Sheffield made Tackler knives

[Jack Black]

That's a really nice one SK @ADEE has a few nice ones (I'll see if I can summon him! )

 

[bonzodog]

I have one in rosewood,will take a picture when time permits.

 

[Cambertree]

Thanks my friend, good to see you here Yes, they are surprisingly different aren't they? Good on yer for fixing your pics I really need to spend some time in the B & B thread! Cool pic As I may have told you, one of my great grandfathers, a Sheffield cutler, was from Armagh - though I have heard that saying said about a few places!

Looking good

Thanks Jack. I remember you mentioning you had some Irish working cutlers in your family background, but not that your great-grandfather may have hailed from County Armagh. I've thought of the place and it's history and people often, since being shown around there earlier this year.

Do you know what firm he worked for?

Interesting thread. I've had this (tacklers?) knife for quite a while. At one time I think I had the connection but now I forget. I think it is advertising for a company making a product (buffalo pickers) for use in the weaving industry. The advert for a different company but as close as I found.
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Very interesting knife S-K.

Like the Lambsfoot pattern, there seems to be a dearth of good historical information on the origins and history of the Tackler's knife. I suppose both patterns may have been seen as ordinary, quotidian working knives of their day, as unremarkable as say a disposable boxcutter, or pair of plastic handled scissors would be today.

It would certainly make sense for buffalo hide Pickers intended for use on industrial looms, to be advertised on a Tackler's knife.

I'm also quite intrigued by how, despite the popularity of the GEC 47 Viper, the parallels with the British Tackler's knife went largely unnoticed until Charlie Waynorth's earlier post in this thread.

 

[Jack Black]

Thanks Jack. I remember you mentioning you had some Irish working cutlers in your family background, but not that your great-grandfather may have hailed from County Armagh. I've thought of the place and it's history and people often, since being shown around there earlier this year.

Do you know what firm he worked for?

Yes, one from County Armagh, and one from County Antrim He worked at Tommy Ward's, but was killed in WW1. One of my grandfather's brothers moved back to Antrim, and married there. We used to get occasional visits from the cousins when I was a kid

Edit - Just noted a second soldier, with the unusual name of Paramore, (obviously different initials), who also worked at T.W.Ward, and fought in WW1, also with the York and Lancaster Regiment, but who survived. Just wondering if he was a relative, a brother perhaps, of my great grandfather, something of a coincidence?

 

[bonzodog]

A.Wright in rosewood
https://postimg.org/image/6mmb0khk3/

 

[Jak3]

Thanks for the history lesson! I hadn't heard of these knives before but now I would like to have one!

As of right now my traditional knives are only American, with the exception of two German knives (A.W. Wadsworth ebony equal end jack and a pearl JA Henckels Lobster). I would love to add more European knives to the collection.

 

[Cambertree]

Yes, one from County Armagh, and one from County Antrim He worked at Tommy Ward's, but was killed in WW1. One of my grandfather's brothers moved back to Antrim, and married there. We used to get occasional visits from the cousins when I was a kid

Edit - Just noted a second soldier, with the unusual name of Paramore, (obviously different initials), who also worked at T.W.Ward, and fought in WW1, also with the York and Lancaster Regiment, but who survived. Just wondering if he was a relative, a brother perhaps, of my great grandfather, something of a coincidence?

Interesting surname, thanks for the further information, Jack. Quite possible that the surviving Paramore was a relation.

I should mention that my initial reason for pairing a Sheffield Tackler's knife with that book, was an assumption that with the prevalence of linen mills in Ulster, the Tackler's knife may have been used in those factories.

Thanks for the history lesson! I hadn't heard of these knives before but now I would like to have one!

As of right now my traditional knives are only American, with the exception of two German knives (A.W. Wadsworth ebony equal end jack and a pearl JA Henckels Lobster). I would love to add more European knives to the collection.

It's a good sturdy knife Jak3. I find it aesthetically quite appealing, although using it side by side with the A. Wright Lambsfoot for a while, I came to prefer the Lambsfoot for everyday use.

I do enjoy my Tackler's knife though. Since writing the short reviews earlier in this thread, I've smoothed out the action and lightened the pull a fair bit on mine. It is a very useful utility knife.

 

[Jack Black]

Interesting surname, thanks for the further information, Jack. Quite possible that the surviving Paramore was a relation.

