Sharpening

oldmanwilly said:
I suggest you get a knife you don't mind damaging and learn to freehand sharpen. Here's a basic how-to video from a YouTube channel with worthwhile knife content:


As Killgar said, it doesn't have to be a complicated process once you figure it out, and there is no one "perfect" way to do it. As long as the knife cuts how you want and doesn't get too weak then you'll be doing fine.
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I definitely recommend this as a way to work on your skills before you do something you regret to an expensive/treasured knife. I have a number of sharpening systems that get little use and mostly it's just free hand sharpening.
 
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~7 bucks at Baryonyx, this pocket stone is good enough for all the knives pictured here. Cheap and easy.
 
mitchnola said:
I want to learn to sharpen free hand but have yet to attend youtube university. What’s the trick to find the bevel and then keep it while sharpening?
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Use a sharpie to color in your secondary bevel on both sides of your blade. Go somewhere you'll have good lighting, and put your blade on the stone, but dont start grinding away yet.

Now, rock your blade back and forth a little bit on the stone starting from the blade being perpendicular and flat on the stone towards the edge side of the blade, and look for the shadow under the edge bevel that you colored in with the sharpie. Now, rock the blade's edge more 'into' the stone until you see the shadow disappear as the edge lightly begins to touch the stone. As soon as the shadow disappears you've found your knife's angle on that side.

Now, look at your knife's blade angle in relation to the stone, and feel what your hand/wrist are doing to maintain it. Youll want your fingers and hand to be somewhat firm, but your arm and wrist to be relaxed so you can maintain the fixed angle while running the blade up and down the stone using your arm.

You'll want to get your ears engaged with the process too, as you can also hear the scratching sounds change if your angles are way off (grinding too steeply into the apex, or too shallow against the cheek of the bevel and the sound volume will increase a little).

Here's where you'll begin grinding your new edge, and where the sharpie marks come into play. As you start grinding, you can see where the sharpie is getting removed and make adjustments accordingly (reapply it, as necessary). When you're riding the bevel accurately, the sharpie will be ground off of your secondary bevel evenly, and the strokes will feel a little less grindy and a bit more slick, if that makes sense.

You have two main types of strokes on the stone... Leading Edge and Trailing Edge. Leading edge is when the Edge is leading the direction on the stone, and Trailing is when the Spine is leading the direction on the stone. This terminology is more important to know when you get to refining your edge, but it's worth putting in your back pocket for now.

When youre needing to remove metal quickly to form a clean apex (the apex is where the bevels meet, and what the edge forms on), using both leading and trailing strokes one after the other while keeping the knife on the stone is my favorite method.

Once you get a burr on one side, flip the blade and do the same process for finding and maintaining your angle, and then get back to grinding while feeling the process, listening to the scratches, and observing the sharpie marks and using the shadow method from earlier if you need to find your angle again.

Once you've ground the other side of the blade, gotten a decent burr (it'll feel like a little 'lip' on the end of the edge) and made sure your apex is as even on the bevel as you want it you'll move to refining the edge by removing/minimizing the burr.

I'll stop here, since you were asking mainly about finding angles freehand. This process is what got me making edges consistently (when you get the hang of it, theres some other techniques you can use to minimize burr formation during the process, but focusing on the basics for now will help you build confidence), so I hope it works for you too. If you want me to describe my process for refining the edge freehand I can explain it too.

Also, find a cheap knife that takes a decent edge to practice with. Once you're able to consistently get most of your senses involved with the process youll be able to put an edge on just about anything thatll take one with minimal sharpening equipment. Freehand sharpening is totally worth the effort to learn if you can be comfortable with being bad at it for a little while. Hope this is helpful.
 
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Stropping can work well, and I use more than anything else.
Sharpmaker for touch up
If you still need more Wicked edge is easy to use, but a bit costly.this will handle everything from dull to re-profiling
Best to maintain your edge and not wait until it is very dull.
 
Wirelessjunkie said:
Use a sharpie to color in your secondary bevel on both sides of your blade. Go somewhere you'll have good lighting, and put your blade on the stone, but dont start grinding away yet.

