Shootout: CPM-S90V vs CTS-20CP

Ankerson, do you think that this may mean we will see more of this steel? S90V has been an elusive white whale in the knife community and it'd be a shame for that to happen with CTS20CP.

I'm no steel head but I am curious about the "micro melt" process. How does it differ from powdered metallurgy (like the CPM process)?
 
D1omedes said:
Ankerson, do you think that this may mean we will see more of this steel? S90V has been an elusive white whale in the knife community and it'd be a shame for that to happen with CTS20CP.

I'm no steel head but I am curious about the "micro melt" process. How does it differ from powdered metallurgy (like the CPM process)?
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That's their label for the 2nd generation PM process they use, finer and cleaner than 1st generation, Bohler uses 3rd generation, even finer and more refined.

Lets hope we see more of this steel.
 
Ankerson said:
That's their label for the 2nd generation PM process they use, finer and cleaner than 1st generation, Bohler uses 3rd generation, even finer and more refined.

Lets hope we see more of this steel.
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:thumbup:+1. There better be more Spydies w/this steel;)
 
skwurll said:
:thumbup:+1. There better be more Spydies w/this steel;)
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Yeah really, it's leaps and bounds better than CTS-XHP in every way from what I have personally seen from both steels.

All I can say is MORE....
 
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D1omedes said:
Ankerson, do you think that this may mean we will see more of this steel? S90V has been an elusive white whale in the knife community and it'd be a shame for that to happen with CTS20CP.
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hopefully spyderco treats CTS-20CP in american/taiwanese models, like they treat ZDP for their japanese models.
 
Ankerson said:
That's their label for the 2nd generation PM process they use, finer and cleaner than 1st generation, Bohler uses 3rd generation, even finer and more refined.

Lets hope we see more of this steel.
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Is CPM 1st generation? I've been wondering about that for a while, as XHP seemed relatively easy to sharpen to a mirror finish.

Ultimately though, I think whether we see 20CP used more often or not will depend on how easy it is to heat treat and machine. I can see it in future sprint runs, but I have some doubt about whether or not such class of steels would ever be in a full production run.
 
Noctis3880 said:
Is CPM 1st generation? I've been wondering about that for a while, as XHP seemed relatively easy to sharpen to a mirror finish.

Ultimately though, I think whether we see 20CP used more often or not will depend on how easy it is to heat treat and machine. I can see it in future sprint runs, but I have some doubt about whether or not such class of steels would ever be in a full production run.
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Crucible is 1st Generation steel.
 
As promised, I touched my sweaty forehead and pressed it onto the blades of both knives with my finger(so there's sweat, and whatever oils are on my skin). Here are the results about 12 hours after I did that:
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Both knives faired about the same, and the resulting crud was easily wiped off with soap and water. I did check about 2 hours after applying the sweat, and found nothing much aside from the fingerprint. I wouldn't take the knives to saltwater, but it's stainless enough to hold up to all but the most abusive negligence. So unless you're cutting citrus and you leave the blade unwashed for over an hour, it's all good:thumbup:.
 
Noctis3880 said:
As promised, I touched my sweaty forehead and pressed it onto the blades of both knives with my finger(so there's sweat, and whatever oils are on my skin). Here are the results about 12 hours after I did that:

Both knives faired about the same, and the resulting crud was easily wiped off with soap and water. I did check about 2 hours after applying the sweat, and found nothing much aside from the fingerprint. I wouldn't take the knives to saltwater, but it's stainless enough to hold up to all but the most abusive negligence. So unless you're cutting citrus and you leave the blade unwashed for over an hour, it's all good:thumbup:.
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Interesting but gross, :p
 
The paramilitary 2s are my favorite knives that spyderco makes!!! My s90v one is just starting to need sharpening after 3 months of use....by "needs sharpening" I mean that it has lost its shaving edge....the working edge will probably last through the summer. I love this knife!!!

I am so glad I made the investment....thus far my favorite knife ever purchased. $189 well spent!!! :D
 
Ankerson said:
In production blades, well either S90V or 20CP will do better than either M390 or ELMAX.

Customs I would believe that might be a different story.
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Can you help a newbie understand a little bit ? I always hear about custom heat treats being so much more effective what would they do so differently? are we talking about each blade being heat treated individually?and I thought that all steels have a recipe from the factory that optimizes that steels characteristics-thanks for all the things I'm learning guys
 
BITEME said:
Can you help a newbie understand a little bit ? I always hear about custom heat treats being so much more effective what would they do so differently? are we talking about each blade being heat treated individually?and I thought that all steels have a recipe from the factory that optimizes that steels characteristics-thanks for all the things I'm learning guys
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production blades are built for the general pubic so they have to be geared more toward a wider variety of uses. also, production blades have to be made in volume so not every blade will be perfect. there will be small variations in the heat treat when a company is making hundred's of blades at a time. with some of these high-alloy steels, being 20-30 degrees off will make a difference. good companies will only have small variations from blade to blade and batch to batch.

a custom knife is ordered for a specific purpose and usually heat treated in smaller batches or individually. because the knife maker knows what and how a blade will be used, the geometry and heat treat can be set up for that purpose.
 
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BITEME said:
Can you help a newbie understand a little bit ? I always hear about custom heat treats being so much more effective what would they do so differently? are we talking about each blade being heat treated individually?and I thought that all steels have a recipe from the factory that optimizes that steels characteristics-thanks for all the things I'm learning guys
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In production heat treating they cook hundreds of blades at a time and depending on how good the furnace is there will be variations in Temp and in how fast the blades are cooled down. What that does is create some variation in the process and after it's all said and done there could be a range of hardness between the blades. So in the end they try and be on the conservative side so they don't get blades that are too hard. That's unless they have a Aerospace 10 - 30 Bar furnace and then they can really control it. Most aren't near that rating, more like 2 bar or 4 bar (4 Bar is good) so the ending hardness can vary 1 point or more.

Custom guys that have their own furnaces can do one or 2 blades at a time and really tailor the Heat treating and tempering process to get the blades to do what they want them to do. They know who the blade is for and what it will be used for so they can custom tailor the blades to do exactly what they need it to do. If it's not exactly what they want they can put it back in and make adjustments until they do.
 
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thanks jimnolimit & ankerson you guys are awesome,I hope you guys continue all your testing and evaluations-thanks again
 
Thanks for your work (and I do mean work) on demonstrating the two steels, Jim. It looks like Carpenter is a rising star.
 
What's a "bar" Jim? Unit for pressure, or something else we should know about?

Thanks for everything once again:)
 
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