I should mention that my initial reason for pairing a Sheffield Tackler's knife with that book, was an assumption that with the prevalence of linen mills in Ulster, the Tackler's knife may have been used in those factories.

Yes, the only two on the whole honours list, and they worked at the same factory.

I think that's also a reasonable assumption my friend

 

[Cambertree]

A.Wright in rosewood
https://postimg.org/image/6mmb0khk3/

Nice looking example there, bonzodog, with the newer A. Wright tang stamp - and from what I can see, the blade profile looks a little more similar to Jack's Tackler with the fluted bolsters.

 

[Jack Black]

Nice looking example there, bonzodog, with the newer A. Wright tang stamp - and from what I can see, the blade profile looks a little more similar to Jack's Tackler with the fluted bolsters.

+1

 

[Jak3]

I would love to have one of each! That being a lambsfoot and a Tackler. I like the Ettrick pattern too! Though I like all traditional knives really.

Though I'm not really informed on where to buy them. Is there a seller that is okay to post in the forums that imports these knives (Sheffield knives, namely A Wright) for sale in the USA? If there are dealers like these I would be delighted if someone could point me in the right direction of finding them.

Thanks

 

[Cambertree]

I would love to have one of each! That being a lambsfoot and a Tackler. I like the Ettrick pattern too! Though I like all traditional knives really.

Though I'm not really informed on where to buy them. Is there a seller that is okay to post in the forums that imports these knives (Sheffield knives, namely A Wright) for sale in the USA? If there are dealers like these I would be delighted if someone could point me in the right direction of finding them.

Thanks

Sounds like a good trio to start off with, Jak3.

I tried to send you a PM but I think your membership level may not allow it.

(Although if you look through this thread carefully, you may find an answer to your question!)

 

[waynorth]

I hope I am not stretching the limits here, but I would like to clarify the term/pattern "Tackler", and its difference from an Ettrick! I'd never heard of a Tackler until the last few months.
A tackler seems to have a more substantial handle, and a somewhat broader blade, than an Ettrick. So all you with critical eye, please tell me which category best defines the J. Rodgers knife at the top of this picture, shown with two Ettricks. Note that the streaks of color make the handle look slimmer than it actually is.
Tackler or Ettrick??

 

[Cambertree]

I hope I am not stretching the limits here, but I would like to clarify the term/pattern "Tackler", and its difference from an Ettrick! I'd never heard of a Tackler until the last few months.
A tackler seems to have a more substantial handle, and a somewhat broader blade, than an Ettrick. So all you with critical eye, please tell me which category best defines the J. Rodgers knife at the top of this picture, shown with two Ettricks. Note that the streaks of color make the handle look slimmer than it actually is.
Tackler or Ettrick??
View attachment 787100

Very interesting, Charlie, and your example provides an opening for a good discussion point.

Even in Linnaean taxonomy, the characteristics between species can be somewhat fluid and subject to amendment as new discoveries are made; and knife pattern 'taxonomy' is by no means as carefully defined a system, as that which defines the living things of our natural world.

The elements of what defines some patterns are fairly well accepted and understood - although these may have been decided on by knife collectors and writers well after the pattern was actually produced. To further complicate things, many knife 'patterns' were presumably produced to fulfil a practical need, and were given fairly basic names at the time, if indeed they were given a name at all.

In it's purest sense, I suppose a Tackler's knife is any knife used by a Tackler in an industrial mill. I know what I expect to see if someone says they have a 'Tackler's knife' but this is only based on what I have seen before in this forum. I've certainly never seen a strict definition of one.

All the (few) Tackler's knives, I've seen had a hand filling, swayback handle, and a Wharncliffe style blade.

The Ettrick on the other hand presumably refers to a regional folding knife style of the Ettrick Valley in Scotland. And although I did some cursory research on this pattern - basically reading a lot of James Hogg, a rural writer and poet known as the Ettrick Shepherd - I cannot say whether it is true, or not. I think any further research would probably require a visit to the Ettrick Valley itself.

But again, based only on examples I have seen, the Ettrick seems to have a more slender, curved handle, a smaller blade to handle ratio, and is possibly intended to be used in a different hand hold, with the blade edge facing the user. If it is an old regional style, and not just a convenient name pinned onto a Sheffield pattern, the curve of the handle may be a consequence of the natural shape of the materials which were available: sheep and cattle horn, and possibly deer antler tines.

