Selling to new member

[PeteyTwoPointOne]

Can't say I ever remember a single time checking how much feedback somebody had before I sold to them...Maybe I checked before I bought a couple times if I didn't recognize them as active BF members, but I really can't even specifically recall doing that.

I recognize a lot of the screenames from postings around BF and such when they post an "I'll take it!" in my threads, especially since I lurked here for years.

But, at the same time, I also don't recognize a fair amount of names that I've bought from / sold to.

Hell, if I were to look, I've probably even busted a couple international cherries, even at that.

Feedback's a good thing and I've left more than I received <I'm ok with that>-- but when the steel monkey's on my back the only stats that I'm checking is my current PayPal cash balance.

Feedback is kinda like denouement for me. I like the hunt...I don't let anything get in the way, on the selling<or buying> sides, of the initial stages of a fun deal!

 

[Bdtry]

If this was so easy to do, then why aren't people buying more expensive things such as TV's, furniture, cars etc and then just claiming it was fraudulent? I highly doubt that Paypal would just take money from a seller without giving him or her the chance to prove that the transaction was a legitimate one. Otherwise it would be known as theft and Paypal would be setting themselves up for a lawsuits.

There are a few different kinds of fraud. The first is claiming a charge is fraudulent through a credit card company instead of Paypal itself.

If the buyer pays through paypal then waits long enough for their statement to come etc then phones the CC company and says it was a fraudulent transaction the card company will go to paypal to take the money back. With some (most?) card companies you have up to 6 months to file a claim. Now PayPal has to prove the transaction was not fraudulent. They really really suck and basically don't. They just pay the money back and take it from your paypal balance. If there is not enough of a balance they will let you know and give you something like 30 days to put enough money into the account. If you do not add enough money to pay it off they can and will go after your bank account.

All the while that is going on it is on you to prove that the transaction is legitimate. Yup, pay"pal" completely fucks over the sellers in those cases. This process is extremely popular in Brazil and area for games that I play, so much so that they will no longer accept CC and paypal payments from those countries because the companies lose the appeal EVERY time. Basically paypal does not want to screw with the CC companies.

If the buyer goes through paypal and says the transaction was false the process is generally a bit easier for the seller. You can post your proof that you shipped to their approved/confirmed address and Paypal themselves can look into things from the technical side. This is why you never ship to an address that paypal has not designated as confirmed, that will almost immediately cancel out any seller protection you have.

How do I know all of this? My friend went through it several times after selling on ebay. He lost around $4000 in funds in his paypal account when they closed it "for suspicious activity" because somebody filed a few false claims against him after he sold them a few items. He got a new account and continued to sell when the same thing happened and this time they clawed the money back from his bank account to hold until the claims were finished.

If you want more evidence just google it. The internet is filled with tales of how paypal has done this to others.

 

[pwrdbycotn]

There are a few different kinds of fraud. The first is claiming a charge is fraudulent through a credit card company instead of Paypal itself.

If the buyer pays through paypal then waits long enough for their statement to come etc then phones the CC company and says it was a fraudulent transaction the card company will go to paypal to take the money back. With some (most?) card companies you have up to 6 months to file a claim. Now PayPal has to prove the transaction was not fraudulent. They really really suck and basically don't. They just pay the money back and take it from your paypal balance. If there is not enough of a balance they will let you know and give you something like 30 days to put enough money into the account. If you do not add enough money to pay it off they can and will go after your bank account.

All the while that is going on it is on you to prove that the transaction is legitimate. Yup, pay"pal" completely fucks over the sellers in those cases. This process is extremely popular in Brazil and area for games that I play, so much so that they will no longer accept CC and paypal payments from those countries because the companies lose the appeal EVERY time. Basically paypal does not want to screw with the CC companies.

If the buyer goes through paypal and says the transaction was false the process is generally a bit easier for the seller. You can post your proof that you shipped to their approved/confirmed address and Paypal themselves can look into things from the technical side. This is why you never ship to an address that paypal has not designated as confirmed, that will almost immediately cancel out any seller protection you have.

How do I know all of this? My friend went through it several times after selling on ebay. He lost around $4000 in funds in his paypal account when they closed it "for suspicious activity" because somebody filed a few false claims against him after he sold them a few items. He got a new account and continued to sell when the same thing happened and this time they clawed the money back from his bank account to hold until the claims were finished.

If you want more evidence just google it. The internet is filled with tales of how paypal has done this to others.

So your friend just allowed his money to be stolen, and not only did he do nothing about it, but made another account and let it happen again? There's either something that you're failing to tell us all, or your friend isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. I am simply not going to believe that there is a legalized way of stealing with no recourse for the person having their money stolen, and no chance of going to jail for the person committing the fraud. Why would any of us keep our paypal accounts open, then, if it's so easy for someone to come along and steal our money?

