Short article on Snake Bite Kits

HikingMano

HikingMano

Joined
Sep 2, 2008
Messages
7,702
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124208165196508345.html

This is an interesting little article on the subject. I remember asking the same question of our resident herpetologists a while ago, and the responses were generally the same IIRC.

I used to carry one of those Sawyer kits because I thought it was better than nothing, but I have removed it from my daypack for a while now. I can't find enough evidence yet to justify adding it to the FAK. Those two studies mentioned in the article sound interesting, I should dig em up :).
 
I used to carry a little snakebite kit when I was younger because we were always running into rattlers. But all the recent info seems to say they won't do much good, and will cause more harm if you start cutting into it etc. I haven't carried one for years now. Hopefully by being careful, I'll never need to know for sure :D
 
Yep, it does seem like it might even cause more harm, even the suction based systems.


Back in college, we were doing a mini-hike / docent-led tour through our school's biological preserve (after signing a waiver iirc...). I was in the front of the group and talking with a classmate, when I saw something coiled up on the side of the trail. I sorta just reacted instinctively and skipped/jumped towards the center of the trail. I don't remember what exactly happened in the moment, but my recollection was that the rattler actually lunged at me as I was moving. The whole group just stopped and watched it slither off. The bug-eyed docent said that was the largest rattler he'd ever seen on the preserve.

Now, I think if it had really wanted to bite me, it woulda got me. I have no fantasies about being faster than a rattler. So after thinking about it, I thought it must have been a bluff lunge of sorts, just a warning. I thought it weird though, that it never rattled, and that it just sat there on the side of the trail as the group came trampling towards it. And it was a shady spot of the trail too; the whole situation just struck me as atypical rattler behavior.

Anyway, I've always been especially careful after that. Often find myself scanning the side of the trail and poking around rocks with my hiking staff before sitting down. I've seen rattlers up here in NorCal a handful of times since then, and sometimes even basking right on the side of a trail. So yeah, I too, hope I never have a bad run-in with one. :)
 
The snake bit medicine I have always relyed on is southern comfort. Kinda funny though, when you aren't using the medicine, you rarely need it because you see a snake, and avoid it. When your being extra precautious, you will see a snake and say, hey, watch this. Then you need the meds!!!
 
Wow, your quick reaction could have still saved a possible bite. I have run into about 5 snakes on hikes that past few weeks. Two of them were coiled right by the side of the trail, and one got into a coiled position as I got closer to it but none of them rattled. They were sure ready to strike though if I got to close. Being on the lookout and watching where I step is the only thing between enjoying watching them and a possible bite.
 
I carried a kit for years, but retired it a few years back when I read that most experts said the were worthless and might do more harm then good. :(

I love old movies where the hero cuts the wound with a big Bowie and proceeds to suck the venom out. :thumbup: :cool: :thumbup:





"If you're not living on the edge, …you're taking up too much space."

Big Mike

Forest & Stream
 
tknife said:
Wow, your quick reaction could have still saved a possible bite. I have run into about 5 snakes on hikes that past few weeks. Two of them were coiled right by the side of the trail, and one got into a coiled position as I got closer to it but none of them rattled. They were sure ready to strike though if I got to close. Being on the lookout and watching where I step is the only thing between enjoying watching them and a possible bite.
Click to expand...

Ah! Good to know that my first experience wasn't that abnormal after all :thumbup: I was under the impression they always rattled unless you surprised them somehow. Of the other ones I have seen (4-5 in the last 5 years! vs. your 5 in the past couple of weeks T!:eek:), three of em didn't rattle but I thought it was because they were on the move. My GF is terrified of snakes, she freaks out even if she crosses paths with a little garden type snake. :) It's definitely awesome to see them out in the wild though, they really are beautiful creatures :thumbup:

Haha, and yes, I used to always wonder if the good ole big bowie cut & suck actually worked :D
 
rksoon said:
Haha...kinda like this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G79ByhftQjA
Click to expand...

Seemed like a good idea at the time! haha...
Two years ago while doing some white water rafting in eastern Oregon, we were taking a break on the bank. I spotted a snake about 10 inches long, and picked it up, everyone was pretty well inebriated at that point, I was holding it by the tail while it tried to bite me. One of my friends came over and said, oh, you caugth a baby rattler, cool! oops
 
I find it odd that they aren't useful, yet I talked with a friend of mine who works at Gander Mountain and said they sell a lot of them. Are people really that uninformed? I mean, I understand just for "personal comfort" but he says some of the people talk about how it would save them and all this other jazz. I have owned one, but it was a gift.
 
Anyone who would willfully suck venom into their mouth.. I dont even have the words. I guess they will get what they have coming to them.
 
EMT_Lee said:
Anyone who would willfully suck venom into their mouth.. I dont even have the words. I guess they will get what they have coming to them.
Click to expand...

I was under the impression that you can ingest some venom with no ill effects. The caveat is that you have no sores/cuts/etc inside your mouth/throat/stomach.

I'm not saying that anyone should drink venom, just that I saw a show about a week ago talking about rattle snakes and it said that the venom only works through blood, or something like that.
 
wulfshrunting said:
I was under the impression that you can ingest some venom with no ill effects. The caveat is that you have no sores/cuts/etc inside your mouth/throat/stomach.

I'm not saying that anyone should drink venom, just that I saw a show about a week ago talking about rattle snakes and it said that the venom only works through blood, or something like that.
Click to expand...

