Sharpening

[Kbrasmodeler]

I just watched a video about the method of running your knife against the edge of a car window. With an explanation about, "Edge fibers" being pressed back together. Well...Ok.

Quite the colorful explanation of what's called a hone. And if the knife isn't sharp to begin with. The edge apex has been removed and it's dull. You can stand there all day and night. Running your knife across a car window and nothing is going to happen.

Honing a knife really comes into play with a thin edge kitchen knife. To where if you scrape the blade sideways across a cutting board. The edge will roll. Requiring a hone.

A hone doesn't sharpen. It straightens. So if you don't understand what car window does. Don't do it.


But if you decide, you just gotta run your knife across the window edge or coffee cup. Go tough, use the shaft on a screwdriver instead. Poor man's butcher's steel. Just make sure it's smooth and no nicks.

The edges of most car windows are frosted, and thus mildly abrasive. Just to test it, I have taken a few dull blades back to hair-poppin' on the edge of a car window. It's not an aggressive sharpening medium, but it works.

 

[l1ranger]

I just watched a video about the method of running your knife against the edge of a car window. With an explanation about, "Edge fibers" being pressed back together. Well...Ok.

Quite the colorful explanation of what's called a hone. And if the knife isn't sharp to begin with. The edge apex has been removed and it's dull. You can stand there all day and night. Running your knife across a car window and nothing is going to happen.

Honing a knife really comes into play with a thin edge kitchen knife. To where if you scrape the blade sideways across a cutting board. The edge will roll. Requiring a hone.

A hone doesn't sharpen. It straightens. So if you don't understand what car window does. Don't do it.


But if you decide, you just gotta run your knife across the window edge or coffee cup. Go tough, use the shaft on a screwdriver instead. Poor man's butcher's steel. Just make sure it's smooth and no nicks.

I dont see where anybody said anything about a car window here?

 

[Grasshopperglock]

I dont see where anybody said anything about a car window here?

I did. In the above post. Car window and how it relates to sharpening. Why it's performed, what it does, and the alternatives.

The edges of most car windows are frosted, and thus mildly abrasive. Just to test it, I have taken a few dull blades back to hair-poppin' on the edge of a car window. It's not an aggressive sharpening medium, but it works.

What's the estimate grit of frosted glass? 6000? 10000 grit? Is it less then say, a ceramic hone that's 3000 grit?

Every dull knife I've attempted to hone on glass hasn't worked. There was no sharp edge to straighten or align. It was like trying to sharpen a flat screw driver tip. There was no edge to bring out to begin with. I just didn't run the knife a few times over the glass. I stood there and tried to sharpen it. Not hone it but sharpen. (Kershaw knife that belonged to the Boss. We had time to spare and got him to hand it over. GMC window glass.)

 

[Kbrasmodeler]

What's the estimate grit of frosted glass? 6000? 10000 grit? Is it less then say, a ceramic hone that's 3000 grit?

Every dull knife I've attempted to hone on glass hasn't worked. There was no sharp edge to straighten or align. It was like trying to sharpen a flat screw driver tip. There was no edge to bring out to begin with. I just didn't run the knife a few times over the glass. I stood there and tried to sharpen it. Not hone it but sharpen. (Kershaw knife that belonged to the Boss. We had time to spare and got him to hand it over. GMC window glass.)

It felt like a really fine grit. Maybe yours wasn't frosted? I would never try to reprofile a knife with it, but for light re-sharpening, it has worked for me.

 

[l1ranger]

I did. In the above post. Car window and how it relates to sharpening. Why it's performed, what it does, and the alternatives.

you were the first one - that was my point....nevermind


OP - I find the quickest and simplest solution is to not let the knives get overly dull to begin with. I find the sharpmaker or lansky crock sticks, or somethingn similar are good for maintaining a sharp edge.
there are times when you don't get the maintain that edge and you there's been lots of options for that above. freehand is probably the simplest once you figure it out - but I'll usually go back to a guided system to 'reset' my edges

 

[Emery E Mitchamore]

Just a clarification here. Many of the knives I acquired (and used) just to learn what I like and what works for me, are pretty expensive. Many have small nicks and I would like to restore them to the original shape and angle. I believe that requires a guided system. It was unfortunate that I chose a Leatherman blade for my first experiment. It's narrow and has no parallel surfaces, which is why I was unsuccessful with the Work Sharp clamp. Knives with larger blades have worked very well. Once the visible damage has been removed, and without removing the knife from the clamp, it has been very easy to achieve good sharpness. I don't know if I will often pursue extremely sharp edges on most of these knives; most won't be used often and those that are will be sharpened moderately and often.

