Share your titanium secrets with me...Please.

Bob Ohlemann

Bob Ohlemann

Joined
Dec 5, 2013
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I have finished the preliminary design of my first folder and am starting to make some mock-ups. I am going to make the slabs out of .204" 6-4 titanium. I have never worked the stuff before so I am looking for any and all pointers on hand working and machining. There will be plenty of both on the project.

Bob
 
I'll let the folder folks comment on construction tips, but .204" sounds very thick for liners/sides. I would think half that would still be thicker than needed.
 
Grind slow, use sharp belts, don't let it spark, use plenty of ventilation, use sharp end mills/bits and drill slow...

Check regularly for flatness during folder making

.200" will be thick and harder to work with than thinner... just use sharp tooling and it should go well.

I do lots of filing, foredom work and hand sanding... once again just use sharp everything. Redline sandpaper works great.
 
Daniel Fairly Knives said:
Grind slow, use sharp belts, don't let it spark, use plenty of ventilation, use sharp end mills/bits and drill slow...

Check regularly for flatness during folder making

.200" will be thick and harder to work with than thinner... just use sharp tooling and it should go well.

I do lots of filing, foredom work and hand sanding... once again just use sharp everything. Redline sandpaper works great.
Click to expand...

+1 on this.

0.200 isn't too thick if you are just doing full scales.

Another thing worth mentioning is WHEN the titanium gets hot, you do need to submerse it in your quench bucket for a lot longer than steel since it seems to want to hold heat.

When anodizing, I usually wash with acetone and gloves so no oils transfer to the TI or it will get streaks in the finish.
 
Alright, good stuff. Here's some questions. Can I cut a lockbar slot on a scroll saw if I use a carbide or diamond blade? Can I surface grind Ti? Anyone ever try using a router to knock the edge off Ti? I use a router quite a bit on 6061 and CF but wonder how much trouble I'd be in for trying it in Ti. For tooling, is there a coating that works best? Is kool-mist effective on titanium? Thanks for the help guys.

Bob
 
RangerBobTX said:
Alright, good stuff. Here's some questions. Can I cut a lockbar slot on a scroll saw if I use a carbide or diamond blade? Can I surface grind Ti? Anyone ever try using a router to knock the edge off Ti? I use a router quite a bit on 6061 and CF but wonder how much trouble I'd be in for trying it in Ti. For tooling, is there a coating that works best? Is kool-mist effective on titanium? Thanks for the help guys.

Bob
Click to expand...

Never tried lockbars with a scroll saw. Most people use a metal cut off wheel (usually for a dremel and take it slow in a drill press). Yes you can surface grind Ti. Yes you can use carbide bits in a router to chamfer Ti. I have found that carbide is the absolute best for tooling but I have used Ti-nitrite coated bits w/ lots of cutting fluid on titanium and it can work. I had the chance to use kool-mist at a buddies house on some Ti and it seemed to perform well. I think he said that he uses a higher water ratio or something but I may be wrong.

Hope this help.
 
Titanium dust and chips will burn like magnesium, very hot and bright, and creating nasty gas. When it burns it is plenty bright enough to burn your eyes. The fine dust will coat spiderwebs in the bottom corner of my shop door, which can ignite like web-shaped fireworks! It's best not to let the shavings concentrate anywhere.

I use a lot of steady pressure and force when grinding on it with ceramic belts, at a slow speed, and cobalt drill bits at slow speed/high pressure. Even though it's not super hard stuff, it has it's own special galling-dead-weight way of wrecking anything that tries to move it!
 
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The way I grind usually leaves a pile of Ti dust on my work rest after every pass... I keep a scrap of steel as a "sweeper" to clean it after nearly every pass. If it catches fire it will weld itself into a bead... you do not want to look at the burning Ti and really don't want it to burn you! Keep that stuff cleaned up, it is a big fire hazard.

You can surface grind Ti, I don't have a surface grinder so I hand lap on granite with 120 grit. It works pretty well but takes time.

Router bits - no experience here... I tried to set up a carbide burr on my mill kind of like a router and apparently it can work well but did not for me...

Moly-Dee for tapping but I do not use any coolant, Ti likes to be be worked cool though.
 
The way I understand it titanium will burn so hot that if you put water on it when its burning the oxygen will evaporate from the water and it will flare up. That means if a real fire breaks out a waterhose wont work to put it out , neither will an ordinary fire extinguisher. You need a class D fire extinguisher (or a bucket of sand??).
A couple weeks ago I had a handful of titanium shavings and wanted to see if sand will work to put a titanium fire out. I put the shavings on the ground and lit it with a torch and it started glowing real bright, well first I wanted to see it flare up when I put water on it so after the titanium had been burning for only about 2 seconds I poured a cup of water on it .... and the fire went out.
Lesson learned- if you are real quick to get water on it, it will put the fire out. I still dont know for sure if sand will work? I dont have anymore shavings to try
 
My tooling and materials are starting to arrive. I switched to .125" titanium for the side plates and since I couldn't find standoffs and stop pins in the size I wanted I just ordered stock to make my own.

