Seriously - what to do about quench oil?????????? This is ludicrousness!

Buttercup Customs -- Kinda catchy if you ask me. Jess ;)
 
Dixieblade57 said:
The only thing he didn't teach me was how to make enough at the construction game to retire when the body is too beat up and unable to do it anymore!

But you see ole buttercup is beginning to slow down and his income has slowed even more
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I feel your pain hoss. I turn 65 in July (if I make it that far), and its tuff living on a fixed income. I don't really depend on selling my blades in order to eat and it is sometimes very difficult to make that step forward and buy what I really need in order to make the best blades that I am capable of.

Sometimes you just have to take a leap of faith and hope it pays off in the long run. So far I have been fortunate. I'm sure you will be also. Take that leap and buy some quality quenchant. You won't be disappointed.

Robert
 
Just a side note on this subject:

Many of us are hitting the age where it becomes obvious that we can't do what we used to and certainly not as fast, hard, and long as we used to . (Yes, that way too, but I am referring to work and income.)

Hopefully we find ways to work smarter, not harder, but there may come a time when we can't do what we have done for a living anymore.
Planning ahead and saving is a way to avoid this, but the reality of modern lifestyle makes that hard. Even if we realize the need to save , we are often too late at the gate to save enough.
Finding an alternate source of income that we can do when the old bones are tired is a smart idea. Knifemaking may replace construction, but you have to start before you need the income.

If you are a younger person, some tips are:
Save what you can when you can. Put it in a savings that you can't get to, like an IRA or 401K. If your employer will match contributions, save the max you can afford. You will thank yourself later.
Plan ahead. No one will be able to work forever. Even the big name makers will slow down their output and end up making a knife or two a year, not a day/week. If you live like a king because you have lots of cash on hand, and don't think about the day when your income will drop with your output, you may regret those vacation trips and expensive trucks that you paid for easily when you had the money.
If you work in a cash business, pay your taxes and FICA, it may be all you have someday, unless you have invested well. The fixed income from that will allow you to make a few knives to bridge the gap from living in poverty to living comfortably within your means. Start learning your new occupation years ahead of the need. By the time you are a recognized maker, you can slowly shift from one to the other.

If it is too late for you, tell your kids, and those younger makers who ask for advise to start planning now.
 
Don Hanson III said:
Why 10 gallons?
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OK there is that dreaded question! :eek:

I am in the process of building a heated quench tank w/circulating pump. I have yet to post the WIP as I am still working on it when time permits but it is made from an old fuel tank, appox. 10.5 in diameter and about 28" +or - in depth / or about 10 gals. worth of quench oil with enough volume to not compromise the oil.

It will allow me too do a particular piece that has been on the drawing board for over a year and half. This piece is approx. 24" in length. The tank is going to be great for all of my knives but it will definitively fit the bill on this one!

I have been kicking around this tank build idea almost as long as the particular piece I was referencing. My problem is now that I am getting into the finish stages of the build I am just now beginning to realize the cost of filling it with quench oil.

I have even bantered around the use of a smaller vessel on another forum but seem to be getting mixed reviews that smaller is better. Yes it saves on quench oil but does the smaller volume of material allow for a proper quench and will it cause the oil to degrade faster? Here is the thread if anyone wants to take a look at the discussion.
http://knifedogs.com/showthread.php?23378-Optimum-size-for-a-quench-vessel

If I knew that the smaller vessel would not be a problem for me then I would sell this quench tank upon completion to someone doing sword work and build the smaller diameter one.

Anyone got any discussion over here as to size of a quench vessel???????
 
Dixie,

We've all walked in your shoes. I'm with these guys though. Pony up and get the Parks 50.

I started with Canola and experimented for awhile with Brine and realized I NEEDED to get quality oil for several reasons-

1. I want to work 1095 steels and W series which require a fast quench.
2. I want to be able to produce Hamon with consistant results
3. I invest too much time in effort and materials in blades before they reach the quench to have them crack in the brine
4. Personally experienced a brine quenched blade that to all outward appearances was great. UNTIL some slightly agressive testing snapped it like a twig. Found out the hard way there was an edge crack !
5. Micro fractures in the grain boundries ???? Won't find those until a customer returns a blade in multiple pieces and your left scratching your head as too the cause of the failure.

IMHO 10 gallons of quench oil is gross overkill for what we do. I could fill the swimming pool with Parks 50 but the reality is only the oil surrounding the blade will be doing the actual quenching. A sufficient amount of oil and room for aggitation is all thats needed.

I think your solution is simple. A custom made quench tank to hold 5 gallons and get the depth you need

I'm still using the metal 5 gallon pail the Parks came in for a quench tank but I've got an old stainless steel trash can saved for a tank. Figure I can cut it to size and have a pro tig weld it up to 6.5" diameter X 36" tall = 5.1714 U.S. gallons That'll be my holy grail tank. 5 gallons of oil will nearly fill it and I'll have plenty of depth for straight up and down aggitation and enough diameter for spine to edge agitation.

That's my take. Let know how you decide to work it out.

