It doesn't matter if it's out of date or not. It is published by USPS Aviation Security and it is superceded by the Domestic Mail Manual. I agree that the true regulations are quite clear - after all, I wrote some of them.
-
All For Sale threads must have a pic showing the knife being sold with written date listed & your username! - scammers hate this one trick! The rules for The Exchange can be found here. Please read and follow them. Stop using Paypal Friends & Family and follow our best practices to prevent getting ripped off or having a bad deal.
-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Shipping pocket knives USPS illegal
- Thread starter colubrid
- Start date
It doesn't matter if it's out of date or not. It is published by USPS Aviation Security and it is superceded by the Domestic Mail Manual. I agree that the true regulations are quite clear - after all, I wrote some of them.
mycroft,
what about this link? It is the same as the poster regs but changed the old CO28 numbers to new ones,,
http://www.usps.com/cpim/ftp/posters/pos138/pos138_back.html
Last edited:
I went down and asked our local Post Master about this issue. She told me what her understanding of the current regulations were while and even printed out the links so I could refer to them later. However, she did point out that interpretations may vary.
She first took me to this link:
122 Hazardous, Restricted, and Perishable
She pointed out that B-11 which lists "Sharp objects (knives, switchblades, stilettos)" points to section 601.11 of the Domestic Mail Manual for more information.
601 Mailability
Section 11.5 says the following:
She said that as long as the knife doesn't have "a blade that opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button or other device in the handle, or by operations of inertia, gravity, or both, or with a detachable blade propelled by a spring-operated mechanism" I am safe to send it anywhere as long as the knife doesn't violate local laws. She also said that insurance would be paid in the event that the knife was lost or damaged en route, but that I would have to prove that I accurately reported the insured value.
Edit: I see that Esav posted the same regs while I was typing. Darned Esav. :grumpy:
She first took me to this link:
122 Hazardous, Restricted, and Perishable
She pointed out that B-11 which lists "Sharp objects (knives, switchblades, stilettos)" points to section 601.11 of the Domestic Mail Manual for more information.
601 Mailability
Section 11.5 says the following:
She said that as long as the knife doesn't have "a blade that opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button or other device in the handle, or by operations of inertia, gravity, or both, or with a detachable blade propelled by a spring-operated mechanism" I am safe to send it anywhere as long as the knife doesn't violate local laws. She also said that insurance would be paid in the event that the knife was lost or damaged en route, but that I would have to prove that I accurately reported the insured value.
Edit: I see that Esav posted the same regs while I was typing. Darned Esav. :grumpy:
Yeah, that's the current online version of the Poster 138, but it's out of date too. Just scanning it I notice that day-old emus are not listed as mailable and cremated human ashes are listed as mailable only using Registered Mail, where they are now also mailable using Express Mail. The DMM is incorporated by reference in the Code of Federal Regulations and it supercedes all other publications.
Esav Benyamin
MidniteSuperMod
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2000
- Messages
- 90,915
colubrid, that is a poster, a guide, not the relevant regulations.
See my highlighted post for 601 11.5 etc. and CarpScot's summary of the same material. The poster collapsed two parts of the regulations into something that neither was meant to say. You cannot accept a guide over the specific wording of the DMM, especially when it directs you to exactly that part of the DMM we quoted.
Section 11.5 really doesn't say anything unless you continue to follow more sections after each clause that explain it. That is what they went over with me and those don't say you can ship a knife unless it goes to a manufactuere and it is properly packaged, both sender and receivers address are on there ect.....
Esav Benyamin
MidniteSuperMod
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2000
- Messages
- 90,915
She said that as long as the knife doesn't have "a blade that opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button or other device in the handle, or by operations of inertia, gravity, or both, or with a detachable blade propelled by a spring-operated mechanism" I am safe to send it anywhere as long as the knife doesn't violate local laws. She also said that insurance would be paid in the event that the knife was lost or damaged en route, but that I would have to prove that I accurately reported the insured value.
Edit: I see that Esav posted the same regs while I was typing. Darned Esav. :grumpy:
Not at all. Your postmaster's explanation was very much to the point, and said it all clearly.
Esav Benyamin
MidniteSuperMod
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2000
- Messages
- 90,915
Read my post # 90 again:
Note that 11.5.1 a. and b. define the switchblade and other restricted knives and designate authorized agents.