Now, rock your blade back and forth a little bit on the stone starting from the blade being perpendicular and flat on the stone towards the edge side of the blade, and look for the shadow under the edge bevel that you colored in with the sharpie. Now, rock the blade's edge more 'into' the stone until you see the shadow disappear as the edge lightly begins to touch the stone. As soon as the shadow disappears you've found your knife's angle on that side.

Now, look at your knife's blade angle in relation to the stone, and feel what your hand/wrist are doing to maintain it. Youll want your fingers and hand to be somewhat firm, but your arm and wrist to be relaxed so you can maintain the fixed angle while running the blade up and down the stone using your arm.

You'll want to get your ears engaged with the process too, as you can also hear the scratching sounds change if your angles are way off (grinding too steeply into the apex, or too shallow against the cheek of the bevel and the sound volume will increase a little).

Here's where you'll begin grinding your new edge, and where the sharpie marks come into play. As you start grinding, you can see where the sharpie is getting removed and make adjustments accordingly (reapply it, as necessary). When you're riding the bevel accurately, the sharpie will be ground off of your secondary bevel evenly, and the strokes will feel a little less grindy and a bit more slick, if that makes sense.

You have two main types of strokes on the stone... Leading Edge and Trailing Edge. Leading edge is when the Edge is leading the direction on the stone, and Trailing is when the Spine is leading the direction on the stone. This terminology is more important to know when you get to refining your edge, but it's worth putting in your back pocket for now.

When youre needing to remove metal quickly to form a clean apex (the apex is where the bevels meet, and what the edge forms on), using both leading and trailing strokes one after the other while keeping the knife on the stone is my favorite method.

Once you get a burr on one side, flip the blade and do the same process for finding and maintaining your angle, and then get back to grinding while feeling the process, listening to the scratches, and observing the sharpie marks and using the shadow method from earlier if you need to find your angle again.

Once you've ground the other side of the blade, gotten a decent burr (it'll feel like a little 'lip' on the end of the edge) and made sure your apex is as even on the bevel as you want it you'll move to refining the edge by removing/minimizing the burr.

I'll stop here, since you were asking mainly about finding angles freehand. This process is what got me making edges consistently (when you get the hang of it, theres some other techniques you can use to minimize burr formation during the process, but focusing on the basics for now will help you build confidence), so I hope it works for you too. If you want me to describe my process for refining the edge freehand I can explain it too.

Also, find a cheap knife that takes a decent edge to practice with. Once you're able to consistently get most of your senses involved with the process youll be able to put an edge on just about anything thatll take one with minimal sharpening equipment. Freehand sharpening is totally worth the effort to learn if you can be comfortable with being bad at it for a little while. Hope this is helpful.
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Absolutely helpful, thanks for taking the time for such a thorough explanation. Very much appreciated!
 
Wirelessjunkie said:
Use a sharpie to color in your secondary bevel on both sides of your blade. Go somewhere you'll have good lighting, and put your blade on the stone, but dont start grinding away yet.

Now, rock your blade back and forth a little bit on the stone starting from the blade being perpendicular and flat on the stone towards the edge side of the blade, and look for the shadow under the edge bevel that you colored in with the sharpie. Now, rock the blade's edge more 'into' the stone until you see the shadow disappear as the edge lightly begins to touch the stone. As soon as the shadow disappears you've found your knife's angle on that side. ...
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I will refrain from copying the rest of this excellent description.

That's pretty much what I did for years when I mostly sharpened machetes. The thicker the blade, the easier it is to see what you are doing.

But with a very thin blade such as a Victorinox paring knife, that sort of method does not work for me at all. And I like to be able to sharpen my edges at a specific angle. Now, I much prefer guided sharpeners such as the Work Sharp Professional Precision Adjust, various TSProf and Hapstones systems, Work Sharp Ken Onion, and so on. Wicked Edge and Tormek are outside of my price range.

Where things get complicated is deburring. There is a booklet about that, called "Knife Deburring: Science behind the lasting razor edge" by Dr. Vadim Kraichuk of Knife Grinders, Australia. You can download a pdf file from the Knife Grinders web site or order a copy from Amazon.
 
Another Shepherd said:
I will refrain from copying the rest of this excellent description.

That's pretty much what I did for years when I mostly sharpened machetes. The thicker the blade, the easier it is to see what you are doing.

