Sharpening equipment question

Wowbagger said:
HeavyHanded,



I must say I am surprised. More than surprised.
As cutting "oil" is nothing like lubricating oil . . . sharpening fluid "oil" is nothing like . . . well . . . lubricating oil.

Kerosene really is much closer to say . . . Buck sharpening stone oil than is mineral oil "Baby Oil" from the pharmacy.

To start I would go MUCH lighter weight, runnier, closer to water than motor oil and really the whole point is to have a fluid that secondarily doesn't initiate rusting of the blade but primarily it should float metal swarf out of the pores of the stone while allowing the grit of the stone to get a good bite on the steel. I find mineral oil, basically motor oil, to get a bit gummy once it gets some house dust on it. The kerosene easily cleans and floats all that off and then gets out of the way of the cutting edges of the grit of the stone.

AwwwwdnO dude.
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It never fails to strike me how different folks impressions are on this topic.

I've tried lamp oil, pure silicone oil, mineral oil, and a bunch of other blends now forgotten. Am pretty sure Norton's honing oil is a thin grade of mineral oil.

What I find is the pharmacy mineral oil breaks down into lower viscosity as its worked, so the initial thickness of it helps keep it in place. It is also viscous enough to actively float a lot of debris right off the surface rather than just help prevent abrasive glazing or impacting into the pores. It actually (and I cannot explain how this happens) encourages mineral break out from the stone - the refresh rate goes up. Not all oils have this effect, and water almost not at all. The surface of my oil stones improve with time, and stay an almost velvety texture. I've never noticed it getting gummy over time, maybe an additive in the brand you tried? Most of the time I don't even wrap mine in paper between use, they sit on the shelf next my unused waterstones.

Its cheap, edible and odor free. I cannot imagine using kerosene or similar, or water based cleaning products for that matter - my hands take enough of a beating and the wife would give me the stink eye if I showed up in the kitchen with a smell and began sharpening away.

On stones such as Arkansas or other fine grained stones a thinner oil is definitely called for if available, but on combination SiC or India stones in my experience the mineral oil does all I could ask with no downsides aside from the odd spot on the front of my shirt if I get careless.

Ah well, to the OP - try some stuff and go with what works for you.
 
Lately, I've been using Norton's honing oil on a few of my oilstones (Ark, SiC & AlOx). It's quality stuff, and very light; doesn't get 'gummy' as mentioned. In fact, in letting my stones sit for a couple or three days after use, they even seem dry to the touch and it's difficult to tell if they've been oiled at all. It's NOWHERE CLOSE to resembling motor oil, either in viscosity, color or odor. This is another reason a quality light mineral oil (often called 'white' mineral oil) is advantageous, as the Norton oil is completely odorless, colorless and very 'clean' (food-safe, specifically).

It's also very easy to clean the stones after use. Having used mineral oil-based hand lotion regularly, it's easily cleaned up with some liquid dish detergent and water. I know this, based on how dry my hands get after doing dishes or whatever with the dish detergent, which necessitates immediate reapplication of the hand lotion to keep my fingertips and knuckles from splitting open here in the desert southwest. I use the dish detergent with hot water and an old toothbrush to clean the stones after they've had some heavier use. No issues at all with the stones getting gummy or clogged, when used and cleaned in this manner.


David
 
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Martin, David,

I can't find the so called 'mineral oil' at pharmacy. I went with baby oil (Johnson was the common one). In term of viscosity and ability to clean swarf, etc., is it the same? If not, how much different?
 
Baby oil has fragrance added. I know sometimes this could be a fragrance infused oil of some sort. Is possible it could leave a residue on the stone but will probably work fine (and have a calming odor) :)
 
Chris "Anagarika";16257436 said:
Martin, David,

I can't find the so called 'mineral oil' at pharmacy. I went with baby oil (Johnson was the common one). In term of viscosity and ability to clean swarf, etc., is it the same? If not, how much different?
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Pretty close, in terms of viscosity. If you're OK with the scent, I'd think it should work pretty well. I once tried baby oil for sharpening and it was fine for that, but I couldn't stand the scent; it drives my sinuses crazy and sometimes even makes my eyes burn. And the smell of it would linger in my sinuses for hours after I'd finished using it and cleaned up. I have the same sinus sensitivity to most any artificially-scented products these days, so I avoid them like the plague, when possible.

I've also used some 'white mineral oil lubricant' marketed for use in kitchen/food prep machinery (slicers, meat grinders, etc). It's specifically labelled with CAS# 8042-47-5, which is a code designated for incidental food contact/kitchen use, including 'USP' products like the pharmacy stuff. Picked it up at a restaurant supply store in my area, in 16 oz. bottles for maybe $6-$8 or so (don't remember specifically, but it didn't seem unreasonably priced). I've also found it to be very 'clean' and completely odorless, and very close to the light viscosity of the Norton oil, maybe a little heavier. The same restaurant supply house also carries some 'honing oil' in their cutlery section, and I'm reasonably sure it's also the so-called 'white' or 'light' mineral oil and food-safe as well. Haven't tried it yet, but I may get around to it.


