Selling of GEC SFO's. How to do it fairly?

Weird part to me is that GEC can do a run of 350 forum knives with hand jigged and worm groves covers, but they seem to limit all of the other knives that everyone really wants. I know we feel like a big group of nuts, but honestly if they made 300-400 of the upcoming 77 barlows and gave everyone a shot a two day window to reserve and prepay, would they really need more than that? The problem just seems to be with the limited numbers.

I like the way you do it currently, but another idea could be to take as many early reservations as people make and then prioritize by previous amount spent on your site. Myself along with others might get a bit screwed because I never bothered to log in unless it was an early reserve, but at least that rewards loyal customers and could boost your non-GEC sales.
 
Not paying specifically, just getting the notifications when traveling abroad or incommunicado for some other reason. But I can't figure out how to tell the difference between someone that can't pay and someone that won't pay. There are always those that have no intention of following thru for one reason or another. And, on occasion there are those that end up in a position wherein they cannot receive the notifications within 24 hours. I generally follow-up with a notification prior to the 24 hour limit that does not contain links; just in case they have a strict spam filter. So, I am not referring to lost notifications in this scenario.
 
tdkfm said:
Weird part to me is that GEC can do a run of 350 forum knives with hand jigged and worm groves covers, but they seem to limit all of the other knives that everyone really wants. I know we feel like a big group of nuts, but honestly if they made 300-400 of the upcoming 77 barlows and gave everyone a shot a two day window to reserve and prepay, would they really need more than that? The problem just seems to be with the limited numbers.

I like the way you do it currently, but another idea could be to take as many early reservations as people make and then prioritize by previous amount spent on your site. Myself along with others might get a bit screwed because I never bothered to log in unless it was an early reserve, but at least that rewards loyal customers and could boost your non-GEC sales.
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The prioritizing based on spending may also benefit the flippers. Just because you buy a lot of knives doesn't mean that you keep them.

I've bought knives from Mike before GEC was around. But I don't think most of those orders were done with a registered account. And they may have been done with different email accounts over the years. I doubt I'd have a high enough total in my current account to compete. I'd have to start shopping elsewhere.
 
tdkfm said:
Weird part to me is that GEC can do a run of 350 forum knives with hand jigged and worm groves covers, but they seem to limit all of the other knives that everyone really wants. I know we feel like a big group of nuts, but honestly if they made 300-400 of the upcoming 77 barlows and gave everyone a shot a two day window to reserve and prepay, would they really need more than that? The problem just seems to be with the limited numbers.
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Current standalone SFO's are limited to 500 knives and that was what I ordered. Just to clarify. If they didn't do this, 2-3 large dealers could keep them working on SFO's all year - so I completely understand their position.
 
supratentorial said:
The prioritizing based on spending may also benefit the flippers. Just because you buy a lot of knives doesn't mean that you keep them.

I've bought knives from Mike before GEC was around. But I don't think most of those orders were done with a registered account. And they may have been done with different email accounts over the years. I doubt I'd have a high enough total in my current account to compete. I'd have to start shopping elsewhere.
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There are many things I don't like about the idea of prioritizing reservations by past expenditure. Primarily, I want all policies / procedures to give everyone a level playing field.
 
knifeswapper said:
Not paying specifically, just getting the notifications when traveling abroad or incommunicado for some other reason. But I can't figure out how to tell the difference between someone that can't pay and someone that won't pay. There are always those that have no intention of following thru for one reason or another. And, on occasion there are those that end up in a position wherein they cannot receive the notifications within 24 hours. I generally follow-up with a notification prior to the 24 hour limit that does not contain links; just in case they have a strict spam filter. So, I am not referring to lost notifications in this scenario.
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You could ask for folks to respond yes or no to the notification. Give them an extension if they don't respond within 2 days and then permanently boot them from the preordering if they don't respond within 3 days. That takes up more time. And probably adds aggravation.

I'd say 24 hours is fair. They had to respond much quicker to order the knives. Sometimes they sell out within minutes.
 
knarfeng said:
Personally, I think a fair way would be:
►Each person puts in a numbered chit with a list of what he wants. He puts a priority to each one that he wants. There is a time limit on submitting chits of at least a few days. One chit per person.
►Knives get made and shipped.
►Lottery is held. Chit numbers are drawn. For each time a chit number is drawn, one knife on the list on that chit gets fulfilled. Then if there are more knives on the chit, the chit goes back in the hat with a chance of getting drawn again. Each time that chit gets drawn, another knife on the list is fulfilled.
►lottery continues until all knives are assigned.
►Each Person who put in a chit gets contacted.
►Person pays for whatever knives he won. Person gets the knives.

This would reduce occurrences of brascals reserving all the knives then selling on the aftermarket for big bucks. Gives more folks an even chance to get a knife.
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I would be in favor of this or the current system. I buy from Collector's Knives exclusively because I like how the early reserve system works. It gives me a chance to save up while the knife I KNOW I'm going to buy is being made. It's probably become a lot less interested if it were a free-for-all. I've only bought one GEC from KSF because of this. Nothing against KSF, just not my style.
 