-Josh
 
Hay Buttercup, I know what you mean about tight money and a fixed income. I am an old carpenter also,beat up, broke up, and broke a$$. But I told my bride that, we mite have to eat more beans but I am getting Parks 50.
Called Lee @ maxim Oil and the price was 118.64 for 5 gal delivered . So not too many beans after all.
Now, I have been using Mc-Carr 11 for a couple yrs and on 1095 it seemed to be lacking, But P-50 is as diff as daylight & dark.
I would say, that if there is Anyway you can get P50 then go for it.[It's more like a Skil 77 over a Black&Decker] Jerry
 
Josh Dabney said:
I'm still using the metal 5 gallon pail the Parks came in for a quench tank
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Just be sure you don't poke a hole in the bottom with the tip on agitation.

It helps if you can keep that pail in a trash can, or drop a steel plate inside the pail, or something.
 
Dixie, 5 gals of quench oil is more than enough for blades. I use a 6"x30" steel pipe, holds around 4 gal and works great.

You're over thinking this, man.;)
 
Thanks for the tip !

I haven't done anything over about 5" blade in it thus far. I also have it stacked inside a plastic 5gallon bucket just in case.

I'd probably cry if I lost a drop of the precious liquid gold !!! :)

-Josh
 
A long time ago, when I started forging/making damascus, I got all hung up on rebuilding power hammers, building presses and shop tools. Was talking to Sid at Little Giant one day and he asked; "Don, do you want to build tools, or knives". I said knives of course. He just smiled, I'll never forget that conversation. :D
 
Thanks Don I know I tend to over-think things at times! That is the way my brain works. When I did construction I would build an entire job over in my head several times before I ever gave a quote, to make sure I didn't miss anything in a bid! I do enjoy building things so now I have some food for thought in that area!


There is a lot of mis information out there. When it comes to several aspects of the custom knife world, some include steel and there uses but those can be looked up and researched through.

I think quench process has become the real information mis-link! As long the size of the vessel is not a problem I can still get the depth and the volume I need without resorting to having to buy such a large quantity.
 
Seems my first square wheel grinder new was like $680,--- back then it was a bank loan
in order to get it.
Ken.
 
skilldust said:
....but I am getting Parks 50.
Called Lee @ maxim Oil and the price was 118.64 for 5 gal delivered .
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They sell Parks? I don't see it listed on their website, unless it is "HBTH 330 PARKETTES". On this page, they have what they call Duratherm "G"
http://www.maximoil.com/products.htm#Heat Treating Products

On this page, MSDS codes, towards the bottom under heat treating products item #11330 HBTH 330 PARKETTS Heat Treating "Briquettes" (next to last)
http://www.maximoil.com/msds_codes.htm#HEAT TREATING PRODUCTS

I have a friend in Baton Rouge La. I will see if he would mind if I was to have it shipped to his house and then bring it to me in New Orleans. Then I can bring it over here. That might bring down the cost of shipping, if I can get it worked out. If I can, what should I charge you for shipping???? Hhmmmmm;)

Edit here: Just heard beck from my buddy in Baton Rouge, he said no problem. I'll try to call maxim tomorrow.
Dixie, you guys be safe on the road.
 
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Thanks Railrider, we made it to Middle Al. for the funeral and back. The ole truck I got now has over a 106,000 miles on it, so we took it easy! My wife's aunt was the last of my wife's family on her Dad's side. She was 91.

I will keep in touch and really want to nail down a great price on one, 5 gallon pail of Parks 50. I have made up my mind. I did send another email to the local contact to see if he could get Parks 50 and if I can get any better price out of him!

Side note I gassed up when I got back to Fl. today $3.59 per gal. Approx. 17 gallons of petro cost me about $61.00. But I saw it for .10 a gallon more up country. :eek::mad:

And yes buttercup is whining again!!!!!!!!!:D
 
Just got off the phone with Maxim and Kelly--Kelly's price for a 5-gallon pail is a 150 bucks, but that's freight included. Maxim's expecting to refresh their stock Thursday or friday, but the base line old price was 86 dollars for the 5 gallon pail and then the added cost of fedex shipping, however; the sales rep I spoke with for Maxim said there'd be a Slight price increase. In that business a "slight" shift could be 10 to 20 bucks, they'll know exactly when the shipment arrives later this week.
Given that fact, it could put'em in the same price range as Kelly--just a matter if you want to wait another three days to find out.
 
Not much too add.

I did wanna just say I got my oil from Kelley Cupples and he's an A1 fella to do business with. Couldn't have been happier with the transaction and felt good about supporting one of our own in the community.

-Josh
 
Dixieblade57 said:
Side note I gassed up when I got back to Fl. today $3.59 per gal. Approx. 17 gallons of petro cost me about $61.00. But I saw it for .10 a gallon more up country. :eek::mad:
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I feel your pain! I fueled up the truck today for a trip I'm taking tomorrow. Diesel is $4.19/gallon here...$100 didn't QUITE fill the tank....Pretty soon your Parks will be cheaper than your gas, may as well buy it now before the extra $$ goes in the truck instead of the quench tank!

-d
 
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