But with a very thin blade such as a Victorinox paring knife, that sort of method does not work for me at all. And I like to be able to sharpen my edges at a specific angle. Now, I much prefer guided sharpeners such as the Work Sharp Professional Precision Adjust, various TSProf and Hapstones systems, Work Sharp Ken Onion, and so on. Wicked Edge and Tormek are outside of my price range.

Where things get complicated is deburring. There is a booklet about that, called "Knife Deburring: Science behind the lasting razor edge" by Dr. Vadim Kraichuk of Knife Grinders, Australia. You can download a pdf file from the Knife Grinders web site or order a copy from Amazon.
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Thanks, and I agree about deburring being a subject unto itself. That's where you really have to be mindful of your pressure and technique to get a clean edge that'll last a while.

Also agree about thin bevels being tricky too. The thinner the bevel, the more difficult it can be to get the bevel indexed to the stone accurately. I've had to resort to holding the stone in one hand and the blade in the other (over a thick wool surplus blanket) to where I can feel/hear what's going on with stuff like kitchen knives, one of my EDC designs, and traditionals with a really thin grind behind the edge. It also helps me manage the pressure, as really thin bevels don't need much at all. A guided system would make that a lot easier in some ways for me, but I'm too hard headed to change my ways. 🤣
 
Wirelessjunkie said:
I've had to resort to holding the stone in one hand and the blade in the other (over a thick wool surplus blanket) to where I can feel/hear what's going on with stuff like kitchen knives, one of my EDC designs, and traditionals with a really thin grind behind the edge. It also helps me manage the pressure, as really thin bevels don't need much at all.
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That's how I always did machetes up until very recently, except for the blanket. Might use a knee to help steady the blade. I never even saw anybody using bench stones until a few years ago when I started watching Youtube.

I've bought a couple bench stones now but haven't really tried them out yet.
 
Emery, and this goes for anyone reading this thread.
Very often you will find knives on BF for sale that are affordable sold as used or users. Sometimes they are quality knives that are sold cheap for whatever reason. They are perfect for learning and most of all gifting. Sharpen them until you are satisfied with your edge. Once you have something you can say "Now that's sharp" gift it to someone who will use it and tell them to bring it back when it's dull so you can learn all over again. Both of you will be glad of it.
 
jackknife said:
THIS!!!!!!!!!

Don't rely on gizmos, they are just a crutch that will in time cripple your ability to sharpen your knife anywhere, anytime. Its not that hard to free hand sharpen a knife, its a lot simpler than you think. The manufactures or the gizmos want you to think its complicated, so you will waste money and time on their overpriced and over engineered gizmos.
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For years, an Arkansas stone or diamond impregnated Stone would work just fine to sharpen knives. And then the super steals were introduced. Sure you can use the above to sharpen them, but it will take you all day. So then the market for guided sharpeners with 53 different stones and paste and strops made out of extra-terrestrial leather was needed. It’s almost like they are in cahoots together. Let’s introduce super steals, so we can introduce sharpeners for these super steals. Neither of which were needed to begin with.

Don’t get me wrong. I have one of those fancy sharpeners. I was bit by that bug for a long time. OK I probably have a dresser drawer full of knife sharpeners.

Now I’ve gone back to 1095 steel, Swiss Army knife stainless steel, Buck 420HC steel. It’s all you need and you can actually sharpen the damn things.

That work Sharp guided sharpener above will work just perfect. Easy to carry with you and has a strop.
 
Yeah,… super steels. Who needs them. My great grandfather had a pocket knife he could sharpen on a bottom of a coffee cup or a brick and he didn't complain about edge retention.
Those days they also used to travel to Vienna in carriages and they all got there (eventually). Now look at them in all those fancy cars.

No; cheap whetstones are not good. You need to have those fancy japanese AnginSan, Fukimo, Nakajimo, Kinasawe, Sanokawe or whatever to get a proper edge on your knife. Also don't forget a lot of water and don't flood your house while sharpening.
Better yet; get yourself a Grid Viva sharpening system. This system is so precise you need special angle meter so you can adjust your sharpening angle with three decimal places accuracy.
Hehe; sharpening world got FUBAR.