 

[Peter Hartwig]

While there certainly may be ways to rip off through the PP system, they have no direct correlation to new members. An established member can do much more harm then a new one and on rare occasions some have. Luckily most people trend toward honesty.

 

[Bdtry]

So your friend just allowed his money to be stolen, and not only did he do nothing about it, but made another account and let it happen again? There's either something that you're failing to tell us all, or your friend isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. I am simply not going to believe that there is a legalized way of stealing with no recourse for the person having their money stolen, and no chance of going to jail for the person committing the fraud. Why would any of us keep our paypal accounts open, then, if it's so easy for someone to come along and steal our money?

It is hard to do business on eBay without a paypal account. And no, he did not "allow" his money to be stolen. He had a good week on ebay, got paid, and paypal seized his account. Do some damn research. Go to google, type in "paypal seized account" and find out it is extremely common. Usually they tell you your account is being held because if suspected illegal behavior. Cops do the same thing under civil asset forfeiture. Get pulled over and in some states cops can and will seize money you have on hand. Why? Because they get a cut. If paypal seizes your account with money in it they keep that money.

"I am simply not going to believe that there is a legalized way of stealing with no recourse for the person having their money stolen" Oh, there is recourse, but you have to prove that the person claiming the charge was fraudulent was lying about it. YOU have to prove it, not paypal. Again, do some research, don't take my word for it. Go to google, search for paypal scam, paypal false chargeback, etc.

 

[pwrdbycotn]

I've been pulled over by cops in several states, and none have stolen the money out of my pocket. I think you and I are just going to have to agree to disagree.
BTW, if you do a google search, you can find that Elvis is not only still alive, but travels all over the world. He's spotted everywhere! Do the research for yourself. It's true, I swear!

 

[Vaporstang]

I've sold to a member who it was obvious just joined to post to buy my knife. He listed where he normally buys and sells for reference (and I can't for the life of me remember where). Very smooth transaction except he added PP fees on top of my listed PP G&S price. He said he was used to F&F listings. I refunded the difference and we were good to go.

 

[jeffsenpai]

What's really important is not asking anyone to pay with Paypal F&F.

I understand the ideological reason for saying this, but in regards to the question OP asked in this thread, if you are the SELLER dealing with a new and unknown member, receiving a payment via F&F is the safest way to go. Especially if you are selling an expensive knife and a newly registered/zero feedback member appears and wants to buy.

The new buyer has little to worry about if they are purchasing from an established member with excellent feedback. However, the veteran seller has much to lose by selling an expensive item to an untested member.

 

[Peter Hartwig]

^^^
If you want to use that approach you can always ask for USPS money order., rather then using PP inappropriately .However a new member is often a bit nervous about the transaction, and after reading GB&U threads they see a rip off around every corner. PP G&S helps relieve some of that fear.

 

[benchwarmer380]

I understand the ideological reason for saying this, but in regards to the question OP asked in this thread, if you are the SELLER dealing with a new and unknown member, receiving a payment via F&F is the safest way to go. Especially if you are selling an expensive knife and a newly registered/zero feedback member appears and wants to buy.

The new buyer has little to worry about if they are purchasing from an established member with excellent feedback. However, the veteran seller has much to lose by selling an expensive item to an untested member.

While i understand the reason for that mindset, i dont agree with it.

Trust is a two way street. If you have doubts on a transaction then dont go through with it.

I agree that it is generally riskier to deal with an unknown than an established member with good feedback, yet it is still foolish to give up your protection. Its sad to say but established members with great feedback have gone scumbag before.

 

[palonej]

Agreed, no F&F. Also, anyone can go scumbag at any time.
Joe

While i understand the reason for that mindset, i dont agree with it.

Trust is a two way street. If you have doubts on a transaction then dont go through with it.

I agree that it is generally riskier to deal with an unknown than an established member with good feedback, yet it is still foolish to give up your protection. Its sad to say but established members with great feedback have gone scumbag before.

 

[rustysocket]

what is your overall philosophy when selling to someone with zero feedback and not many posts??

Honestly I go with my gut... which has been wrong in some cases. I take a look at their post history and especially the timeframes. It's unlikely I'd do a transaction on a knife I couldn't afford to give away.

It's a cart / horse... chicken/egg issue as we were all new here at one time.

 

[OhLeever]

I'm new and I'm worried that my newness will deter sellers from working with me. Going to try and be a contributing member but I'm new to this hobby/lifestyle so I don't have much to offer yet. I do more reading and admiring than asking questions since the search function answers most things I am looking to know. But I gotta find a way to up my post count so good thing there's a off topic general section I can roam around in for now.

And sending paypal F&F is hard for me as a buyer regardless of how good the seller's feedback is. Like someone said, anyone can go scumbag at any time.

 

[Peter Hartwig]

Don't even consider using PP F&F. It is not the proper thing to do for PP or you. There are very few knives that you won't have another chance to get one of. Stay here long enough and you will see the exact knife pass through time and time again-I have bought back a number of the knives I sold.

