Sharpening Beginner's First Day

My first diamond stone was a Smith combo (diamond stone, two ceramic sticks and a pull through carbide edge eater).

I got a lot of sharpening out of that stone!!!!!
Years and years!! The initial deep scratches "bite" went away, but I got good, consistent sharpening for a long time.

I now have three diamond hand held hones when I need to set an initial bevel.

Mostly I keep the edges touched up on a Spyderco set of triangle rods (medium and fine).

I also have a 2x72 belt sander if I need to do serious work.
 
Mister Coffee said:
enough to cut copy paper — somewhat.
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zwilling henckels uses the same steel for its knives (says burrfection), i sharpen it a lot. it's ductile steel. after cutting paper shine a flashlight onto the apex, as if you were to slice the flashlight beam in the beam's direction (like cutting a cucumber longitudinally).

if much light reflects back into flashlight's direction (your eyes are level with flashlight) , it's paper fibres caught at the apex by burr.

it's not too easy to deburr ductile steels !
 
kreisler said:
Toothy edge means "a toothy apex" (resulting from coarse secondary bevel finish), correct?
Then this is nothing one would encounter on any commercial blade (razor, utility blade, spyderco, chef knife, etc). Commercial blades have rough finishes on the secondary bevel but their apex is straight\smooth not toothy, and i find that fascinating.

And it's hard to imagine an apex to be sharp between the teeth.

Ah never mind, i just don't get the concept of toothy edges. If the finish of the secondary bevel is coarse, then that's actually helpful for cutting performance. But imho the apex should always be smooth , straight, unragged, non toothy.

Never mind.
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Think of it this way - ALL edges sharpened with abrasives - even mirror polished edges - are toothy, but the sharp ones are only toothy on a microscopic level. I’d consider most factory knife edges to be “toothy” unless they’re actually highly polished.
Mister Coffee said:
Blues Blues : Makes good sense. This knife wasn't slicing through paper when I finished. But it's a crappy knife, and it probably needs what you old pro's would call "repair" of the edge and not just "sharpening." And I'm still on the Course stone. Think I should go to the Extra Fine (the only other stone I have) tomorrow, or redo the edge on the Course stone?
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Do you have any other non-expensive knives that aren’t in need of “repair”? Maybe start over on one of them. It’s possible the knife you’re working on is poorly hardened and therefore almost impossible to properly sharpen...
Consider learning using a larger box cutter, etc. with a brand new blade, or just continue on with your current knife, and try the following:
Drag it lightly and perpendicularly across your fine stone to dull the blade.
Then imho comes the secret weapon of sharpening: FIND THE REFLECTION made by sunlight or a bright flashlight hitting the freshly dulled edge. This reflection will not be visible once the knife is sharp. Once you can reliably visualize this reflection on any knife (usually will just show up as bright spots where there are small dings), you’ll be able to sharpen them away. Once the reflections are gone you have an apex and the edge should be starting to feel sharp/cut paper, even from the coarse stone. If not, you may still have a burr that is folding over. Good luck!!🍀

Edit to add: I’d accidentally only read the first page of this thread when I responded - my apologies for repeating some of what was already written above. Also as mentioned - be patient - it’s not an easy skill to master.
 
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A Alberta Ed : I wish I knew what grit it is. It's a 6-in. DMT Dia-Sharp Course. It's supposed to be 45 micron / 325 mesh. I'd put a link here, but I don't think I'm supposed to.
 
Okay, sports fans, here's a new issue. I hate my Extra Fine stone. The feedback is terrible. Like trying to sharpen on a slab of Jell-O. Maybe it's me. Maybe Extra Fine is supposed to feel that way. Or maybe the stone is loaded up with swarf (even though I washed it). Or maybe the stone is ruined because I didn't handle it correctly.

Ugh! There are so many variables!
 
Mister Coffee said:
A Alberta Ed : I wish I knew what grit it is. It's a 6-in. DMT Dia-Sharp Course. It's supposed to be 45 micron / 325 mesh. I'd put a link here, but I don't think I'm supposed to.
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You've got the correct info. DMT Coarse is 325-mesh (45 micron). DMT's grit chart is below:

dmt-grit-chart-2014.jpg
 
Mister Coffee said:
Obsessed with Edges Obsessed with Edges : So, "mesh" equals "grit"?
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They're often used to convey the same thing but the grit actually refers to the size of the abrasive, whereas mesh relates to the size of the grit / abrasive which would fit through a screen which was filtering the particles at a given size. (So, anything that size or smaller would filter through the screen.)

For practical purposes, many folks use them the same way, however.
 
