Settled: purchase of a mini Matrix knife

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KELAMA said:
^ Just to be clear, I wasn't condoning the OP's decision to double dip with a follow up negative feedback. I've personally never left a negative feedback since becoming a member on this forum...even though I would've been just in doing so on at least a half dozen occasions. I chalked those experiences up, as just part of the BF's learning experience curve.

You are correct, RD, the seller needs to be given the opportunity to come on here and give his version of this transaction. How many times have we seen a thread do an about face? :oops:

Regardless, what ever happened to: "a deal isn't complete, until BOTH parties are happy?"
I've personally had a couple of transaction, where I've dealt with buyer's that I felt, experienced buyer's remorse and wanted to return the knives for what I considered, trivial reasons. I honored their requests on both occasions, and paid the dime for returned shipping- no questions asked.

It's clear (right or wrong), not everyone subscribes to the same sense of business ethics.
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Sadly, some people neglect to be thorough in the description of their items. They may even chose to rest on their laurels from previous deals. The used car salesman analogy wasn't too far off the mark for some folks. A deal is not complete until everyone is happy, it has mostly been a goal for people to aspire to, not a hard and fast rule.

If the buyer is not happy and wants to return the item for a legitimate reason, then a refund should be issued. Microtech warranty service seems to wax and wane. Sometimes they are excellent, other times not so much. I figure (for me anyway) that if I am about to drop over $700 on a knife from someone on a forum, I am going to ask some questions, if I do not like the sellers tone or replies, I am going to move along. I try to err on the side of caution and try not to gamble with what may be a mortgage payment valued knife.

I would also be sure what I was getting into, is it a knife model that has had any historical issues like bad lock up, lock rock, crooked blades, etc. That was what I meant by due diligence as well. I hope the seller has been made aware of this thread by now so he can choose what he wants to do (if anything at all) and if he wants his reputation tainted. There is still an untold side of the story, it would be nice to hear the entire thing.
 
OK, I am probably going to get flamed, but WTH.

1) I read the sales thread. I do not see any MISREPRESENTATION there, which is what the title of this thread states. Unless the seller and buyer privately discussed the flipping action before the sale and the seller MISREPRESENTED it (in which the OP should tell us that), then IMO this thread title is inappropriate.

For all we know the seller did not even try flipping the knife, or maybe he was fine with its action. Flipping action is often very subjective - good for you might be bad for me.

I am not saying that the seller was "right" here. And I agree with and always practiced RevDevil's rule that a deal is not completed until everyone is happy, and under the circumstances as described (we have not heard the seller's side) then I definitely would have refunded the OP's money for sure.

I am just saying I need a LOT more information before I would accuse him of MISREPRESENTING the knife.

2) Speaking of hearing the seller's side . . . if he has not done so already, IMO it is the responsibility of the OP to let the seller know that he posted this thread here so that the seller has a fair chance to tell his side.

Now . . . flame away! LOL.
 
The Virginian said:
OK, I am probably going to get flamed, but WTH.

1) I read the sales thread. I do not see any MISREPRESENTATION there, which is what the title of this thread states. Unless the seller and buyer privately discussed the flipping action before the sale and the seller MISREPRESENTED it (in which the OP should tell us that), then IMO this thread title is inappropriate.

For all we know the seller did not even try flipping the knife, or maybe he was fine with its action. Flipping action is often very subjective - good for you might be bad for me.

I am not saying that the seller was "right" here. And I agree with and always practiced RevDevil's rule that a deal is not completed until everyone is happy, and under the circumstances as described (we have not heard the seller's side) then I definitely would have refunded the OP's money for sure.

I am just saying I need a LOT more information before I would accuse him of MISREPRESENTING the knife.

2) Speaking of hearing the seller's side . . . if he has not done so already, IMO it is the responsibility of the OP to let the seller know that he posted this thread here so that the seller has a fair chance to tell his side.

Now . . . flame away! LOL.
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I agree about the subjectivity of acceptable flipping action. However, the OP's issue with the knife was about the lock stick, not flipping action.

