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Shipping insurance

Murman

Murman

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Shipping insurance protects the sender not the receiver right? If I buy a knife and it gets destroyed in shipment, I file a claim with PayPal and seller files the insurance claim right?

Reason I ask is I see sellers charging extra for shipping insurance. I'm thinking as a buyer that I'll get my money back from PayPal so why should I pay to cover them? Correct or not?
 
Murman - you are 100% correct. That's a scam. The insurance covers the sellers because in the contract the buyer is paying for a knife. If the knife doesn't arrive, pp protects the buyer.

It's the same as these guys that try to get buyers to pay pp fees. Those fees are charged to the seller because he's using the service to make his sale more convenient.

Anyone who asks for more money to insure their product or asks the buyer to pay fees that are supposed to be paid by the seller, I just move on.

And to add, selling goods and asking for pp ff is fraud, a lie and cheating pp out of their money for their service.

Morals and ethics are out of style these days.
 
Oh, I don't know about this. I always insure the knives I sell, but I know that the majority of sellers do not and some will say insurance is extra. At the end of the day, if I did not receive the knife I didn't buy it. Which is why I always make sure it is signature confirmation only with insurance.
 
Yes Murman - you are 100% correct.

However - I would like to add that I think some sellers who ask for extra "If you want insurance" are truly not trying to scam, they themselves JUST DON'T GET IT. Dense or mentally foggy or just not following through with the thought process (all euphemisms :confused:) these sellers don't understand that the insurance is there to cover their investment.

These threads are very useful to help clarify this point - yet again.

SELLER - you ship a $ 200.00 +/- knife. The buyer sends you the payment PayPal Goods and Services (if you are asking for PP Friends & Family - you are a scammer!). Let's assume you are getting paid by PP G&S. In this case the buyer already has the protection. If the knife that you just sold and shipped for some reason, doesn't get to its destination or arrives damaged, you won't get paid by PP and you will have lost your $ 200.00 +/- knife.

IF YOU - the seller - INSURES the knife for shipping it will be you - the seller - who can collect on the insurance while the buyer gets his/her money back from PP. This way everyone gets out of the deal unhurt - minus the knife of course - but at least not minus the $$$s too.

OK - until next time :)

Ray
 
Correct...the Buyer is pretty much covered if the transaction goes thru via PayPal G&S if something goes wrong. There are exceptions and PayPal covers them pretty well on their site.

The Seller is responsible for fees incurred for USPS insurance since it ONLY covers his/her end of the deal.

A Seller who demands the Buyer pay "extra" for USPS insurance is either misguided or trying to take advantage of the situation.

As for the usefulness of USPS insurance in general and the PITA it is to try to collect on your claim as a Seller....well...that's a topic for a entire thread all its own :thumbsdown::mad:
 
RayseM said:
... (if you are asking for PP Friends & Family - you are a scammer!) ...
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I think it is very judgmental to automatically assume the seller is a scammer just because they use PP F&F. I have seen some sellers specify PP F&F for international sales, and I have considered doing the same on a limited basis, to protect the seller from being scammed by someone saying they never received the knife, collecting the money from PP and keeping the knife too – what protection does the seller have in a case like this, shipping to a country where delivery cannot be verified? Also, what if the customs people in the receiving country decide to steal the knife and the buyer never receives it - is that the seller's fault? I say no, and the seller should not be held responsible for something like this.
 
PeteH said:
I used to buy insurance for anything I sold for more than $100, but it's gotten to the point that the insurance is costing more than the postage.
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Pete, you're spot on....the $$$ I've saved by not purchasing USPS insurance have bought me a couple custom Demkos and a Busse or two to boot! :thumbsup::):thumbsup:

The only protection I've needed on BladeForums, as a Seller is:

I REQUIRE Signature Confirmation on my big ticket blades.

And I will only sell expensive blades to guys with good reps. here on BladeForums.

Just following these two guidelines has worked for me over and over, YMMV.

A feller can become "insurance poor" paying those fees if he's not careful :thumbsdown:....

OTOH, you can become "self insured" with the funds you save. :thumbsup:
 
gk4ever2 said:
I think it is very judgmental to automatically assume the seller is a scammer just because they use PP F&F. I have seen some sellers specify PP F&F for international sales, and I have considered doing the same on a limited basis, to protect the seller from being scammed by someone saying they never received the knife, collecting the money from PP and keeping the knife too – what protection does the seller have in a case like this, shipping to a country where delivery cannot be verified? Also, what if the customs people in the receiving country decide to steal the knife and the buyer never receives it - is that the seller's fault? I say no, and the seller should not be held responsible for something like this.
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I understand your position and I respect it :)...and Rayse was <a little> blunt and painting the picture with wide brush strokes...