11.5.2 may require recipient identification as authorized.
11.5.3 does NOT require authorized agencies for knives not described in 11.5.1.
11.5.1 and 11.5.2 define switchblades etc. as unmailable except to authorized parties. 11.5.3 deals with knives not defined as switchblades etc. and allows them in ordinary mail. Since they are not switchblades etc. they do not require authorization at either end.
"that are otherwise mailable"... means that its not a switchblade or gravity knife.
Thats why this was right under the part about switch blades. That seems pretty clear to me, but I could see how the wording could confuse even some postal workers.
Esav Benyamin
MidniteSuperMod
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2000
- Messages
- 90,915
Workers? As a supervisor and manager, I took courses in how to read these documents. So should she.
* ****** **** ****** *
mycroftt, I'm afraid you'll have to handle it without me. Washington DC? ha ha ha ha ha
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2008
- Messages
- 9,366
So, I shouldn't have sent my OTF to Ben at Edge Pro to sharpen it for me?
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2006
- Messages
- 758
I agree with Esav that this portion of the USPS Domestic Mailing Manual does seem to be very clear that ordinary knives need only to be properly wrapped and the sections 11.5.1 and 11.5.2 do not apply.
DMM 601 Mailability
11.0
Other Restricted and Nonmailable Matter
11.5
Knives and Sharp Instruments
11.5.1 Mailability
Knives (including sharp-pointed instruments such as stilettos that lack cutting edges) with a blade that opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button or other device in the handle, or by operations of inertia, gravity, or both, or with a detachable blade propelled by a spring-operated mechanism, are mailable only when sent to:
a.
The respective government's or organization's designated supply or procurement officers and employees ordering, procuring, or buying such knives for use with the activities of the federal government; the National Guard, the Air National Guard, or the militia of a state, territory, or the District of Columbia; or the municipal government of the District of Columbia or of the government of any state or territory, or of any county, city, or other political subdivision of a state or territory.
b.
Manufacturers of such knives, or bona fide dealers of such knives, in connection with a shipment made under an order from any person designated in 11.5.1a.
11.5.2 Addressee Identification
Before delivering a shipment (or parcel) that contains an article or articles described in 11.5.1, a USPS employee may require that the recipient identify himself or herself as in one of the categories in 11.5.1a.
11.5.3 Wrapping
Sharp-pointed or sharp-edged instruments such as knives, tools, ice picks, and razor blades, that are otherwise mailable, must be wrapped to protect their points and edges from cutting through the outer carton in which they are mailed.
However, USPS publication 52 dealing with hazardous, restricted and perishable mail lists Knives and Sharp Instruments as restricted mail and states in section 441.1 that a ruling about mailability may be requested from the local postmaster.
44 Knives and Sharp Instruments
441 Definitions
441.1 General
Sharp instruments include all sharppointed or sharpedged implements such as knives, tools, ice picks, razor blades, stilettos, or similar devices. When uncertain about the mailability of a sharp instrument or a switchblade knife, a ruling may be requested from the local postmaster (see 215.3).
441.2 Switchblade Knife
A switchblade knife has a blade that opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button or other device in the handle, or by operation of inertia, gravity, or both.
215.3 Restricted Matter or Perishable Matter
To obtain a ruling on the mailability of restricted or perishable matter, a mailer should provide the mailing office with following:
a. Detailed description of the restricted or perishable matter.
b. Special precautions necessary to permit handling without harm to Postal Service employees or damage to property.
c. Proposed method of packaging.
d. Explanation of any local, state, or federal regulations that apply to shipping such matter.
e. Quantity per mailpiece and per mailing, frequency of mailing, and post office(s) of mailing.
When information about restricted or perishable matter is insufficient to make a mailability determination, or when there is doubt about the mailability of a particular item, contact the PCSC.
While the latter document does not say that a knife cannot be mailed, it does imply that the local postmaster may decide whether or not it can be mailed. This seems to me to be a contradiction to the first document. I have no doubt that if I read through all of the published documents, manuals, posters and publications on the USPS.gov website that I would find other contradictory publications.