Blues said:
They're often used to convey the same thing but the grit actually refers to the size of the abrasive, whereas mesh relates to the size of the grit / abrasive which would fit through a screen which was filtering the particles at a given size. (So, anything that size or smaller would filter through the screen.)

For practical purposes, many folks use them the same way, however.
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What he^ said. :thumbsup:

'Mesh' is what DMT uses to grade their grit. It's also a plus that they specify a nominal size in microns for each of the mesh ratings. Many mfrs. don't do that, and instead rely upon ambiguous 'grit' ratings, which often aren't specificly linked to a known standard, like ANSI, FEPA, JIS, etc. With some mfrs, it often seems like their 'grit' ratings are arbitrary, as they often don't link them to a universal standard. At least with the mesh rating and the micron specs, it's easier to get a sense of what size grit you're getting.
 
Mister Coffee said:
Okay, sports fans, here's a new issue. I hate my Extra Fine stone. The feedback is terrible. Like trying to sharpen on a slab of Jell-O. Maybe it's me. Maybe Extra Fine is supposed to feel that way. Or maybe the stone is loaded up with swarf (even though I washed it). Or maybe the stone is ruined because I didn't handle it correctly.

Ugh! There are so many variables!
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Highly recommend Spyderco ceramic stones. I've had great results with it coming from the sharpmaker and also a worksharp precision adjust, where I didn't get quite the results I wanted.

I'm consistently shaving sharp coming off the medium stone and then use the fine.

Debating on getting the ultra fine.(probably will, I'm getting talked into it on Facebook)
 
J jaydiggz : I bought the Double Stuff (303MF) and the Ultra Fine Benchstone (306UF). The Double Stuff is not really what I need since it is hand-held and intended for touch-ups on the go. The Ultra Fine I haven' tried out yet.

Funny you should mention the Sharpmaker. I was just thinking of getting one, and maybe I will. It seems to be a great system. However, I would sort of like to learn free-hand sharpening. I just don't know if I want to spend the $$$$ that it would take to get the full free-hand education.
 
Mister Coffee said:
J jaydiggz : I bought the Double Stuff (303MF) and the Ultra Fine Benchstone (306UF). The Double Stuff is not really what I need since it is hand-held and intended for touch-ups on the go. The Ultra Fine I haven' tried out yet.

Funny you should mention the Sharpmaker. I was just thinking of getting one, and maybe I will. It seems to be a great system. However, I would sort of like to learn free-hand sharpening. I just don't know if I want to spend the $$$$ that it would take to get the full free-hand education.
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Fortunately, there is a reasonable middle ground.

You can use the diamond / coarser hones to repair or sharpen a dull or dullish blade, and bring it to the point we've discussed earlier where you raise the burr on one side, repeat on the other and attempt to remove (most of) the burr.

Now...you take your sharpish, (by your current standard), knife to the Sharpmaker and finish on the 20 degree (40 degree inclusive) setting. The Sharpmaker will quickly put an even bevel (or microbevel) on your work...and...done.

You should be cleanly slicing telephone book paper.

When the blades are not particularly dull, (or need simple maintenance), you can accomplish everything on the Sharpmaker alone.

It's a reasonable option if you are comfortable getting the grunt work done on your bench stones. And it's not a particularly expensive solution.
 
Mister Coffee said:
J jaydiggz : I bought the Double Stuff (303MF) and the Ultra Fine Benchstone (306UF). The Double Stuff is not really what I need since it is hand-held and intended for touch-ups on the go. The Ultra Fine I haven' tried out yet.

Funny you should mention the Sharpmaker. I was just thinking of getting one, and maybe I will. It seems to be a great system. However, I would sort of like to learn free-hand sharpening. I just don't know if I want to spend the $$$$ that it would take to get the full free-hand education.
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I spent no money on education. I watched plenty of YouTube videos and read plenty of articles online.
I was able to sharpen my knives the very first time they touched a stone.


This video as well as burrfections videos I found super useful. Also check out Randy Johnson, Micheal Christy's videos and rough rooster sharpening.

You don't have to spend a cent on the education and theory of it. Get the ceramic stones and develop muscle memory.

CONSISTENCY matters more than edge angle. I use my thumb to maintain a consistent angle and to gauge the approximate angle.
 
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Blues Blues J jaydiggz : Thanks for those replies. :)

One Question: Convex edges. If you are using a consistent angle on free-hand bench stones, or on a guided system, you are ruining the convex and replacing it with a bevel. Or have I got this all wrong?
 
The human body can only maintain consistency within certain parameters and will never hold the angle consistent enough to generate a perfectly flat V bevel.
From what I understand all freehanding leads to a convex edge of some sort.
 
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