BUT a very important point is that the 3-4% fees belong to PayPal as their price for the service they are rendering to you to facilitate the transaction. It's akin to a Western Union money wire. You can't overlook that. It is patently dishonest at it's core to circumvent their fees to subsidize anyone's deal. It is a REAL service they provide, they deserve to get paid.

If we choose to deal with international sales it's a bigger risk, sometimes huge risk to get the deal done. That's why A LOT of sales threads contain the disclaimer: "No international sales...shipping to USA only...or similar"

It's a crap shoot...but it's THE SELLER's crapshoot...I'm not a PayPal fanboy or employee, but they deserve their fees for facilitating everyone's deal and plus the G&S fees are not that exorbitant, at that...who can argue against that?
 
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PeteyTwoPointOne said:
... BUT a very important point is that the 3-4% fees belong to PayPal as their price for the service they are rendering to you to facilitate the transaction. It's akin to a Western Union money wire. You can't overlook that. It is patently dishonest at it's core to circumvent their fees to subsidize anyone's deal. It is a REAL service they provide, they deserve to get paid. ...
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I pretty much agree with that. Another question is: what constitutes "friends" as it relates to PP F&F? I would consider some people in this forum as friends (and I do not say that to try to justify misuse of the PP F&F policy).
 
gk4ever2 said:
I pretty much agree with that. Another question is: what constitutes "friends" as it relates to PP F&F? I would consider some people in this forum as friends (and I do not say that to try to justify misuse of the PP F&F policy).
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Most of us are good friends here on BF, especially on the Busse sub :)...and if I wanted to give you a Christmas gift of $50, there is nothing wrong with using the PayPal F&F option for that transaction. But note that that is a true gift...you didn't send me a knife in exchange for my free will offering to you.

Likewise, charitable giving does not consist of a transaction of goods/services back to you as the giver.

So, in many honest folks cases-- like yours I'm sensing-- it's a problem with the actual name "Friends and Family." The actual name itself leads one to believe they can conduct business fee-free if both parties are close friends or kin and trust each other without question.

IMHO, PayPal may be better served if they titled Friends & Family "Gifts and Charity" instead. May be a bit more clear cut on the intent behind the service.

So, I'd say folks who use F&F to get their financial deals done fit neatly into one of two categories:

1. Those who honestly don't know better.
---or---
2. Those who definitely know better.
 
I always took the "Friends & Family" as a way to send a friend or family member in dire straits FUNDS without adding additional monies to help both parties separated by distance. The Fact that funds can transfer almost immediately without waiting on USPS to deliver a letter with a check is convenient in a dire situation!

If you can afford to Buy and Sell expensive Knives you can certainly pay for the services offered by PP.
 
PeteyTwoPointOne said:
Most of us are good friends here on BF, especially on the Busse sub :)...and if I wanted to give you a Christmas gift of $50, there is nothing wrong with using the PayPal F&F option for that transaction. But note that that is a true gift...you didn't send me a knife in exchange for my free will offering to you.

Likewise, charitable giving does not consist of a transaction of goods/services back to you as the giver.

So, in many honest folks cases-- like yours I'm sensing-- it's a problem with the actual name "Friends and Family." The actual name itself leads one to believe they can conduct business fee-free if both parties are close friends or kin and trust each other without question.

IMHO, PayPal may be better served if they titled Friends & Family "Gifts and Charity" instead. May be a bit more clear cut on the intent behind the service.

So, I'd say folks who use F&F to get their financial deals done fit neatly into one of two categories:

1. Those who honestly don't know better.
---or---
2. Those who definitely know better.
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Thanks for the great explanation, Ive used f&f as a buyer without thinking too deeply into it, I certainly won't anymore. I usually do it if the seller gives me the option, and one of us ends up "saving" 3-4%. And i did kind of understand f&f the way you describe, like its cool to use if you trust the person as a friend, but I also kind of new that that wasnt the case because one time I put in a note to the seller that made it obvious I was buying something and paypal froze the transaction and i had to redo it as a purchase, but I didnt really take it to heart, but now I truly know better, no more buying with f&f for me.

Thanks for the breakdown.
 
This really belongs in the feedback forum.
The Busse forum is for discussing Busse and kin knives
 
Thanks for the explanations of F&F. I should probably add that I have never used PP, so I am not extremely familiar with all of their policies.
 
DamascusBowie said:
Thanks for the great explanation...
Thanks for the breakdown.
Click to expand...

You're welcome :)

gk4ever2 said:
Thanks for the explanations of F&F. I should probably add that I have never used PP, so I am not extremely familiar with all of their policies.
Click to expand...

We've all been there before....the best thing about BladeForums is that it's a great place to exchange facts and knowledge with good folks and learn about these things in a friendly manner! :)
 
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