Short Sword Scrap Fun - Advice

Distal taper first, always otherwise you are fighting the bevel as you move towards the tip. Remove all this metal first and you will have a much more enjoyable day. That's what it's about isn't it? :)
 
Richard338 said:
It helps (like Nick Wheeler suggests in his YouTube on hand sanding) to switch directions and look again for scratches from the lower grit.
I also like to take a break and then study at different angles under a different light.
As you discovered a close-up photo is a ruthless assessment.
One thing that speeds things up if you come off the grinder at a low grit, is to use EDM stones before switching to paper.
The 120 grit stones almost work like erasers for 60 grit scratches...
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Close ups are ruthless, but i put the extra time in and am happy I did. When I etch it I will feel more proud of my work, this I know. Will look into the stones, but am more excited to get into trizec belts for the surface finish when I get my 2x72. Like a god damn kid waiting for Christmas!
 
Fred.Rowe said:
Distal taper first, always otherwise you are fighting the bevel as you move towards the tip. Remove all this metal first and you will have a much more enjoyable day. That's what it's about isn't it? :)
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My days are enjoyable making whatever i want! That's the direction I'm taking my life! My next two bowies I'll introduce a distal taper and will follow your advice. I decided to jump right into the bevels on this one, almost ready for heat treat, just going to shape the handle.
 
Getting ready to finally ship out for heat treat. Im planning on a new, more true, wakizashi build that I'll design out. I've been told by an ABS that 01 is kinda wierd for a longer blade. Can anyone recommend some good steels for short and full length swords? Looking for options that are user friendly. I think I've read some of the CVM and higher quality steels aren't as easy on the grinder and for hand sanding. I do not know too much and have gotten a little lost researching for blades that are longer.
 
I'll check out 3V. 80CRV2 we know is a popular choice for many applications. Im only familiar with 01 and 1084 with the few knives I've made.
 
Dave Hamilton said:
Getting ready to finally ship out for heat treat. Im planning on a new, more true, wakizashi build that I'll design out. I've been told by an ABS that 01 is kinda wierd for a longer blade. Can anyone recommend some good steels for short and full length swords? Looking for options that are user friendly. I think I've read some of the CVM and higher quality steels aren't as easy on the grinder and for hand sanding. I do not know too much and have gotten a little lost researching for blades that are longer.
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5160 ?
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
Rigidity is a factor of geometry, not steel type.
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Of course Stacey. I'll rephrase: ive seen to many vids of people turning 5160 blades into u shapes and it freaks me out :)

Seriously, should one expect a lot of movement with 5160 spring steel for a sword of any length?

I'm waiting to get some word on 80crv2 and w2 for two builds. Will be ordering 1095 and 1084 for my next knives.
 
I will advise you that jumping from steel to steel teaches you little. Picking a steel and learning how to get it's fullest potential is much smarter. If you are going to make swords, 1080, 1084, 1075, 5160, all are good sword steels. 80CrV2 would probably be good, too. W2 and 1095 take more skill, and have more heartaches/failures, at sword lengths.
Pick the one you can get in the sizes you need and stay with that for about 10 swords. It is wise to buy a large batch of steel bars with an assay cert and use it for all your swords while learning. I have known people who bought a bunch of 48" bars of steel and cut one into 6" pieces so they could zero in the HT it perfectly before making a blade out of the rest of the batch.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
I will advise you that jumping from steel to steel teaches you little. Picking a steel and learning how to get it's fullest potential is much smarter. If you are going to make swords, 1080, 1084, 1075, 5160, all are good sword steels. 80CrV2 would probably be good, too. W2 and 1095 take more skill, and have more heartaches/failures, at sword lengths.
Pick the one you can get in the sizes you need and stay with that for about 10 swords. It is wise to buy a large batch of steel bars with an assay cert and use it for all your swords while learning. I have known people who bought a bunch of 48" bars of steel and cut one into 6" pieces so they could zero in the HT it perfectly before making a blade out of the rest of the batch.
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Thanks again Stacy. Sent an email for more in depth discussion.
 