As a result of this experiment and all the advice, I will sharpen small blades as I have for the last 70 years, by hand.

 

[TheOne45]

Small knives with small blades?
Lately I’m using….I will show you a photo at the end.
Funny thing how this idea occurred to me. There was 2 triggers.
The first was when I found a video on Youtube of a guy sharpening his Opinel on DMT double sided folding pocket sharpener. He said he has all four of them with different grits from extra-course to extra-extra fine.
The second trigger was when looking my father sharpening his SAK on a big diamond plate. It was an overkill for such a small blade.
So I said to myself… I want a small sharpener to go with me wherever I go and I want all grits I will decide I need to sharpen my knives.
I didn’t want to buy those four DMT sharpeners because I didn’t want to lug with me four of them and I was not willing to spend $30x4=$120. $30 (for one sharpener) price is from Amazon. I don’t know if there are any stores with lower price.

OK. A cheap $5 sharpener and a few 1mm thick, 20mm wide and 150mm long diamond sharpening plates ( a 2 or 3 dollars for a plate) from Aliexpress will be good enough for my experiment to see, how it will do.
I made a plate from 3mm thick aluminium and made new part which is in the middle of those two handles (3D print) to hold aluminium plate…..three holes in alu plate for three neodium magnets and that’s it. I forgot…I also shortened those diamond plates to a proper size.
And yes; it's double sided. I can put diamond plate on aluminium holding plate from both sides.
I also made a small strop…piece of 2mm thick leather with 7 micron diamond compound.
It works so good and it’s so simple I’m now sharpening all my EDC knives on this small sharpener and I can have all the grits I want with only one sharpener. I can sharpen a knife in a few minutes.
I still have my DIY guided sharpening system and use it occasionally but I don’t have a dedicated table for the sharpener so it takes time to put all I need together before I can start sharpening and then clean up all back where it was.
My DIY folding sharpener is on the reach of my hands all the time on the shelf in my living room and it also goes with me on vacations or wherever I go.

Here is the photo. I hope the link will work:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Qfofc7vrilFAPAmhmpWtNdnDXi7uoTpH/view?usp=drivesdk

 

[Emery E Mitchamore]

In the knife world, is there a distinction between "honing" and "lapping"? And where does "stropping" fall in this continuum? I would like to "grind" (to use yet another term) a finer edge than the 600 grit that came with my Work Sharp PA without jumping all the way to the ceramic hone. An Etsy maker has a "lapping" attachment (which I have ordered) but I'd like to be using the terminology that will be widely understood.

 

[Emery E Mitchamore]

Small knives with small blades?
Lately I’m using….I will show you a photo at the end.
Funny thing how this idea occurred to me. There was 2 triggers.
The first was when I found a video on Youtube of a guy sharpening his Opinel on DMT double sided folding pocket sharpener. He said he has all four of them with different grits from extra-course to extra-extra fine.
The second trigger was when looking my father sharpening his SAK on a big diamond plate. It was an overkill for such a small blade.
So I said to myself… I want a small sharpener to go with me wherever I go and I want all grits I will decide I need to sharpen my knives.
I didn’t want to buy those four DMT sharpeners because I didn’t want to lug with me four of them and I was not willing to spend $30x4=$120. $30 (for one sharpener) price is from Amazon. I don’t know if there are any stores with lower price.

