SHe's a stripper

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Those are pits not "dimples" or whatever other cutesie name one comes up with. They're ugly and I would expect more from this price point. The company thinks it's acceptable so I and many others evidently lose. That's fine with me. Now I know what Busse's expectations are for CG blades. Solution? I don't buy them anymore.

I keep hearing the "performance" arguement. Consider this: You go to a car dealer. You know what that company makes b/c you have bought from them before. This year, however, on receipt of your vehicle, you see the windows are broken, and the paint is stripped to primer. You voice your concerns and are met with, "...well it still does a quarter mile in 11 seconds...You paid for performance...I mean if it's looks you want then spend more next time for the Deluxe model..."

What would anyone's reaction be to that?
 
Apophis said:
My (uninformed) guess is that maybe INFI is sand cast or something in order to take advantage of the isotropic properties vs. other fabrication methods.
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As far as we know, the Shop receives INFI as bar stock or sheet stock. It is (probably) hot rolled or cold rolled down to the thickness ordered.
 
I get what you are saying but for cars it really is the same only bacwards. You pay for looks first,the performance is the upcharge.
 
You could look at it like this. They come from the company coated looking good. The company meant for them to be coated. The customer modified them from what the maker intended them to be. I have been disappointed in a couple I striped but did not complain about it as it was my choice to strip them. After all that I will admit that I am not a fan of the Brad Pitts.
 
Ratman79 said:
Those are pits not "dimples" or whatever other cutesie name one comes up with. I THINK they're ugly and I would expect more from this price point.
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Fixed that for ya!

Jerry, I'll take a Battle Saw with a double order of dimples, extra tooling marks, and throw in a side of crusty craters...

Hang around Ratman, Busse's New Extra Crispy Recipe Combat Grade is gonna drop in 2 weeks-- you're gonna love it!
 
Ratman79 said:
Those are pits not "dimples" or whatever other cutesie name one comes up with. They're ugly and I would expect more from this price point. The company thinks it's acceptable so I and many others evidently lose. That's fine with me. Now I know what Busse's expectations are for CG blades. Solution? I don't buy them anymore.

I keep hearing the "performance" arguement. Consider this: You go to a car dealer. You know what that company makes b/c you have bought from them before. This year, however, on receipt of your vehicle, you see the windows are broken, and the paint is stripped to primer. You voice your concerns and are met with, "...well it still does a quarter mile in 11 seconds...You paid for performance...I mean if it's looks you want then spend more next time for the Deluxe model..."

What would anyone's reaction be to that?
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So if you bought a car, removed the paint and didn't like what it looked like under the paint that would be the dealer's fault?

If you didn't want one with paint pony up and pay more for the one without it. It's prettier.


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I did not strip mine yet. I can see the irregularities and divots through the coating. And it's my opinion only. You're free to think or do what you like.

And with the car analogy, if you read the post, you would see that in that hypothetical, a stripped car was how it was presented to the buyer. In other words, this became the new normal and the dealer was trying to convince me that everything's OK. Again, just an analogy to illustrate a point. (It didn't happen in real life)
 
But you bought a coated knife. It's not broken in any way or different than it was represented on the Busse website.

I'm sure Busse will make it right if you ask. They have the best customer service in the business.
 
resinguy said:
As far as we know, the Shop receives INFI as bar stock or sheet stock. It is (probably) hot rolled or cold rolled down to the thickness ordered.
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Yes, that was my first thought as well. The casting was just a wild, and probably false, guess. Hot rolled with heavy mill scale is probably more plausible.
 
It's all gravy, kdstrick.

I was just giving my opinion is all. It's hard to ascertain tone from typed words, so I don't want anyone to think I'm angry or anything like that. Regarding the warranty, you're quite right. They have always taken care of their customers; there's no denying that. I probably will strip it and hold on to it though. I guess I was a bit taken aback by some of the pics and such. In retrospect, I can get carried away sometimes but like I said a few pages ago, I like Busse and their products. Some of my posts on this page specifically were made before I saw and read Jerry's personal input. Now that I have, I am going to take the gentleman at his word. I have no reason not to. If a couple of my responses came off as curt or rude, that's not my intention. I thought of deleting them, but I'm going to leave them so people can see that I reacted impulsively without having all the facts. Now I do.

My original plan was to do my own satin finish like a fellow did with 2 TGs. Then I started seeing what they looked like nude and it raised questions. Jerry assured us it was no big deal so that's where I am leaving it. Obviously he knows more about his steel than we do. So, in conclusion, I am going to polish up the SHe. Stripper, and lots of 3m wetordry and pa

Careful consideration and thought led me ultimately to the conclusion that yes, it is indeed sold as coated. What's underneath is not the end of the world. I will try my best to sand out the imperfections. I have stripper and lots of sandpaper in different grits.
 
After reading Jerry's comments I'm quite confident that this is the same old INFI, and therefore will be able to handle more abuse than I'm ever likely to put it through. That being said, I'm not happy with the big craters. Coating wears off with use over time, and for me when one of my Busse's reaches the point of the coating wearing off it's kind of a badge of honor for the knife. I have always liked the look of bare metal underneath the coating on my users, but I don't like the look of what's underneath the coating on the SHe's in this thread.
 