Well, that might be true. I'm certainly no venom or snake expert. However, it doesnt really make sense to me. I mean, you can give medicine via sublingual route (under the tongue) and the medicine passes through the oral mucosa and enters into your bloodstream. I would imagine that snake venom would do much the same thing. Granted, you would have to hold it in your mouth, but still.

Also, even if that is not the case, I dont want to risk the fact that I might have bitten my gum in my sleep, didnt realize it, and now have a small open wound inside my mouth for the venom to enter. :p

I stand by my statement: Anyone who would willfully suck venom into their mouth needs to rethink some things. :D
 
I've got one of the medical papers if anyone wants it. Send me a PM. Great post.


I also have tested the sawyer out on myself. No, not with snakes, I'm not that sick.
I used about 6 bees. 3 with the sawyer, three without. No effects. even a millisecond after the bee sting. (honeybees, not wasps or yellowjackets, permanent attached stinger)
Once I get the HD vid camera, I'll make a woodsmonkey/joejackass video using it.
 
Awesome Joe, I look forward to it :D:thumbup:

As for the venom in the mouth thing, yes, too many things that could be bad with that situation :) It could conceivably turn one person's problem into a problem for two. Seems like just another of those wilderness first aid myths perpetuated by hollywood or popular culture. Kinda like having your friend piss on your jellyfish sting :barf: (vinegar is your best bet for most jellyfish stings).


ETA: @ Oregon Knife Guy, good thing you didn't get tagged. I'm sure a bite even from a little rattler would spoil a nice day :)
 
Last edited:
A guy showed up at the ER today with a copperhead bite to the hand. Apparently the first hospital he went to told him they'd just 'watch it'... and they watched it swell through to his shoulder. Then he went to a second hospital and they didn't have enough antivenom. Finally got here and we got things taken care of. But that was my first time dosing or playing with the antivenom (which is actually kind of tricky to get together and costs about $4k per vial).

Anyway, some nasty looking injuries and not necessarily 'saved' if you get to a local hospital, it's all about the antivenom.
 
SpookyPistolero said:
A guy showed up at the ER today with a copperhead bite to the hand. Apparently the first hospital he went to told him they'd just 'watch it'... and they watched it swell through to his shoulder. Then he went to a second hospital and they didn't have enough antivenom. Finally got here and we got things taken care of. But that was my first time dosing or playing with the antivenom (which is actually kind of tricky to get together and costs about $4k per vial).

Anyway, some nasty looking injuries and not necessarily 'saved' if you get to a local hospital, it's all about the antivenom.
Click to expand...

Man I would have been pissed if I were that guy. Three hospitals before treatment!? Jeez. And yup, it is indeed all about antivenin.

Speaking about injuries, I don't remember if I originally read this here, but I managed to find this story again: http://www.rattlesnakebite.org/



ETA: On a related note, I wonder if that rattlesnake vaccine for dogs actually works as well as its manufacturer claims it does. If it really does improve outcome in canine envenomization, might be worth it for dog owners who hike with their dogs in rattlesnake country.
 
Last edited:
Joezilla said:
I've got one of the medical papers if anyone wants it. Send me a PM. Great post.


I also have tested the sawyer out on myself. No, not with snakes, I'm not that sick.
I used about 6 bees. 3 with the sawyer, three without. No effects. even a millisecond after the bee sting. (honeybees, not wasps or yellowjackets, permanent attached stinger)
Once I get the HD vid camera, I'll make a woodsmonkey/joejackass video using it.
Click to expand...

Takin the pain for science. Thanks Bro - your words have gotten this out of my kit.

What is the point of taking up room - I can use the box to hold first aid supplies! ;)

TF
 
Here's another small excerpt from a review article, regarding first aid of the bite, that I thought you guys might find interesting. Basically why I don't carry a snake bite kit.

Retrospective review of snake bite victims. Nazim MH, Gupta S, Hashmi S, Zuberi J, Wilson A, Roberts L, Karimi K. W V Med J. 2008 Sep-Oct;104(5):30-4.

First-aid techniques such as arterial
tourniquets, application of ice, and
wound incisions are ineffective and
can be harmful; suction with a venom
extractor within the first five minutes
after the bite has been advocated,
however these suction devices
result in minimal reduction of the
venom burden and can cause skin
damage (12). Conservative measures,
such as immobilization of the affected
extremity in a functional position
below the level of the heart to delay
the systemic absorption of the toxin
are now advocated until emergency
care can be administered (13).
Compression dressings on the
bite wound are advocated in
some parts of the world to delay
systemic absorption of the toxin.
This works well with elapid toxin(e.g., in Australia) which primarily
causes neurotoxicity without tissue
necrosis. The vipers present in the
U.S. have locally necrotic venom.
A compression dressing would
increase local tissue destruction and
thus is not recommended.
Click to expand...

As well as the following on field treatment from the NEJM...

Treatment in the Field

After a bite from any venomous snake, the victim should be moved beyond striking distance, placed at rest, kept warm, and transported immediately to the nearest medical facility. The injured part of the body should be immobilized in a functional position below the level of the heart. Rings, watches, and constrictive clothing should be removed, and no stimulants should be administered. Previously recommended first-aid measures such as tourniquets,18 incision and suction,19 cryotherapy,20 and electric-shock therapy21 are strongly discouraged. Paramedical personnel should focus on support of the airway and breathing, administration of oxygen, establishment of intravenous access in an unaffected extremity, and transportation of the victim to the nearest medical facility. If a tourniquet or constriction band has been placed as first aid, it should be left in place until the victim is evaluated in the hospital and, if appropriate, until infusion of antivenom is initiated.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top