As for posting-I wouldn't strive to just up the post count. Post where you can contribute or ask questions-quality is better then Quantity IMO.
There are loads of different forums to try.

 

[91bravo]

Can't say I ever remember a single time checking how much feedback somebody had before I sold to them...Maybe I checked before I bought a couple times if I didn't recognize them as active BF members, but I really can't even specifically recall doing that.

I recognize a lot of the screenames from postings around BF and such when they post an "I'll take it!" in my threads, especially since I lurked here for years.

But, at the same time, I also don't recognize a fair amount of names that I've bought from / sold to.

Hell, if I were to look, I've probably even busted a couple international cherries, even at that.

Feedback's a good thing and I've left more than I received <I'm ok with that>-- but when the steel monkey's on my back the only stats that I'm checking is my current PayPal cash balance.

Feedback is kinda like denouement for me. I like the hunt...I don't let anything get in the way, on the selling<or buying> sides, of the initial stages of a fun deal!

This...

 

[Ferahgo]

I would be happy to sell PP G&S only. That way, everyone can have piece of mind

 

[KELAMA]

Feedback is kinda like denouement for me. I like the hunt...I don't let anything get in the way, on the selling<or buying> sides, of the initial stages of a fun deal!

Denouement
Definition of Denouement
The denouement of a story occurs just after the climax and is the final moment in which there is resolution for any remaining conflicts in the plot.

^ And it's at about this time...
that you lay back on your bed and take a nice long deep drag off your cigarette, as you enjoy the moment of another major knife conquest...




Back on topic of OP:
I ran into this exact situation last night. A 3 year member with only 6 total posts, posted in my sales thread, wanting to buy one of the knives I had for sale. We ended up having a productive conversation on the phone, and were able to work out details so that we could move forward with our transaction.

 

[Foghorn Leghorn Fan]

Denouement
Definition of Denouement
The denouement of a story occurs just after the climax and is the final moment in which there is resolution for any remaining conflicts in the plot.

^ And it's at about this time...
that you lay back on your bed and take a nice long deep drag off your cigarette, as you enjoy the moment of another major knife conquest...

View attachment 790470

Thanks for sharing!!!!

 

[ChazzyP]

With a new buyer with no feedback, I'll go back and look at that individual's posts. One red flag would be posts only in sales threads, especially posting odd questions, requests, or monetary offers made in the thread. Also attempts to buy in stale threads. With no feedback, I'd prefer to sell to someone that's posted in GKD or similar threads and expressed an interest in the hobby and has something to offer to the discussion or community. Someone who's only looking to buy or for cheap deals, not so much. I'm also only going to sell PP G&S ever, especially to someone new. Money orders slow the process and you lose the protection that PP affords a transaction. I don't always insure knives I ship out--usually just the high-value ones--but will always do so with a new buyer. The additional cost of signature-confirmation can also worth be it in such cases.

I was a newb a few years ago, and made the effort to comport myself in the manner that seemed to be the norm for purchases and sales here and also made the effort to establish myself as a contributing member of the community before embarking on any transactions. I was the beneficiary of trust extended by veteran members and am more than willing to pass that trust forward as seems appropriate. I've worked with a couple new buyers and have walked them through the process to help ensure a successful transaction from both ends.

So, in these instances, my criteria are good communication, solid posting history other than in sales threads, and covering the transaction with G&S and additional insurance. Above all, read between the lines and trust your gut. No sale is worth losing your knife, your money or both.

 

[palonej]

As usual, very well said Steve!
Couldn’t agree more. Checking posting history will usually give you a pretty good idea as to what that member is like and if you should deal with them.
Joe

With a new buyer with no feedback, I'll go back and look at that individual's posts. One red flag would be posts only in sales threads, especially posting odd questions, requests, or monetary offers made in the thread. Also attempts to buy in stale threads. With no feedback, I'd prefer to sell to someone that's posted in GKD or similar threads and expressed an interest in the hobby and has something to offer to the discussion or community. Someone who's only looking to buy or for cheap deals, not so much. I'm also only going to sell PP G&S ever, especially to someone new. Money orders slow the process and you lose the protection that PP affords a transaction. I don't always insure knives I ship out--usually just the high-value ones--but will always do so with a new buyer. The additional cost of signature-confirmation can also worth be it in such cases.

I was a newb a few years ago, and made the effort to comport myself in the manner that seemed to be the norm for purchases and sales here and also made the effort to establish myself as a contributing member of the community before embarking on any transactions. I was the beneficiary of trust extended by veteran members and am more than willing to pass that trust forward as seems appropriate. I've worked with a couple new buyers and have walked them through the process to help ensure a successful transaction from both ends.

So, in these instances, my criteria are good communication, solid posting history other than in sales threads, and covering the transaction with G&S and additional insurance. Above all, read between the lines and trust your gut. No sale is worth losing your knife, your money or both.