DMM 601 Mailability
11.0
Other Restricted and Nonmailable Matter
11.5
Knives and Sharp Instruments
11.5.1 Mailability
Knives (including sharp-pointed instruments such as stilettos that lack cutting edges) with a blade that opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button or other device in the handle, or by operations of inertia, gravity, or both, or with a detachable blade propelled by a spring-operated mechanism, are mailable only when sent to:
a.
The respective government's or organization's designated supply or procurement officers and employees ordering, procuring, or buying such knives for use with the activities of the federal government; the National Guard, the Air National Guard, or the militia of a state, territory, or the District of Columbia; or the municipal government of the District of Columbia or of the government of any state or territory, or of any county, city, or other political subdivision of a state or territory.
b.
Manufacturers of such knives, or bona fide dealers of such knives, in connection with a shipment made under an order from any person designated in 11.5.1a.
11.5.2 Addressee Identification
Before delivering a shipment (or parcel) that contains an article or articles described in 11.5.1, a USPS employee may require that the recipient identify himself or herself as in one of the categories in 11.5.1a.
11.5.3 Wrapping
Sharp-pointed or sharp-edged instruments such as knives, tools, ice picks, and razor blades, that are otherwise mailable, must be wrapped to protect their points and edges from cutting through the outer carton in which they are mailed.
However, USPS publication 52 dealing with hazardous, restricted and perishable mail lists Knives and Sharp Instruments as restricted mail and states in section 441.1 that a ruling about mailability may be requested from the local postmaster.
44 Knives and Sharp Instruments
441 Definitions
441.1 General
Sharp instruments include all sharppointed or sharpedged implements such as knives, tools, ice picks, razor blades, stilettos, or similar devices. When uncertain about the mailability of a sharp instrument or a switchblade knife, a ruling may be requested from the local postmaster (see 215.3).
441.2 Switchblade Knife
A switchblade knife has a blade that opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button or other device in the handle, or by operation of inertia, gravity, or both.
215.3 Restricted Matter or Perishable Matter
To obtain a ruling on the mailability of restricted or perishable matter, a mailer should provide the mailing office with following:
a. Detailed description of the restricted or perishable matter.
b. Special precautions necessary to permit handling without harm to Postal Service employees or damage to property.
c. Proposed method of packaging.
d. Explanation of any local, state, or federal regulations that apply to shipping such matter.
e. Quantity per mailpiece and per mailing, frequency of mailing, and post office(s) of mailing.
When information about restricted or perishable matter is insufficient to make a mailability determination, or when there is doubt about the mailability of a particular item, contact the PCSC.
While the latter document does not say that a knife cannot be mailed, it does imply that the local postmaster may decide whether or not it can be mailed. This seems to me to be a contradiction to the first document. I have no doubt that if I read through all of the published documents, manuals, posters and publications on the USPS.gov website that I would find other contradictory publications.
Esav Benyamin
MidniteSuperMod
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2000
- Messages
- 90,915
The Postmaster General is Jack Potter. His father Dick Potter was the District Director of Delivery and Collection for the New York Post Office when I worked for him as his budget coordinator.
He introduced me to some union officials one day as his bodyguard, which was funny, considering how much bigger he was than I am.
I think we'll be able to get through this without adding to Jack's workload.
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2006
- Messages
- 758
Another thing that always bothers me about these government regulations and most knife laws is that they always put in the clever little definition of a switchblade that inlcudes "a blade that opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button or other device in the handle, or by operation of inertia, gravity, or both".
Inertia, by definition, is "a property of matter by which it remains at rest or in uniform motion in the same straight line unless acted upon by some external force".
Thus, by this definiton, ANY folding knife could be considered a switchblade since merely opening the blade requires inertia. At least I don't know of any that will open without some external force.
Inertia, by definition, is "a property of matter by which it remains at rest or in uniform motion in the same straight line unless acted upon by some external force".
Thus, by this definiton, ANY folding knife could be considered a switchblade since merely opening the blade requires inertia. At least I don't know of any that will open without some external force.
Why MYCROFTT of course, since he's so smug about having 'written them':foot: Why not take the side of fellow knifenuts for a change since you're up there 'writing the rules against us':grumpy: Your posts in this thread have the same tone as the rest of the folks we love to hate in WDC..with good reason. There I said what lots of folks with no nuts were afraid to post