I am generally pleased that so many members like Pitts in their blade, and accept this as NORMAL-Good for you, enjoy-I am still waiting on an answer as to what causes these Pitts-I understand dimples, tool marks etc-I GET IT-What causes the Brad PITTS? We are not talking about all INFI, we are addressing the Knife in discussion that started this thread! Cheers
 
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With all do respect no it would not be the Dealer's fault, (Especially if recently purchased new) it would be the manufacturer's, If it was a New Car it would look to me like it has premature rusting issues-Cheers!!
kdstrick said:
So if you bought a car, removed the paint and didn't like what it looked like under the paint that would be the dealer's fault?

If you didn't want one with paint pony up and pay more for the one without it. It's prettier.


.
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TommyGun56 said:
I am generally pleased that so many members like Pitts in their blade, and accept this as NORMAL-Good for you, enjoy-I am still waiting on an answer as to what causes these Pitts-I understand dimples, tool marks etc-I GET IT-What causes the Brad PITTS? We are not talking about all INFI, we are addressing the Knife in discussion that started this thread! Cheers
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Tom, I don't think Jerry's gonna give up what forms the pits-- may be a trade secret.

It's unique to the brand. I've never seen another maker with anything that looks like it, so I think it's something that has to do with the "secret sauce" of INFI.

Then there's the possibility that it's really nothing special and Jerry's letting everyone's imagination run wild kinda like all the theories floating around about Ft. Knox security measures.

But offhand, I'm guessing it's where the scotch changes from liquid to vapor during the HT phase.
 
Not going to buy that Petey, thanks for your input-I am curious and would like to know, I have several coated Busse's on order and would like to know if this is going to be what I should expect If I decide to strip them in the future-I am not trying to start an argument here, people have used and been happy with their strippers for years-Not questioning Busse's toughness, am strictly asking what I believe to be a valid question that no one seems to either know or want to answer. I too like the competition finish and Industrial finish, again I get tool marks etc, I am not digging nor do I understand the Brad Pitts! And would also like to know if the Combat Grade models are smoothed before being coated? If it's unique to Infi great-I love Busse knives and yes I prefer Satin in general, Regardless of the answers I find I will continue to purchase and love Busse's! However if the knife pictured by the OP on this thread is what is to be expected, then I may have to make some changes and go strictly with Satin-Personal Choice, we all have are likes and dislikes. If you like or do not care about the Brad Pitts-great, Not my cup of tea! I seek only answers-Cheers
PeteyTwoPointOne said:
Tom, I don't think Jerry's gonna give up what forms the pits-- may be a trade secret.

It's unique to the brand. I've never seen another maker with anything that looks like it, so I think it's something that has to do with the "secret sauce" of INFI.

Then there's the possibility that it's really nothing special and Jerry's letting everyone's imagination run wild kinda like all the theories floating around about Ft. Knox security measures.

But offhand, I'm guessing it's where the scotch changes from liquid to vapor during the HT phase.
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I can see that if the dimples is from the heat treat. Busse Combats infi steel and heat treat are propitiatory and heavily guarded.
 
I would guess the Dimples are Heat Treatment also-Just a guess though-Thanks
u812 said:
I can see that if the dimples is from the heat treat. Busse Combats infi steel and heat treat are propitiatory and heavily guarded.
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u812 said:
I can see that if the dimples is from the heat treat. Busse Combats infi steel and heat treat are propitiatory and heavily guarded.
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Assuming that the heat treat occurs after being ground, how can the pits be from the heat treat process? They may clean the blade up a bit after HT, but not enough to remove any pits.
 
I see where you're coming from Tom.

Let's start with :
What do we know about INFI dimples?

***they're only skin deep...they're a surface phenomenon...I've personally sanded down past them and I've never seen evidence of inclusions actually "in" the stock <FACT>

***they are unique to INFI <whether it's an artifact of HT or the formulation of the alloy, who knows? :confused:>


Now, let's move on to "pits" or "craters" :
What do we know about them?

***they are present on "rough finish INFI" that is ordinarily incorporated for satin models <FACT, as per Jerry himself on p.6 of this thread>

***some CG recent blades utilized some of this less refined grade <FACT, see above>

***the deeper "pits", at least the degree of their size & number, have not been seen before by some hogs <FACT, Jerry, same page, earlier post>

***refining INFI costs $$$ and time <FACT, common sense, and confirmed by Jerry multiple x's>



If, I've overlooked some facts or likely deductions <or if I'm FLAT-OUT WRONG>, let me know...

Now it's natural to assume pits & craters are "different" from dimples and a novel phenomenon, since no one's seen them before...

But, let's consider even Competition FINISH blades have a rudimentary level of refinement...and CF blades were sold in a "rougher" state, that is, less processed than any other blade heretofore.

So, the "INFI dimples" many of us know and love likely looked VERY DIFFERENT before they got the Competition FINISH...

Now I'm thinking what we call an "INFI dimple" may just be the refined bottom of what's recently been observed as a "pit" or "crater" in the rawer grade

If we were to see the pure raw INFI from the floor of the foundry, totally unprocessed, it may look like swiss cheese on the surface. It's for sure not gonna look like even the lowest level of "FINISH", ie Competition FINISH.

And just like I can personally change Competition into Satin via grinding, Competition is processed from "rough" INFI-- and very likely "rough" INFI looked a lot "rougher" before anneal, HT, quench process.

I think, and Jerry's pretty much confirmed, the only difference HOGs & squealers are seeing in the INFI in question in this thread is in the LEVEL OF REFINEMENT...


As for finding out what ultimately causes the INFI dimples, pits, craters...I support your inquires to their origin and I will stay tuned...but I wouldn't hold my breath for a definitive answer...I've heard even the janitor at Wauseon has signed a non-disclosure document! ;)
 
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