The amount of acceptable lock stick varies from person to person. I personally don't mind a little, yet I can tell when it is there and if I am selling or trading that particular knife I will let the other party know. With that info, they can make an informed decision if it will be something they can live with or not. This may be painting a broad brush, but if someone has handled a decent amount of frame locks, liner locks, etc (especially when you've sold multiple high dollar examples) then they should have some clue of what lock stick is, when it is present and then disclose it within a sale.

Now to your point if it was misrepresented or not. Looking at the sales thread I don't see any representation of the condition of the knives at all. All that is mentioned in the sale is what the knife is, price, and terms of the sale. If this issue is actually present, then I think it is fair to call it a misrepresentation due to omission, whether or not it was left out intentionally.

It would be nice to hear the other side.


Edit to add: Forgot to say that you are correct that we don't know exactly what was said privately and that could very well sway the opinion of the peanut gallery one way or the other.
 
Thank you ALL for your feedback on this issue. I was NOT aware about the feedback posting a second time. The site let me do it, so I thought it was ok?
I do not want to be dinged for it, because I did not know. I enjoy using this BF site for my knife dealings. Thanks, Robert
 
I don't know... I don't like that the seller was told that the buyer wasn't happy with the knife they bought and tried to resolve/dismiss the issue by telling them to deal with the manufacturer instead of taking the knife back and issuing a return.

This is not the type of person that I would like to deal with in the future.

That being said, I do want to hear what he (the seller) has to say.
 
ap1169 said:
Thank you ALL for your feedback on this issue. I was NOT aware about the feedback posting a second time. The site let me do it, so I thought it was ok?
I do not want to be dinged for it, because I did not know. I enjoy using this BF site for my knife dealings. Thanks, Robert
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Did you tell the seller that you started this thread here so he has a fair opportunity to present his side?
 
OP, you bought the knife on Wednesday and apparently received it on Friday. Why did you leave your initial feedback before even seeing the knife? I always leave feedback, but it would never occur to me to do so before having the knife in hand for a day or more.

I made a couple purchases that went a little sideways, but took the time to consider how to approach the issue with the seller and exchanged a few PMs in both cases before we reached a state of agreement. One of those resolutions took a couple days and the other a week. On the day you received the knife you had an unsatisfactory exchange with the seller, left a second negative feedback, and came here to GBU to air your issue in public.

It would make more sense to me to work a bit longer to come to an amicable solution in private than to fan the flames in an open forum.
 
benchwarmer380 said:
I agree about the subjectivity of acceptable flipping action. However, the OP's issue with the knife was about the lock stick, not flipping action.

The amount of acceptable lock stick varies from person to person. I personally don't mind a little, yet I can tell when it is there and if I am selling or trading that particular knife I will let the other party know. With that info, they can make an informed decision if it will be something they can live with or not. This may be painting a broad brush, but if someone has handled a decent amount of frame locks, liner locks, etc (especially when you've sold multiple high dollar examples) then they should have some clue of what lock stick is, when it is present and then disclose it within a sale.

Now to your point if it was misrepresented or not. Looking at the sales thread I don't see any representation of the condition of the knives at all. All that is mentioned in the sale is what the knife is, price, and terms of the sale. If this issue is actually present, then I think it is fair to call it a misrepresentation due to omission, whether or not it was left out intentionally.

It would be nice to hear the other side.


Edit to add: Forgot to say that you are correct that we don't know exactly what was said privately and that could very well sway the opinion of the peanut gallery one way or the other.
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I stand corrected. You're right - it was lock stick. My bad. I really don't know where I got that. I think maybe I was confused by the statement that the seller told him to just keep flipping the knife and it would smooth out, which I think is sometimes true with the flipping action, but I have never seen any amount of lock stick get better that way (I think often it gets worse with more flipping). Anyway, again, I stand corrected.

But I think that lock stick is also very often subjective (and sometimes it is so bad that it is objectively bad) and it can even change depending on if someone tends to flip the knife open hard where it might be apparent and a problem, or more gently where it might not be noticeable at all (at least to me). So, again, it may be an issue to one person and not to another.