I have had one knife slip through the early reserve that I didn't purchase. I honestly forgot that I marked 'sure' and was surprised by the email asking for payment.
I emailed CK and asked not to be restricted in future Early Reserves. And was promptly responded to and let off the hook. THANKS MIKE! :D
Now, I make darn sure what is and what isn't on my 'sure' list. I think ive checked on the Beer Scout reserve about a dozen times!

I also collect art/music prints, which are basically fancy, high-priced posters, and EVERY dealer drops posters into a mad free-for-all on their websites. Ive had websites crash before because soo many people were buying prints at the same time.

It really turns into a nightmare when you've waited 2 months for a print drop, taken off early from work, locked yourself in the bedroom in front of the computer, hit the 'refresh' button until your finger cramps, just to have the dang website crash when the prints drop. :mad: :barf:

Not to mention the dreaded 'bots'. Some people who flip prints for a living have computer programs that will automatically buy HUNDREDS of prints all at the same time. Just so they can go resell at a much higher price.

I know this has nothing to do with knives, but its all the same concept. I, for one, really hope Mike doesn't do away with the Early Reserve.
 
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I think the most helpful thing for ordering is advance notice. There is nothing less organized than just randomly putting the knives up. On some other dealer sites (not CollectorKnives), people refresh the page hoping to catch them. It's a huge waste of time. Knowing when they will be added, eliminates this waste of time. I think dealers are making an effort now to give advance notice.

On CollectorKnives, folks are given 24 hours to pay. But the notice for ordering is often much shorter than 24 hours. It would be much more convenient to have the same 24 hours advance notice. If people know 24 hours in advance that the knives will be made available at 6PM then it's much easier to plan ahead.

Folks who always get their knives may be happy that there's short notice because there's less competition. Fewer people can respond without advance notice. Less competition is also an advantage of preordering. Because the knives have not been made yet, fewer people will know about them.

Whether they are preordered or in stock, advance notice will give more people a chance to purchase the knives.
 
supratentorial said:
I think the most helpful thing for ordering is advance notice. I think dealers are making an effort now to give advance notice.

On CollectorKnives, folks are given 24 hours to pay. But the notice for ordering is often much shorter than 24 hours. It would be much more convenient to have the same 24 hours advance notice. If people know 24 hours in advance that the knives will be made available at 6PM then it's much easier to plan ahead.

.
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I agree with this one.:thumbup:
 
I do wish there was more notice. I frequently travel and have, sadly, not followed Mike's conditions on two occasions. I really appreciate the ER system and Mike and family as a company that helps us. I've been disappointed in myself and the situations that have let to these lapses. That said some notice or a reprieve based on points accrued might be a good step.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
If you truly want fair, limit GEC SFOs to one per person. Anything less will encourage flippers driving up the price.

Reality check ... GEC SFOs are not worth the price they bring on the secondary market ... they are no better than standard run GECs. I have given away several TC barlows, was a good knife to introduce folks to traditionals that were a step above Case. Was easy for me to give them away when I could buy them for $100 to $125, but tougher to give them away when retailers use a screwed up system that rewards flippers who reserve and buy as many as possible and immediately flip them for double (or more) of what they just paid. Only we can stop this madness ... by refusing to pay flipper markup. I would like to see SFO prices crash ... flippers flooding the market when they can't sell their overpriced stock they bought at MSRP and start paying interest on that credit card.

Something's broken when a flipper makes 5 - 10 times the profit a dealer makes on a brand new knife. And 1095 sucks for a user anyway.
 
supratentorial said:
On CollectorKnives, folks are given 24 hours to pay. But the notice for ordering is often much shorter than 24 hours. It would be much more convenient to have the same 24 hours advance notice. If people know 24 hours in advance that the knives will be made available at 6PM then it's much easier to plan ahead.

Folks who always get their knives may be happy that there's short notice because there's less competition. Fewer people can respond without advance notice. Less competition is also an advantage of preordering. Because the knives have not been made yet, fewer people will know about them.

Whether they are preordered or in stock, advance notice will give more people a chance to purchase the knives.
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I can't really wrap my mind around this thought. There are only so many slots open; and whether those slots are filled with notice or without notice - there are no more peoples names in the slots. The Early Reserve system is not an ordering system, it is a first come - first serve reservation system. And by having hundreds of people sitting and hitting refresh at 6PM, it will just aggravate a different group of folks. But one thing I know it will do, it will blow the minds on most servers. The one time I did announce a pre-determined time that something would be announced; when the frenzy was over I had (-4) knives in stock - which means I had to get chewed out by 4 people that had one taken away and about 30 others that didn't like that they had it in their cart but didn't get checked out before the other folks. I know this has happened other places as well. And if it causes havoc with systems that have spent millions of dollars to develop; I assure you my Early Reserve system would puke on itself.