David
 
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Put me in the "light oil is better" category. I've tried mineral oil, then switched to Simple Green, (which I think works better than Mineral Oil), then light oil after trying Honing Oil. Then got Baby Oil, which I think works as well as Honing Oil but cheaper. I like Simple Green because it's less of a mess than oil, but found Light Oil / Baby Oil the best for sharpening results, and keeping the stone cleanest.

Would still rather have a Waterstone though... ;)
 
Martin, David,

Thanks. It shows one man's bless is another curse. I happen to like the scent, while David has problem with it triggering sinus. In any case, I used it to smoothen my edge leading stroke on my DMT EEF. Quite nice. The 'vacuum' effect is also helpful to tell my bevel is flushed.
 
but I couldn't stand the scent (of baby oil)
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Oh I agree, that and baby powder . . . nasty stuff.

Simple Green
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For me Simple Green is almost poisonous. Gets in my windpipe and produces a very uncomfortable effect. I once used it to restore an MG car and since then cannot be in the same room with it let alone use it. I use citrus degreaser, Zep brand, in stead. To clean with, not on stones. No problem at all after a decade of near daily use.

they sit on the shelf next my unused waterstones.
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:)
Really I have no business talking about oil stones since I don't use them. I can only repeat what the woodworker chat room guys said about theirs. So HeavyHanded I will have to bow to your expertise.

As far as dishwashing I can recommend these gloves. Allows me to use very hot water. Way, way, way longer lasting than the ladies grocery store gloves and they come in large sizes these size 10 are quite large.
I buy them by the dozen and use them at work as well.
 
Well, I've tried the dishwasher and the boil method(propped the stone up with forks) and what used to be the coarse side is now an extra fine side... FML...

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nhyrum said:
Well, I've tried the dishwasher and the boil method(propped the stone up with forks) and what used to be the coarse side is now an extra fine side... FML...

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How much did you use it before boiling?

If the coarse side is smooth, its been glazed or came that way from the factory - the abrasives wore dull faster than they broke out to expose fresh abrasives.

You can use a bunch of sand, water, and a flat stretch of concrete sidewalk to recondition the surface, both sides. Move it a figure 8 pattern - making sure plenty of water at the contact area. A minute or three per side should work, don't be afraid to lean on it a little.

I know lots of people do not use oil, but preventing glazing is the #1 reason I do.
 
About an hour or so. I also tried soaking it in 409. I'll try the concrete method, I tried using my Smith's coarse diamond stone, but that didn't help either

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Make sure to use a loose grit with the concrete - fixed abrasive surfaces will glaze it even worse or at least not help it at all.
 
I just use a Spyderco sharpener, and am pleased with the results. What am I missing? Maybe it is just a subjective definition of sharp. Comments?
 
I'm just the kind of guy that likes to be able to do things the stone age way first. Learned gas welding first, then the newer, better, etc ways. Learn to drive on a stick before automatic, I guess doing things that way forces you to learn what's really going on and understand it in practice.

I want to learn to sharpen on a stone, freehand, then I'll get a sharp maker, edge pro or wicked edge sharpening system

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I'd get a dMt 8 coarse if on a budget get the 6 inch , or the extra coarse/coarse combo plate . Add a spyderxo medium and or ultra fine down the road and your gtg .

Kings are good on some steels but diamonds are a better one size fits all when it comes to sharpening .
 
I'm just the kind of guy that likes to be able to do things the stone age way first. . . . doing things that way forces you to learn what's really going on and understand it in practice.

I want to learn to sharpen on a stone, freehand, then I'll get a sharp maker, edge pro or wicked edge sharpening system
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I applaud that. More power to you.

You saw this photo in my other post. I am showing it again for good reason. The white no name stone in the fore ground glazed pretty fast and stopped cutting for the most part and that was just on the blade shown which is made from an old file with the teeth ground off meaning not a super steel just plain high carbon steel.

Then I got the Shapton 120. It NEVER GLAZES even on the super steel. The first no name stone . . . by the way . . . is an 80 grit. The Shapton 120 even though finer just blows the cheep stone into the weeds.

Do you see what I am saying . . . again. Cheep stones SOME TIMES suck.

You may or may not be experiencing that now.

By the way I am able to get the 80 grit cutting again fairly well by taking it to my DMT 220 grit diamond plate, the one with the round dots all over it.

If your stone does not respond to a diamond plate time to toss it.
They make good door stops too.

 
Yeah, this ace stone I got is making me for sure take a step back and get quality stones

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I wonder . . . if the stone does not look beat on . . . maybe you could return it.
?
Worth a try.
 
nhyrum said:
Yeah, this ace stone I got is making me for sure take a step back and get quality stones
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Hi,
Have you tried just scratching the stone surface using a nail or a piece of hacksaw?
Its a lot of pressure 1 lb / 1 mm square =~ 645 PSI
Thats all it takes to unclog a stone like this by releasing fresh grit,
scratch it up to change the color some and give it a short 10-20 second rub on glass/tile... or another stone which needs unclogging
or just scratch it up a bit more and use the newly released slurry/mud to sharpen with, it leaves a "nicer" looking finish

Its much harder to damage oil stones than it is diamond stones
 
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