Without more information, based only on what has been posted here, I am not willing to accuse someone of misrepresentation for that, because to me that is a very serious charge. Obviously YMMV.

But I think we both agree that, based only on the side of the story we have heard here, the seller should have refunded - as we would have. And even worse, the seller telling the buyer to send the knife back to the manufacturer . . . that is total BS. Crap move and totally unacceptable. Would still like to hear the seller's side (if he has one to tell).
 
ap1169 said:
I purchased this mini Matrix http://www.bladeforums.com/threads/marfiones-for-sale-2-sigils-and-1-anax.1486846/#post-17098872. When I received this knife it had pretty bad lock stick. I contacted Bob, the seller, to ask why it was not disclosed to me at purchase. He said that it was NEW and needed to be broken it. He said to just keep flipping the knife and it would smooth out. Well, That is what I did, and not relief from the stick. I asked to return the knife, which met with great resistance. He said to send it to Microtech for repair. I contacted Microtech and was told it would take 6 to 8 weeks and shipping both ways for the repairs. This is NOT fair. I purchased this knife in good faith and receive this type of service. He will probably leave NEGATIVE feedback for me over this issue. He wanted me to give him feedback which I did, which was positive, but he would not leave any for me. I have 35 positive feedbacks now and no negative. The seller has the same number. Your decision to believe me or not is up to you. I try to be the best BF purchaser I can be.
FYI, Pease be careful when dealing with this individual. Thank you, Robert
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There are inaccurate comments the op has made and I don't know where to start. for one, he received the knife, thanked me, told me it was "a nice little knife" and left me positive feedback (which I never requested as he states above). there are two sides to every story and I posted mine below. If he would have received the knife, stated he had an issue and would like a refund you would not be reading this now. His antics since receiving the knife are confusing and having the time pass before asking for a refund is disconcerting to say the least. who knows maybe he will leave me good feedback again tomorrow.
 
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Thanks for the clarification. It helps. Please provide anything else that can help get this issue clarified.
 
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I am the poor SOB who sold the op the knife and wish I didn't, I have owned several Mini Micros in the past and this particular knife impressed me because the action was so clean, I would flip it while working at my desk, know the knife well and never would expect this to be the knife in the center of controversy. With this being said, the op received the knife and gave me positive feedback, he also emailed me and thanked me. some time passed and he emails me saying that it has a minor blade stick so I told him it may not be completely broken in and if this is the case I would apply some Sharpie to the lock-face, rent a movie or watch some TV and flip the knife until it subsides. This is what has been suggested to me by makers (Greg Medford & Jeff Vandermeulen) in the past and I have been successful in the past. Blade stick is common but the strangest thing was that I had probably flipped this knife 50 times or more and never noticed any stick.

Now the story takes a left turn, I receive another email telling me the knife is "tight" and he now wants a refund. I don't know what he has done in this time to change his story to "tight" and made no mention of blade stick, just being "tight" (whatever that means). he then tries to convince me that it isn't buyer's remorse which I never mentioned (until later). I do believe this simply is buyer's remorse and if I didn't I would have reacted differently.
 
Please read my reply to the OP's post, there is more history and time passed than he is representing, this was not a simple, receipt and request. if it was the result would have been a refund and I do contest there being any issue with the knife in the first place.
 
The Virginian said:
OK, I am probably going to get flamed, but WTH.

1) I read the sales thread. I do not see any MISREPRESENTATION there, which is what the title of this thread states. Unless the seller and buyer privately discussed the flipping action before the sale and the seller MISREPRESENTED it (in which the OP should tell us that), then IMO this thread title is inappropriate.

For all we know the seller did not even try flipping the knife, or maybe he was fine with its action. Flipping action is often very subjective - good for you might be bad for me.

I am not saying that the seller was "right" here. And I agree with and always practiced RevDevil's rule that a deal is not completed until everyone is happy, and under the circumstances as described (we have not heard the seller's side) then I definitely would have refunded the OP's money for sure.

I am just saying I need a LOT more information before I would accuse him of MISREPRESENTING the knife.