The guy that has to be at church at 6PM; would he like this policy? The guy that is driving home from work; would he like this policy? If I schedule it for 6PM would those still at work at 4PM in California like this policy? It doesn't matter how you do it; there will be some that don't like it and some that do. My goal is to notify as well as I know how that they are now available and take reservations in a first-come-first-serve fashion.

J_Curd said:
I do wish there was more notice. I frequently travel and have, sadly, not followed Mike's conditions on two occasions. I really appreciate the ER system and Mike and family as a company that helps us. I've been disappointed in myself and the situations that have let to these lapses. That said some notice or a reprieve based on points accrued might be a good step.
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I don't recall ever being contacted about a restriction that I haven't waived. But, it seems you are talking about notice on honoring the reservation that is in place; not advance notice of when the reservation will open. And if it were 48 hours, there would be those that didn't feel this was enough time. And if it were 72 hours, there would be those that had a valid reason why that wasn't enough time. Over 400 reservations have been honored so far on this run, with one person not being able to place the order within 24 hours; and he wouldn't have been able to do it in 72 hours. I have had people email me two weeks after the notification, that were mad I couldn't take the order. But, on the lighter side, I had a guy want his deposit back the other day when I had to move him to standby ;>


What it boils down to is that I am an analytical thinker; and I have come up with hundreds of different ways to do this. But each one I can logically follow to an outcome that is going to leave someone feeling shorted.
 
knifeswapper said:
I can't really wrap my mind around this thought. There are only so many slots open; and whether those slots are filled with notice or without notice - there are no more peoples names in the slots. The Early Reserve system is not an ordering system, it is a first come - first serve reservation system. And by having hundreds of people sitting and hitting refresh at 6PM, it will just aggravate a different group of folks. But one thing I know it will do, it will blow the minds on most servers.
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I think you wrapped your mind around it. You acknowledge there would be heavier traffic so you know more people would be trying to order the knives. That's what I mean by more people having a chance. The number of knives doesn't change, of course.

knifeswapper said:
The one time I did announce a pre-determined time that something would be announced; when the frenzy was over I had (-4) knives in stock - which means I had to get chewed out by 4 people that had one taken away and about 30 others that didn't like that they had it in their cart but didn't get checked out before the other folks. I know this has happened other places as well. And if it causes havoc with systems that have spent millions of dollars to develop; I assure you my Early Reserve system would puke on itself.
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I can see that. Similar things happened to me on two other dealer sites. I bought and paid for knives and they were over sold. Short notice is one way to limit traffic. It does mean that less people will be able to respond in time but that's the point.

knifeswapper said:
The guy that has to be at church at 6PM; would he like this policy? The guy that is driving home from work; would he like this policy? If I schedule it for 6PM would those still at work at 4PM in California like this policy? It doesn't matter how you do it; there will be some that don't like it and some that do. My goal is to notify as well as I know how that they are now available and take reservations in a first-come-first-serve fashion.
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I understand that you can't please everyone. Not everyone works the same hours.


I appreciate the open discussion and what you're trying to do.
 
Since I live OS, I can give you a totally independent opinion. Your current system is as fair as any.
 
knifeswapper said:
There are many things I don't like about the idea of prioritizing reservations by past expenditure. Primarily, I want all policies / procedures to give everyone a level playing field.
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Then do your sale Busse-style.

Post instructions on the forum in a thread a couple days in advance for those who don't log into BF every day, and then on a certain date, at a certain time everyone that is interested sends and email to the designated in-box or in-boxes.

The allocation is in the order emails are received, and each unique email request is awarded one knife.

Easy, simple, fair.

You will always have to entertain the disgruntled that fail to "win", but at least with this method you are able to prevent someone from buying all of a certain knife just to capitalize in the secondary market.

Good luck and thank you for caring enough to even discuss the issue; too many buyers is a good problem to have as a seller.

best

mqqn
 
sell the seconds! i think i left a note in a recent purchase that im willing to buy a second!
 
A green and a bone on the big auction site already for 3x the original price...

No matter the system there will always be scalpers. You can't please everyone, just do what's best for your business, and your sanity.
 
Capitalism baby. That's one reason GEC is so sought after.

If no one buys the $100 knife for 3x the price, then we're all good. We cant really blame scalpers for selling something that dummys (just my opinion) are willing to pay for.


EDIT: I have a copperhead and micarta barlow on the way. Will I keep both? No. Will I sell over original buying price? Absolutely. Will I rape someone's wallet in the process? Absolutely Not.
 
Actually there are four up so far - One of each. Not quite triple the original price. Two from one seller, two from a different seller.

It would be easy enough for a dealer to cross reference the "item location" city with his sales list and see exactly which of his customers are buying for flipping purposes. If a dealer cared about such things, which I am not saying they should or should not.
 
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