Got it.

For those reading this thread, I want to expand on my steel choice statement. You regularly read or see on You-tube that X steel will bend easily and Y steel will break easily, etc. This is 99% false. Most all knife steels can be made to bend, or made to break. It is all in the HT and geometry of the blade. For a sword, simple streels are a good choice ... especially while you are learning sword making. A sword is not a long knife. It has different geometry and usually a different HT. The biggest error I see in people who make knives making their first sword is they either make the blade too thick, or too hard.
Too thick:
A sword .375" thick surely will not bend or beak easily. But, it is a club with an edge on it and close to unusable as a sword. Tapers, bevels, geometry, and reasonable thickness will make a lighter sword that has sufficient strength.
Too Hard:
A sword isn't a fillet knife, or a skinner, or a chef's knife. It is a weapon, and has very different parameters than user knives. A sword doesn't need to be Rc62 .. and doesn't really want to be that hard. Traditional swords were in the low to mid Rc50's. Rc 58 is more than hard enough for most swords. Proper HT procedures and tempering to get maximum toughness is far more important. If you are just going to get the sword "red hot" in a forge and stick it in some oil, you are going to have issues. It takes a good bit of practice to properly HT and temper a sword.
Just some steel comparison info - 1084 properly hardened and tempered at 500° is Rc59/60. Do it at 600° and it will be Rc58. 80CrV2 will be Rc58 at 250° temper (get past 300° and it will drop below Rc55). For a sword, the 1084 will be a much better choice if for no other reason than the much flatter tempering curve (much more room for error and deviation along the blade).

You will have failures and successes. Figure out why some failed and some succeeded and you will learn from those swords. Jumping from steel to steel and style to style will not teach you as well as picking one steel and one basic style ... and learning to make that as perfect as possible.

Now, as to why use a simple steel over a higher alloy - The HT is simpler. 1075/1080/1084 are all simple eutectoid steels. They have the simplest HT and do not require a soak time. They tolerate a range of austenitizing temps well, and harden quite well in most any faster oil. They can also be water quenched if you are learning yaki-ire. They produce quite nice hamons.

Final comments:
We all love to watch FIF, but swords are not meant to smack whiskey barrels, tree trunks, or horse skulls.
Swords are not machetes. They are not intended to lop off tree branches and smack against things like tree trunks. Test them on things similar to what they are made to cut - firm flesh. Roll up some old carpet or newspapers, stuff a gunny sack with hay or grass, grow a bunch of melons and pumpkins, fill gallon jugs with water and screw the caps on, etc.

Swords come in many sizes, but the vast amount of user swords were fairly short. A wakizashi with a 16" to 18" blade will be more fun to make and use than a katana with a 36" blade. A European/Scottish short sword with an 18-20" blade will be more fun and easier to make and HT than a Claymore or Crusader's sword.

 
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Does anyone use stainless for swords? I understand it would likely have to be stock removal and probably no hamon. Just curious.
 
Yes, I have heard of that incident. I was thinking maybe aebl could work on shorter swords and machetes since it has such a fine grain structure, tempered down to 59-60. It is available in thicker pieces now too. Something like a glorified chopper or a hybrid machete with a sword blade shape. I am a long way from having the skill to try, but I do like to dream, lol.
 
2021-03-31_09-27-19 by Dave Hamilton, on Flickr

Well, finally got it sent out and back from heat treat. Interesting, never thought of a recurve wakizashi...

Might as well work with it and finish it up. Had it blasted while at Peter's Heat Treat to avoid some sanding on areas I just left rough, like all the flats. Going to FC etch it and finish it finally. One thing for the topic, I've looked around for ideas on whether I should etch it fully bead blasted then rub it with steel wool or sand out the bevels to 400 and etch from there. Any thoughts from the experienced on this? maybe people have pics of both ways I mentioned?
 
Looking fine, I guess sanding would be a lot of work and don't know how FC is going to work on a blasted surface. I would cold blue it and oil it and call it a day :)
 
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