2) Speaking of hearing the seller's side . . . if he has not done so already, IMO it is the responsibility of the OP to let the seller know that he posted this thread here so that the seller has a fair chance to tell his side.

Now . . . flame away! LOL.
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Agreed, flipping action is very subjective and this is my basis, I enjoyed the action of this knife but I made a decision to focus on other makers and as you can see have been selling off all of my Marfione/Microtech knives. What is staggering to me is that the OP gave me good feedback and emailed me a thank you for the knife then does this about face.
 
FYI: Below is a video link for the knife in question, please watch this and critic because this flame job is undeserved. This is the knife just before shipping, I video the knives I am selling and offer the link upon request. if the link fails let me know and I will repost, watch the unlocking carefully and look for the stick. I don't see it and why would I disclose something I don't believe exist? I would like to clear this up but I can't refund this guy, there is something off about his approach and I have a feeling he tampered with the knife because it functioned as you would expect, even better.

 
It is my experience that lock stick goes away as the lockbar is worn to a surface which matches the tang of the knife more exactly. Once it reaches that point the stick seems to largely stop.

Not taking either side here.
 
I am OK with the sales thread. Up to the buyer to ask the right questions is my personal stance. I recently received a blade with the worst example of lock stick I have experienced in that respective make/model. I let the seller know before breaking the knife down and fixing the problem. Seller was polite, but did not offer a refund (nor did I request one). I left positive feedback regardless as due diligence on my part was not fulfilled.
 
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Krinsky1965 said:
FYI: Below is a video link for the knife in question, please watch this and critic because this flame job is undeserved. This is the knife just before shipping, I video the knives I am selling and offer the link upon request. if the link fails let me know and I will repost, watch the unlocking carefully and look for the stick. I don't see it and why would I disclose something I don't believe exist? I would like to clear this up but I can't refund this guy, there is something off about his approach and I have a feeling he tampered with the knife because it functioned as you would expect, even better.
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^ Thanks for coming on here and posting your side to this. Can either you or the OP, post the communication exchange between the two of you? It would be helpful if the buyer would likewise post a video of the issues he's complaining of having.

^ Question: did you sell this knife via the PP Goods option?

adamlau said:
I am OK with the sales thread. Up to the buyer to ask the right questions is my personal stance. I recently received a blade with the worst example of lock stick I have experienced in that respective make/model. I let the seller know before breaking the knife down and fixing the problem. Seller was polite, but did not offer a refund (nor did I request one). I left positive feedback regardless as due diligence on my part was not fulfilled.
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In my opinion, it's the sellers responsibility, to accurately/honestly disclose the condition of the item he's selling.
 
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Though the lack of details is regrettable, the recommended (potential) buyer reaction is to inquire about the desired product either privately, or publicly. Let us examine SECTION 2 - Rules/Procedures for Selling, Buying, Trading, & Offering Services where the seller is recommended to "mention defects" with pessimism. The seller clearly did not feel there was a defect and hence was not obligated to disclose that which he feel did not exist. On the other hand, buyers are obligated to "[a]sk any questions needed before the deal is agreed upon...".
 
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It is funny you ask, I attempted to copy and paste the email chain last night which I feel shows fairly for both of us how things transpired but I was unable to directly paste. I will try it again this afternoon after we complete our family activities, I am sure there is a way to do it. I stumbled upon this thread late last night and was blown away. I thought I had to be notified prior to being slaughtered by my once satisfied buyer. I feel badly that this was all going on behind my back. The last email I received from the OP read as follows, "thank you for the feedback ", the entire sequence of events is weird and distasteful to myself. The conduct of the OP was manic at best and I did not refund him due to this behavior. I honestly believe if there is a flaw to the knife, he did it himself. Maybe he can video post the current condition of the knife, can he? I may have to request this because it is only fair.

I want all to know at the time of the sale this knife had no flaws I was aware of and The video post of the knife (which is dated) clearly shows a knife functionally intact and without noticeable flaw. This isn't a knife which was haphazardly posted without inspection, this was my desktop fidget toy for a few weeks and I know it well.
 
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