Shipping outside the US... Please help.

Steel-Junky

Steel-Junky

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So I made a deal with on of our fine members from Canada this week and we're shipping each other some goodies. He instructed me to lable it as a gift and to give it a declared value of $60.00 so he wouldn't have to pay import taxes on it. The pacakge is worth $500.00. When I went to the Post Office to fill out the customs form and all that... they told me that I have to put the "Insured Value" on the Custom's Form in the top right corner, and that the Insured value couldn't be different than the declared value. How can I do this... I don't want to send it uninsured as I want to make sure the item is backed up... but then how can I also list it as only having a value of $60.00 for the declared list if it's insured for $500.00. The Post Office guy said he simply wouldn't fill it out that way for me and that if I insured it for $500.00 that's what he was gonna put in the "Insured Amount" box on the customs form. He said something about falsifying official documents or something. Can any of you give me some pointers?
 
Sounds like you need to contact your trading partner and renegotiate the trade. I would not agree to misrepresent the value, not unless I was willing to lose the knife.
all da best,
rats...
 
i never falsify customs forms.

1. it is a legal document and is discoverable.
2. if it gets "lost", you are sol.
 
You have to make the decision as to whether you want to falsify the declared value of the knife. If you do, you will not be able to insure it for more than the declared value. If you do this you should make it very clear to the other person that you will accept no responsibility for the package after having taken it to the Post Office and you provided him with a tracking number.

Also, be very careful what you ship to Canada. Folders that can be flicked open are being confiscated by some of the Canada Customs Inspectors, so make sure all pivots are tightened.
 
Please listen to Keith and Morimotom.

Never lie. Ever. Your integrity is worth far, far more than any knife.

Definitely go back and re-negotiate with the buyer. If the buyer cannot accept an honest valuation and proper insurance, it's time to find another buyer.

Sorry if that sounds a bit harsh, but this is one of my hot buttons.

And ... you did ask.:)

EDIT: Oh, I should add that I've shipped knives and other valuables to Canada over a dozen times, so this is not an unusual situation for me.
 
I agree... but for the purposes of this deal it's a little late as they have already sent their end... It was suggested privately that I might be able to lable it as (Sharpening Service) worth only $50.00 but still insure the Knife itself for $500.00... wouldn't that work? Assuming that it's your own knife coming back from the States would customs charge a tax?
 
Please listen to Keith and Morimotom and OldPhysics. It is simply not worth your reputation to break the law for a trade or otherwise.

If the deception is discovered by Canada Customs, both the sender and receiver's address will be flagged and in the future, all your shipments will come under extra scrutiny. It is just not worth it.
 
A.P.F. said:
Please listen to Keith and Morimotom and OldPhysics. It is simply not worth your reputation to break the law for a trade or otherwise.

If the deception is discovered by Canada Customs, both the sender and receiver's address will be flagged and in the future, all your shipments will come under extra scrutiny. It is just not worth it.
Click to expand...

Good advice......

Don't do it ...... explain to your purchaser and make another plan. This one will end in tears.
 
Another vote from a Canadian.

Do not lie on those forms. It isn't worth the potential problems and puts you at risk since it is your name on the form.

Accurately declare the item (Ex. Knife - Fixed blade) and value. You won't be able to insure the package for $500 and declare it for a $60 value.

I have purchased a lot of blades from the US and the tax costs at the border are just part of the cost of the hobby!

People in Canada who ask sellers to make false declarations on government forms are just giving us a bad rep. :(
 
“Oh what a tangled web we weave, When first we practice to deceive” (Sir Walter Scott)

One lie leads to another. Lies in print have consequences, especially on official forms. NOT a good idea.

We live in a complex world, but we seldom get to warn everyone before the crunch comes. That's why Bladeforums has a FAQ and Exchange forum rules as guidance. We also have stickies in FEEDBACK to help.

At this point, you have few choices, none of them good.

1) Break your word to your partner in the deal and declare $500 value to match the insurance. You better ask before doing this to him.
2) Take a chance on loss and declare $60 for both value and insurance. You would be stuck for the difference in case of loss.
3) a) Send back his half of the deal and say you didn't realize the ramifications, and will not lie, unless b) he agrees to settle for $60 insurance if the package is lost.

I think you need to contact him. As a Canadian, he may be more familiar with these complexities, and may suggest an amicable agreement, perhaps to point 3 b) above.
 
