Short Sword Scrap Fun - Advice

[FredyCro]

What do you mean, main reason your keeping your 2x42?

I bought the whole palet of scotchbrite belts and I have 2 gator belts for my 2x42. They costed me approximately the same I would get for the small grinder if I sold it now ( since i got the 2x72). Also for my purposes and the small amount of blades I produce (clean up and finishing) I think these belts will last me 5 more years also its practical to have a second grinder with flat platen.

I have been thinking a lot on my grinding process as to minimize the tool changes to 2x72 and achieved no result worth mentioning (I find myself changing between the attachments too often but it's a trade of for going full custom and no batching I guess).

 

[Dave Hamilton]

I bought the whole palet of scotchbrite belts and I have 2 gator belts for my 2x42. They costed me approximately the same I would get for the small grinder if I sold it now ( since i got the 2x72). Also for my purposes and the small amount of blades I produce (clean up and finishing) I think these belts will last me 5 more years also its practical to have a second grinder with flat platen.

I have been thinking a lot on my grinding process as to minimize the tool changes to 2x72 and achieved no result worth mentioning (I find myself changing between the attachments too often but it's a trade of for going full custom and no batching I guess).

I've looked for trizacts and gators belts for my 2x42 but haven't found anything available. Highest grit in Norton Blaze belts is 120 which I think is TOO rough of a finish. If you could give me advice on where to get them I'd appreciate that. As well, I have heard somewhere you need to completely strip down the body of the grinder to just the wheels to run the thicker belts, did you heavily modify the grinder body?

 

[FredyCro]

I've looked for trizacts and gators belts for my 2x42 but haven't found anything available. Highest grit in Norton Blaze belts is 120 which I think is TOO rough of a finish. If you could give me advice on where to get them I'd appreciate that. As well, I have heard somewhere you need to completely strip down the body of the grinder to just the wheels to run the thicker belts, did you heavily modify the grinder body?

I think I won't be able to help you there. I am based in EU and run a Metabo Bs175 which is actually 50x1020 (just over one and a half inch shy of 42"). I also superglued a hardened platen to it so the belts are really tight on it, I usually need to slack the belt and rund the motor and then tighten it so it can start running. I don't know what kind of platen your grinder has but supegluing one to my Metabo made a huge difference in grind quality. Ceramic glass or a ceramic tile cut to size can also be used, but I am sure you are already aware of that.

I buy most of my belts from score schleifwerkzeuge in Germany.

 

[FredyCro]

Here is a pic of the Metabo running a 120 zyrconium belt with a friend of mine using a piece of 2x4 as a jig to clean up the grind on a small kiridashi. You can see the table rest I added and the hardened platen under the belt. I use my phone as an angle meter to set up the work rest.

 

[Dave Hamilton]

Here is a pic of the Metabo running a 120 zyrconium belt with a friend of mine using a piece of 2x4 as a jig to clean up the grind on a small kiridashi. You can see the table rest I added and the hardened platen under the belt. I use my phone as an angle meter to set up the work rest.

Looking good. I added a 2x3 piece of square tube and ceramic glass platen to my Dayton. Much better work than the flimsy platen that came with it.

To all: i just realized, is my u shaped black walnut handle a bad choice? Being the tang will be open at the top of the handle, which is held by 4 pins, when striking something, that tang could theoretically shatter the wood from the upward force applied in the handle area when blade makes contact. Maybe i should reconsider for g10 as a u shaped handle, g10 should be more ridgid.

 

[JTknives]

For a sword I would think a hidden tang on center would be better. Or go with a full tang and use bolts. You could keep the handle material if you already cut it into a U. No reasion to toss it. You could make a long knife put if it or split it the rest of the way and use it for scales.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

"U" slot sword handles do exist and if done properly will survive most use. Use a good grade epoxy and make sure it fills all voids between the handle and tang. Use Corby bolts.
Traditionally "U" slot sword handles were leather covered and wire wrapped to prevent breaking and hold them together if they did. Look at some photos of military sabers.

 

[Tyson A Wright]

"U" slot sword handles do exist and if done properly will survive most use. Use a good grade epoxy and make sure it fills all voids between the handle and tang. Use Corby bolts.
Traditionally "U" slot sword handles were leather covered and wire wrapped to prevent breaking and hold them together if they did. Look at some photos of military sabers.

I'd be very curious to see a military sabre with a U shaped handle. I've examined a few antique military sabres, and I've never seen a U shaped handle on any of them. The tang of the blade goes through a center hole in the handle, and the metal backstrap is a separate piece on top of the (usually leather-wrapped) wood handle core.

I've done a tiny bit of Italian classical dueling sabre and heavy sabre training (these are adjascent to the martial arts I primarily focus on), and I can't imagine a U shaped handle surviving very long given the force they cut with.

-Tyson

Edited to add photos of a river-find condition antique sabre (probably Portuguese, but who knows?). This is helpful because the non-metal pieces all rotted away, and the metal all rusted together. In the hilt close-up you can see the tang of the blade, distinct from the backstrap.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

I totally agree that a through tang is more common and stronger.
I agree they are not common, but I have repaired one and seen one other. The "U" slot was snugly fitted to the tang and the blackstrap was very tight down on it. Both were ray skin wrapped and wired. I suppose they could have been an old repair of a sword with a broken tang.

