadMonk said:
I don't think the problem is fairness.

The problem is determining a price point that will achieve supply/demand equilibrium.

Demand is obviously greater than supply. That indicates that the price is too low.

If the price needs to go up (which is seemingly evident), how much does it need to go up? 10%? 20%? 50%? etc.

That's the tricky part for a business, isn't it?

Mike, I would like to hear your thoughts.
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I understand what you are saying; but that goes against most of my core values as a re-seller. I like money, but will not peruse the market to decide the maximum price I can charge for something and still stay in business. It is a hobby as much for me as the rest of you. And the part I enjoy the most is getting something in your hands at a great value. Also, if I were a customer and bought a NF Barlow for $150 and then got the #77 Jack for $85; I would feel a bit like someone had taken advantage. If I have to go to bed each night feeling dirty for the margins I charged, I will just walk away. I have seen dealers take small SFO's and hold some back to run on eBay themselves instead of competing with other dealers regular pricing - that is fine, but not me.

Wurrwulf said:
If GEC can make 1500 knives to distribute to all dealers, why can't one dealer order 1500 knives as an SFO? I'm not blaming Mike, I just don't understand the line of thinking that an Early Reserve system lets him know how many to order. Anything with the NF stamp will sell as many as made, so he's going to order the maximum allowable anyways.
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This has been discussed before in other threads. But GEC wants to make knives THEY want made without spending 300 days/yr on SFO's. Thus they have taken steps to limit the number of SFO's allowed. The maximum number on standalone SFO's is 500. I can order 2000 of a standard run if I want and it fits their timelines; but in order to accommodate previous uproars about them spending all their time on SFO's - they will throttle them with valid policies. I would be stupid not to open reserves for a month and then order every knife that someone put their name on - if it were possible. I don't need a starved market demand for anything I can make.

jc57 said:
I didn't mean to stir up this controversy with what was to me a casual comment. It just seems like there is no difference between the "mad rush to reserve" and the "mad rush to buy", the only difference being you know exactly how many knives you will have available to sell. If the factory had shipped enough to cover the original order, then there would be no difference at all.
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I don't see much controversy around here. But this issue is a lot like the political climate today - we are taking a situation that happens 2-3 times a year and acting like it is the rule. There was no particular rush on reserving the #77's as I left them open until I reached a total of 500 "Sure"/"OK" reservations , then submitted the order to GEC for that particular count. But had I guessed at the mix myself; first off I would have not gotten folks what they specifically wanted. But most importantly, had I announced a time/place they were going to be thrown on the website for purchase - there would have been a mad rush and then MANY people would get aggravated that they had it in their cart but didn't get checked out fast enough and felt like they should have been allowed some amount of time to wait before paying. Not to mention the platform I work on, can't handle hundreds of simultaneous order and will over-sell items. So, from this side - there is a major difference. The Early Reserve is much more work for me; but typically ends up in less chewing from aggravated customers.
 
knifeswapper said:
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This has been discussed before in other threads. But GEC wants to make knives THEY want made without spending 300 days/yr on SFO's. Thus they have taken steps to limit the number of SFO's allowed. The maximum number on standalone SFO's is 500. I can order 2000 of a standard run if I want and it fits their timelines; but in order to accommodate previous uproars about them spending all their time on SFO's - they will throttle them with valid policies. I would be stupid not to open reserves for a month and then order every knife that someone put their name on - if it were possible. I don't need a starved market demand for anything I can make.

...
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I feel that would make me incredibly frustrated, if I were in your position. You have, literally, 100 GEC listings sitting around on your site of stuff that "they" wanted to make, but you are limited in what you can order of a sure-fire sale. Businesses can do as they please, both you and GEC, but from an outsider's perspective, it all seems a little wonky to me.

While I was bummed to have missed out on the 77 Green Sawcut, I just took that $100 and put it towards a one-armed #15, a couple tube poppers, and a CK pocketslip. There's no hard feelings towards CK or Mike. I'm just so used to companies doing whatever they need to do to make as much money as possible that it's almost confusing or disorientating to read about situations like this.
 
Probably somthing your sick of being ask Mike but since your considering a new system is there any chance us crazy Canadians will be aloud to partake in this new version:D
 
If the current system works for you Mike, please keep it.

You do an early reserve one way, there's a couple dealers that do it a different way, there's Gunstock Jack who just lists them up with no reserve and puts a note in his sig that they're available, KSF sends out notices explaining when knives will be posted and it's a free for all....each one of you dealers does things different and there's still people who miss a knife and complain.
 
I miss the days when the knives would just appear on a site with no warning and acquiring a knife didn't boil down to who had the fastest fingers or the best IT set-up.
 
Mike, I vote to keep the system as-is. The fact is there are more buyers than knives so you are guaranteed to catch flak no matter how you skin the cat. And in todays internet world, people are exceedingly rude to vendors as they say things in email or on the forums they would never say to your face. I run an online business and feel your pain. You're a great vendor and your doing it right; most of us appreciate it.


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