Got another question though; what kind of taps will work best in Ti? Right now, I don't see any reason to tap the titanium but, if I decide to change something in my design, I would likely be tapping 4-40 through threads. I hate using such small taps but it seems the nature of the beast in folders. I'm thinking about getting a bench top hand tapper to aid in straightness and flexibility though I could power-tap on my mill also. Do you guys have a favorite type of tap for Ti?

Bob
 
I like Balax brand Thread Forming Taps for Ti with Moly-Dee tapping fluid.

Thread forming taps are great on Ti as they move metal instead of cutting it. Be sure to download a chart for the taps you are using, Balax has their own tap chart. For 4-40 you will need #38 bit.

4-40 will tap nicely if you prep well. (clean holes, slight chamfer, no chips or burrs)
 
What kind of knife are you making (tactical)?

How long is the blade?

The style and size of the knife can have an impact on the thickness of the titanium and size of the screws you use.

Chuck
 
Daniel Fairly Knives said:
I like Balax brand Thread Forming Taps for Ti with Moly-Dee tapping fluid.

Thread forming taps are great on Ti as they move metal instead of cutting it. Be sure to download a chart for the taps you are using, Balax has their own tap chart. For 4-40 you will need #38 bit.

4-40 will tap nicely if you prep well. (clean holes, slight chamfer, no chips or burrs)
Click to expand...

I am familiar with the Balax thread forming taps though I've only used them in CNC applications. Are you power tapping or hand tapping with them?

Chuck, I've attached my drawings for my concept. Overall length open is 7.76", blade is 3.75" from center of pivot to tip. I plan to have a blade thickness of .125" with .005" PB shims on either side. Pivot is 3/16", stop pin is 3/16" and the standoffs will be 3/16". The stop pin will be set into blind holes on each slab. The standoffs will be machined to a length of .135" and tapped 4-40 to accept the assembly screws. The chainring bolt shown in the drawing will just be another standoff until I can find the right hardware. This is just a working drawing to get me going on my first folder. I am sure there will need to be adjustments as I go. I am open to any suggestions.

Bob

FOLDER-IDEAS by Ranger_Bob, on Flickr
 
With the blade thickness of .125", .204" titanium is too thick. You made the right choice changing to thinner titanium.

The blade to handle ratio is too small. If you moved the pivot forward you would get a longer blade within the same handle.

Do you intend for the knife to be a flipper?

Chuck
 
I use titanium in every folder I make. Sure most of my knives are collector grade and are not used but some are taken to the field and used. Since I like scales and bolsters I can use thinner titanium which is usually .058 to .062 in thickness. My screw sizes are usually 0 X 80 on the more fancy knives and 2 X 56 on the more EDCs. On the 0 X80 I use a 55 to make the hole and am taping this with a self reversing machine but have done thousands with a piloted tap that fits in the chuck of my drill press and is turned by hand. For the 2 X 56 the drill bit is a no. 50. My taps are of the regular cutting type. All my titanium and I often use it for back bars as well, comes from Alpha Knife Supply usually in their Knifemaker Grade to save me some finishing work. Frank
 
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Frank Niro said:
I use titanium in every folder I make. Sure most of my knives are collector grade and are not used but some are taken to the field and used. Since I like scales and bolsters I can use thinner titanium which is usually .058 to .062 in thickness. My screw sizes are usually 0 X 80 on the more fancy knives and 2 X 56 on the more EDCs. On the 0 X80 I use a 55 to make the hole and am not taping this with a self reversing machine but have done thousands with a piloted tap that fits in the chuck of my drill press and is turned by hand. For the 2 X 56 the drill bit is a no. 50. My taps are of the regular cutting type. All my titanium and I often use it for back bars as well, comes from Alpha Knife Supply usually in their Knifemaker Grade to save me some finishing work. Frank
Click to expand...

Thanks Frank. Lots of useful information there.

Alpha Knife Supply said:
With the blade thickness of .125", .204" titanium is too thick. You made the right choice changing to thinner titanium.

The blade to handle ratio is too small. If you moved the pivot forward you would get a longer blade within the same handle.

Do you intend for the knife to be a flipper?

Chuck
Click to expand...

Chuck, thanks for the advice. I thought the blade proportion seemed too small but it hadn't occurred to me to move the pivot point forward. I do intend it to be a flipper.

Bob
 
FTO_dude said:
Bearings mate!

and the lockbar cut should be longer
Click to expand...

Though I am sure I will try bearings eventually, I'm not going there on my first folder. I foresee the lockbar giving me fits.

I reworked the drawing with some of the advise I've received here. I made a lot of small changes and though it doesn't look much different, it does look quite a bit better.

Bob

FOLDER-IDEAS2 by Ranger_Bob, on Flickr
 
Great advice ^


(EDIT NOTE - posted at the same time as above pics... looking great!)

looking good! random thoughts... on pics in post #13

1. move pivot forward

2. move pivot down a bit (after step one and two make sure you have washer clearance)

3. it will flip faster if you move the stop pin forward of the pivot... (11 o'clock compared to the 1 o'clock it is now)

4. I'm just mentioning this... washers should be silky smooth and work well if everything is nice and parallel/centered. I get way more friction from my ceramic detent ball and use PB washers.

5. I second the longer lock bar

6. make a bunch! :D
 
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