OK. A cheap $5 sharpener and a few 1mm thick, 20mm wide and 150mm long diamond sharpening plates ( a 2 or 3 dollars for a plate) from Aliexpress will be good enough for my experiment to see, how it will do.
I made a plate from 3mm thick aluminium and made new part which is in the middle of those two handles (3D print) to hold aluminium plate…..three holes in alu plate for three neodium magnets and that’s it. I forgot…I also shortened those diamond plates to a proper size.
And yes; it's double sided. I can put diamond plate on aluminium holding plate from both sides.
I also made a small strop…piece of 2mm thick leather with 7 micron diamond compound.
It works so good and it’s so simple I’m now sharpening all my EDC knives on this small sharpener and I can have all the grits I want with only one sharpener. I can sharpen a knife in a few minutes.
I still have my DIY guided sharpening system and use it occasionally but I don’t have a dedicated table for the sharpener so it takes time to put all I need together before I can start sharpening and then clean up all back where it was.
My DIY folding sharpener is on the reach of my hands all the time on the shelf in my living room and it also goes with me on vacations or wherever I go.

Here is the photo. I hope the link will work:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Qfofc7vrilFAPAmhmpWtNdnDXi7uoTpH/view?usp=drive_link

When I clicked that link I got a message that my access is denied. I've never seen that before but when I attempted to do what it asked, I got into a Google security loop and eventually gave up. Apparently I'm signed in via a Gmail account I never use. Anyway, I'll try again later.

 

[chalby]

In the knife world, is there a distinction between "honing" and "lapping"? And where does "stropping" fall in this continuum? I would like to "grind" (to use yet another term) a finer edge than the 600 grit that came with my Work Sharp PA without jumping all the way to the ceramic hone. An Etsy maker has a "lapping" attachment (which I have ordered) but I'd like to be using the terminology that will be widely understood.

Lapping means to refine the edge. Generally the finishing steps in sharpening/polishing.

Honing can mean just about anything from just normal sharpening to realigning with a kitchen steel or very minor edge repair with a ceramic rod.

Stropping just means using a strop. A strop can be made of virtually anything but traditionally a piece of leather. Similar in practice to lapping.

 

[Another Shepherd]

In the knife world, is there a distinction between "honing" and "lapping"? And where does "stropping" fall in this continuum? I would like to "grind" (to use yet another term) a finer edge than the 600 grit that came with my Work Sharp PA without jumping all the way to the ceramic hone. An Etsy maker has a "lapping" attachment (which I have ordered) but I'd like to be using the terminology that will be widely understood.

LAP stands for "Loose Abrasive Process". Lapping means to smooth and flatten a surface by grinding it against an abrasive slurry on an extremely flat lapping plate.
https://support.sas.com/documentation/cdl/en/mcrolref/61885/HTML/default/viewer.htm#a000543554.htm

"Grinding" is the general term for all of the above abrasive processes.

 

[TheOne45]

Emery,
Sorry, looks like I did something wrong. I hope I fixed the link now.
Would you please be so kind to try it again.
Regards

By the way, I can't find a way what to do so the photo will show below my text instead of a link. I have the photo on Google Drive.

 

[Emery E Mitchamore]

LAP stands for "Loose Abrasive Process". Lapping means to smooth and flatten a surface by grinding it against an abrasive slurry on an extremely flat lapping plate.
https://support.sas.com/documentation/cdl/en/mcrolref/61885/HTML/default/viewer.htm#a000543554.htm

"Grinding" is the general term for all of the above abrasive processes.

Thanks! That's the kind of thing I'm looking for - "understanding", more than just doing or knowing. So often we use terms that are broadly understood without bothering to dig down to the underlying factors.

 

[Another Shepherd]

By the way, I can't find a way what to do so the photo will show below my text instead of a link. I have the photo on Google Drive.

You need a link to the image itself. The link you are using goes to a web page that contains the image, not directly to the image. Usually you can right-click on the image and copy the URL for it, but Google disables right-clicking.

Or you can upgrade your membership in Blade Forums to the gold level so you can store images here.