To sharpen any knife you only need one diamond plate (coarse or medium) and one strop with 3 or 5 micron diamond compound and that's it.
Check Youtube. Look for 'Northwest Knife guy'. He can put hair whittling edge on his Opinel only with a DMT #400/#600 diamond folding pocket sharpener.
Check also 'Oudoors55' videos. DMT fine diamond plate and 3 micron leather strop and that's it.
 
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Most factory edges I have touched. Appear to be something below 400grit. You can see the machine marks on the edge. And I don't believe there's a picture of the device on the interweb. Or a company employee giving a detailed description of it. I'm guessing it's proprietary.

But I know, 400 grit will flatten it. Removing the machined ridges. Because you can't call them scratches. Purposely machined ridges.

Anyway, hand sharpening, 600 grit is the best replication of the factory edge. No where the same but close in performance.

1000 grit is more of a finish. 2000 grit is a beginning polish. Refinement. It's as far you'd ever need or want to take an edge. It'll be all the shine, you'd want, but still, 'scratched up'. Stropping will remove the swirls. With the material of the strop being another aspect. Some folks will use wood first and then leather. Or leather first and then wood. (I personally believe its about the edge not tearing up your strop. Because if you drop the strop on the edge. Not paying attention and you slightly push it. Instead of pulling it. A fine edge will cut the strop. Gouge it. So there's a difference between wood, leather and the feel.)


4000, 5000, 8000, 15000, and 30000. That's specialized Japanese kitchen knives. Meant for delicate things. Things you'll never need, cook, or eat. Unless you're paying $500+ for the meal. That's had a high dollar knife used to cut it up.
 
Spydercojh said:
Work Sharp Professional Precision Adjust sharpener
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The PA Pro works fantastic, especially if you want to get to the nitty gritty mirror edge. I use lapping sheets with mine also instead of the porcelin and stropping plates. It's pricey $250, but a whole lot cheaper than the top Wicked Edge.
 
I am a fan of the Spyderco Sharpmaker. Pretty simple to set up and use. There are many great sharpening systems out there. Pick one that appeals to you and go for it.
 
OK, I've received several opinions and I've spent a good bit of time fooling around with various sharpening methods. I've also purchased and used the Work Sharp Precision sharpener. The problem I have with that system is the method of clamping. Different blade shapes make it hard to clamp securely enough to reproduce the original grind. I'm disappointed with it but learned a lot. Getting a knife sharp is pretty easy but maintaining the original shape is a lot harder.
 
To reproduce the original grind?

Do you mean repeatability – to get exactly the same shape of secondary bevel each time you clamp the knife when sharpening?
This is impossible speaking from strictly technical point. You would need to permanently mark the blade (laser, engraving) so you will clamp the knife in clamps each time exactly the same way.

If you want to reproduce the factory edge on sharpening system this is also impossible. Each sharpening system has a different distance from sharpening area to the pivot.
For example; on my DIY sharpening system I have 222mm distance from the end of the clamps to the pivot. I guess on KME sharpening system this distance is much shorter and it would give me different 'shape' of secondary bevel. The same goes for Work Sharp system.

If you are trying to say that the clamps on your Work Sharp does not hold securely some blades and they move in clamps during sharpening this is different problem. I read some folks have similar problems with KME sharpening system. No matter how much they tighten the clamps some knives still move in clamps during sharpening. It's just the 'mechanical nature' of the clams.
 
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I just watched a video about the method of running your knife against the edge of a car window. With an explanation about, "Edge fibers" being pressed back together. Well...Ok.

Quite the colorful explanation of what's called a hone. And if the knife isn't sharp to begin with. The edge apex has been removed and it's dull. You can stand there all day and night. Running your knife across a car window and nothing is going to happen.

Honing a knife really comes into play with a thin edge kitchen knife. To where if you scrape the blade sideways across a cutting board. The edge will roll. Requiring a hone.

A hone doesn't sharpen. It straightens. So if you don't understand what car window does. Don't do it.


But if you decide, you just gotta run your knife across the window edge or coffee cup. Go tough, use the shaft on a screwdriver instead. Poor man's butcher's steel. Just make sure it's smooth and no nicks.
 
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