 

[Tyson A Wright]

I totally agree that a through tang is more common and stronger.
I agree they are not common, but I have repaired one and seen one other. The "U" slot was snugly fitted to the tang and the blackstrap was very tight down on it. Both were ray skin wrapped and wired. I suppose they could have been an old repair of a sword with a broken tang.

I would love to see that! That would be really interesting! Do you have any photos?

-Tyson

 

[FredyCro]

Surely that massive tang is stronger now then if it would be ground in an undersized through tang? I would do as Stacey says and in the spirit of a zombie slayer do some cool paracord wrap with paracord bathed in thin 2k epoxy.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

I would love to see that! That would be really interesting! Do you have any photos?

-Tyson

I doubt there are photos, as I rarely take them on work I do. I may have the old handle piece in a scrap wood box, but it was probably 10 years ago, so it may have ended up as kindling. I'll look around.

 

[Dave Hamilton]

"U" slot sword handles do exist and if done properly will survive most use. Use a good grade epoxy and make sure it fills all voids between the handle and tang. Use Corby bolts.
Traditionally "U" slot sword handles were leather covered and wire wrapped to prevent breaking and hold them together if they did. Look at some photos of military sabers.

Thanks Stacey, alleviated my scientific method fears. I thought about wrapping the hand in leather beforehand, but will determine after bluing to see how all the materials will look together.

 

[Dave Hamilton]

Surely that massive tang is stronger now then if it would be ground in an undersized through tang? I would do as Stacey says and in the spirit of a zombie slayer do some cool paracord wrap with paracord bathed in thin 2k epoxy.

Yep thought about leather wrapping, will decide after bluing and assembly. I think the size of the tang and four pins should help as well alleviate and damage to to shock... from hanging on the wall lol.

 

[FredyCro]

Yep thought about leather wrapping, will decide after bluing and assembly. I think the size of the tang and four pins should help as well alleviate and damage to to shock... from hanging on the wall lol.

Well you never know when the zombie apocalipse is coming and you have to be ready as long as the zombies are not going to be plated in heavy medieval armour you should be fine I think.

 

[Dave Hamilton]

Well you never know when the zombie apocalipse is coming and you have to be ready as long as the zombies are not going to be plated in heavy medieval armour you should be fine I think.

Exactly! Evolution dude! Its funny but a zombie apocalypse was part of what went through my head starting this project out. Im practical and very much a realist, but "what if it did and i had to make a blade with items laying around" was the thought.

 

[Dave Hamilton]

Finally got to bangin in the bevels. Got one side done at 80grit, 1/3 of the way on the other side and its just too damn cold today. Will go to 120 to clean up and get closer to flat and the spine, but will have to straighten it nicely using files and sanding block. I'll tell ya, for my 6th or 7th, i feel confident as hell, but being so long as I FREEHAND it and the tang gets further away I'm getting minutely wavy. But lets focus on the word FREEHAND and not using the workrest at all.

One thing I notice with my Dayton 2x42, I feel like I wear out a belt really quick. first couple passes I can feel resistance and as I apply pressure lower to start working down the bevel to the spine, each pass onward feels less aggressive. I can even see it as I finish one side and flip to the next. Would the speed of this grinder and the 42" belt wear out that fats on one blade?

 

[FredyCro]

I used 40 grits VSM ceramic on my 2x42 and a lot of pressure for material removal. Do you dress your belts? What's the power and RPM of the grinder? Do you use old belts to put in your 45s? I wouldn't try to grind such a big blade on a 80 grit with a 2x42. I think it's normal that you would go through 2-3 belts to finish the grind with a 80 grit belt. The initial bite will wear off quickly, but it will keep grinding on but more like a 120 or so if it's ceramic, definelty slower..

 

[Dave Hamilton]

I used 40 grits VSM ceramic on my 2x42 and a lot of pressure for material removal. Do you dress your belts? What's the power and RPM of the grinder? Do you use old belts to put in your 45s? I wouldn't try to grind such a big blade on a 80 grit with a 2x42. I think it's normal that you would go through 2-3 belts to finish the grind with a 80 grit belt. The initial bite will wear off quickly, but it will keep grinding on but more like a 120 or so if it's ceramic, definelty slower..

Regarding power/rpm I know its in the 3000s, very fast. I use an old belt always to knock down the 45 degree. I will look for something lower than 80 then to start with. 2-3 belts does make sense, so with a 2x72 im sure id get better belt life with a VFD????

 

[FredyCro]

Regarding power/rpm I know its in the 3000s, very fast. I use an old belt always to knock down the 45 degree. I will look for something lower than 80 then to start with. 2-3 belts does make sense, so with a 2x72 im sure id get better belt life with a VFD????

Well, the belt is almost twice as long so the its life is twice as long. But with ceramics its more about constant pressure and breaking the ceramic down to fresh grit. Applying that kind of pressure will almost surely stall a small motor (for example my 500w Metabo). A 2.2 kw motor will wink it off. If you are using ceramic belts try dressing it with hard pressure and a piece of small thickness hardened steel (push in the belt as hard as your grinder will allow) or a steel brush or a piece of a used lower grit belt with a hard backing. AO belts were almost useless on hardened steel for me on the 2x42, you can clean them out with a brush or a dedicated rubber cleaner (try using a hard rubber shoe sole as well) but they will wear out quickly (for me one 60 grit AO belt per one kitchen blade for clean up). It will still grind, but produces more heat and takes material of slowly. Try 40 grit zyrconium if you can get it, also 120.