 

[Way-Barney]

I sharpen my EDC carry pen knives, I have about 12 in rotation, each morning before I take them out to work, freehand on Norton M/F. Half a dozen light strokes bring most to shaving sharp and a quick strop to put a top hat on it. Last week I put nicks in two blades a home made one in 1084 and wayferer in cpm20cv. The 1084 nicks were removed on the medium and sharpened on the India fine in a little over a minute, I was aprehensive about the 20CV but the Norton medium got the nicks out in a couple of minutes and sharpened to shaving in another couple. I think that the secret, if there is one, to freehand sharpening is consistency. Holding that angle, whatever you have chosen, and applying a firm consistent even paced stroke. I used a VG10 spyderco yesterday and ended up opening 10 bags of 8mm stone dashings, laid flat and opened with four cuts, that edge would hardly spread butter at the end of the day. I am looking forward to sharpening that tomorrow. I hope that I can stick to the Nortons.

 

[eveled]

I have a magnifying lamp on a floor stand next to my bench. Best thing I’ve ever bought. Helps with really seeing the edge.

I also am a free hand sharpener. I think it is a necessary life skill. Unless there is some physical limitations.

But if you can slice the bark off a green stick you can sharpen a knife on a stone.

 

[chalby]

I have a magnifying lamp on a floor stand next to my bench. Best thing I’ve ever bought. Helps with really seeing the edge.

I also am a free hand sharpener. I think it is a necessary life skill. Unless there is some physical limitations.

But if you can slice the bark off a green stick you can sharpen a knife on a stone.

Good points. If I could give some simple advise to a younger me learning to sharpen, it would be:

1. Take your time and observe the edge and progress you are making. Be patient and stop to observe often. Some sort of magnification makes this a lot easier. After a while you will find that you can go by feel more so than stopping and looking at what you are doing and therefore gain speed and accuracy as you learn. Focus on keeping a consistent angle and raise the elbow as you navigate the belly in the edge.

2. Take the time to understand the concept of creating a burr and then removing it. For me, learning this was the difference between getting pretty good edges to consistently getting great edges. Everything to cutting performance to edge longevity improved once I realized how important burr removal was.

3. It's not as hard as it seems. Stick to it and you will eventually look back and realize how simple it all is.

 

[TheOne45]

You have some good points there, Chalby.

I found a link to a video in some other knife forum.
This guy wrote he watched numerous sharpening videos and tutorials on Youtube and read all the sharpening tutorials he could find on Google but he said he still sucks at sharpening his knives.
I just don’t know what to think. I'm seriously questioning his logic and common sense. But...it could also be some sort of a joke.
If you became bored just skip to 6:00.

 

[CanadianCuttingEdge]

I won't try to advise you on what sharpening system to use but just say get the best system that you can afford. Fight the urge to sharpen quickly, any skill takes time to master. Once you get good at sharpening your knives then you will know a much deeper and more enjoyable level of enthusiasm for the hobby than you currently think possible.

 

[chalby]

You have some good points there, Chalby.

I found a link to a video in some other knife forum.
This guy wrote he watched numerous sharpening videos and tutorials on Youtube and read all the sharpening tutorials he could find on Google but he said he still sucks at sharpening his knives.
I just don’t know what to think. I'm seriously questioning his logic and common sense. But...it could also be some sort of a joke.
If you became bored just skip to 6:00.

That guy can probably start at *not* sharpening at what looks to be about 60 degrees. Yikes!

He would improve considerably if he brought the angle down to at least 20-25 degrees or less for each side, ease up on the downward pressure and use smoother more controlled strokes. He looks like he is trying to scrape the edge off. If he is reprofiling the angle for the first time he needs to go back to a coarse stone to begin with. He is also dragging the tip off the stone on each stroke which will ruin the tip. I would advise him to use a permanent marker and color the edge and stop and look at the progress under magnification (after each pass if needed) to understand where the grinding is happening and make small adjustments as needed.

Once you are getting close to the apex you want to start feeling(or looking) for a burr. Once the burr is fully formed on both sides you can start reducing pressure on subsequent passes. Once you have moved the burr from one side to the other a few times at reducing pressure, you can then concentrate on removing the burr as best you can on the stone and then strop to refine the final edge.