Advise taken... the knife is going out with proper declared value. Thank you so much guys... I'm glad I can get the advise of some folks who have done this sort of thing before.
 
If you will allow me..

I posted about this already in the CONUS thred, but bear with me.

Having to pay taxes and duties does suck and I hate it as much as anyone else. When it's a deal between two individuals it's not like anyone is destroying the economy and marketplace with a fleetfull of cheap and nasty imports, but what can you do? The law is the same for all, which in the general scheme of things is a good thing. Or so one would think.

Please don't break the laws on purpose and with intent. And if you do, don't post it in public. If the laws are unjust, consult your MP/congressman. If they don't give a shite, elect new ones. I know it's not that simple but "that's the way the cookie crumbles".

Governments ghange, laws change. Maybe some day it will be easier to ship nice knives to each other. Let's hope so.


(All the above idealism does not mean that my favourite song quote has changed.. "Meet the new Boss / same as the old Boss" I try to remain a cynical optimist no matter what.) :)
 
Keith Montgomery said:
You have to make the decision as to whether you want to falsify the declared value of the knife. If you do, you will not be able to insure it for more than the declared value. If you do this you should make it very clear to the other person that you will accept no responsibility for the package after having taken it to the Post Office and you provided him with a tracking number.
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+1

If he wants you to lie about the cost then you defo cant do anything about the package if its lost.

Coming from the UK im am more than familiour with rediculous charges and
can sympathise with any one who has to deal with them but it can be more
trouble than its worth trying to avoid them.
 
I wonder if in a trade situation where im shipping you a $500 knife and you are shipping me a knife of the same value is there really sales tax due by Canada customs? How do you prove that is the scenario? I am always asked to declare knives at a lower value when I ship them and normally i will not but in a trade situation I wonder if there is a better way.

The taxes being charged in Canada are usually a the PST (Provincial sales tax) and the GST (Federal goods and services tax) they both are due in a sale but I dont think they would apply in a trade.
Anybody know?
 
Steel-Junky said:
Advise taken... the knife is going out with proper declared value. Thank you so much guys... I'm glad I can get the advise of some folks who have done this sort of thing before.
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I am very relieved to see you show such good judgment.:)

It may be awkward now, but eventually (soon!) you'll feel much better for it.

It's a tough old world we live in. We have to make compromises every day. Except in one place: never compromise your integrity.:thumbup:
 
A couple of my own thoughts on this situation.

What if the knife is used or out of production, do you declare the retail value of the knife or the actual value you collected?

Example, I buy a used RAT RC-4 for $50. Does the $50 get used or the retail value of ~$100. The implications are that I would pay government sales tax of .06*$50 or .06*$100.

Example 2, I buy a Busse knife for $800, however it originally sold for $400 direct from Busse. How do we valuate this deal? The knife is only worth $800 to me because that's what I agreed to pay. If I had to flip it quickly, perhaps I would only recover the list price because I originally overpaid. In this case would it nor be preferable to use the actual list price?

Thoughts?
 
NetShocK said:
A couple of my own thoughts on this situation.

What if the knife is used or out of production, do you declare the retail value of the knife or the actual value you collected?

Example, I buy a used RAT RC-4 for $50. Does the $50 get used or the retail value of ~$100. The implications are that I would pay government sales tax of .06*$50 or .06*$100.

Example 2, I buy a Busse knife for $800, however it originally sold for $400 direct from Busse. How do we valuate this deal? The knife is only worth $800 to me because that's what I agreed to pay. If I had to flip it quickly, perhaps I would only recover the list price because I originally overpaid. In this case would it nor be preferable to use the actual list price?

Thoughts?
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For Customs purposes you are supposed to use the price that was paid for the knife.
 
Yes and by that logic he should use an insured of $500, declare $0.00 on customs, and mark it as a trade.

To the OP I would clarify whether the insure value and the declared value, in fact, must be the same.

Ok, I just answered my own question, Insured value cannot be more than declared value: http://pe.usps.com/text/imm/immc3_007.htm
 
Last edited:
NetShocK said:
Yes and by that logic he should use an insured of $500, declare $0.00 on customs, and mark it as a trade.
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Nope, that's not the way it works. The value is whatever the value was determined to be for the trade. Just because there was no money that changed hands doesn't mean that the knives have no value.
 
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