Based on the curve on the underside of the handle, I would lean towards defining your knife as an Ettrick type, Charlie, but certainly one of those fascinating transitional types of knives which lead us to question our commonly accepted pattern definitions.

Jack's Tackler's knife with fluted bolsters approaches the other end of the straight edged folding knife continuum, and seems to be getting close to a sheepsfoot to me!

(And of course all the above is only conjecture, as I'm certainly no authority on the subject!)

I wonder if anyone has any period references to either of these patterns?

 

[Cambertree]

Hmmm, then again, after squarely putting my foot in it, that knife is starting to seem more like a Tackler's knife to me. I haven't seen that fourth pin (can't recall what it's called) on many Ettricks before. Perhaps I'd best leave this question to the experts, and just leave this material here in relation to @smiling-knife's (possible) Tackler's knife by James Howarth and Sons.



The advertisement shows the extent of specialist trade knives and tools James Howarth and Sons made. No Tackler's knives mentioned though (if they were even called that, then). The engraving of Howarth's Bath St works was originally printed in An Illustrated Guide to Sheffield (1879). Both images are reprinted in Geoffrey Tweedales article on James Howarth and Sons in the WK Fine Tools internet magazine.

 

[Jack Black]

I hope I am not stretching the limits here, but I would like to clarify the term/pattern "Tackler", and its difference from an Ettrick! I'd never heard of a Tackler until the last few months.
A tackler seems to have a more substantial handle, and a somewhat broader blade, than an Ettrick. So all you with critical eye, please tell me which category best defines the J. Rodgers knife at the top of this picture, shown with two Ettricks. Note that the streaks of color make the handle look slimmer than it actually is.
Tackler or Ettrick??
View attachment 787100

Individual Sheffield cutlery firms have often interpreted patterns differently, but the Ettrick seems to be more consistent than most. Looking through old cutlery catalogues, there are a great many straight-edged patterns, some of which may not have even had formal names. Here's a few pages from a Saynor, Cooke, and Ridal catalogue for example:













I don't think it's a Tackler. It's more like the Ettrick pattern, but I don't think it's an Ettrick either. My guess would be that it's something else

 

[Jack Black]

In it's purest sense, I suppose a Tackler's knife is any knife used by a Tackler in an industrial mill. I know what I expect to see if someone says they have a 'Tackler's knife' but this is only based on what I have seen before in this forum. I've certainly never seen a strict definition of one.

Yes, and they may simply have adopted an existing pattern or patterns

Guys, I'm having real difficulty posting at the moment, can't actually see what I'm posting Is anyone else having the same problem? Either way, it makes it rather difficult to post

 

[waynorth]

I'm not having any trouble, Jack!

Thanks for the feedback, Chin and Jack! The knife in question has an interesting approximation of some of the patterns pictured above. Saynor, Cook & Ridal tended to produce "slimmer" versions of recognized patterns.
The Rodgers feels a lot nicer in hand than most of the Ettricks I have, and could be used for a day's work as a Tackler, IMO.

 

[Cambertree]

Good posts Jack, and thanks Charlie.

Jack, I'm not having that issue, and I can see your posts ok. Is there a date on that Saynor catalogue?

 

[JB in SC]

Very interesting discussion on tackler's knives. I never had heard of the term, but a tackler's counterpart in the US would be called a loom fixer. Assigned anywhere from 50 to 100 looms or more, they were responsible for "fixing" looms that had mechanical problems or were producing off quality fabric. Fixers were paid an hourly rate, where weavers were generally paid by the amount of production for their respective loom set, so it was in their interest to keep the looms running at all times.

@smiling-knife The advertisement for Buffalo Pick could be a reference for several items. In shuttle loom terminology a picking or picker stick (made of wood) was a common part to wear out or even break as it was the part that was a key component in the power transfer process . A picker would have been the part attached to a picking stick that actually touches the shuttle nose and propels it between the shed (threads of yarn) across the loom raceway. In addition there were picks (comb like metal devices) that were used to pick out defects.

Knives were used to trim the picking sticks to fit pickers. Pickers looked a like hammer heads and the picker stick like a very long handle, pickers were made of wood in the early days and later made of some type of resin reinforced with fabric (I can't recall, it's been thirty five years since I ran my last shuttle loom).