Should Chris Reeve Knives should team up with Zero Tolerance?

[Ironbut]

I have some Emerson & Hinderer ZT collaborations & like them all. In fact, I think the fit/finish/components on my Emerson/ZT 0620 is a better knife than the Emerson I have, but that's just my opinion.

I have two CRKs & I wouldn't really want anything cha..........wait!........what?......did somebody mention M390? Yeah, I'd go for that, but let the design alone.

 

[Hackenslash]

Although this collaboration might seem interesting, I think its ship has sailed. I like CRK to keep doing what they do best; make a knife in a classic, timeless style that’s put together better than most others in its class. If CRK partnered with ZT to make the “Flipbenza” it would bring a knife to a market already flooded with too many similar knives. How often do we lament about the scads of plain-ass titanium frame lock flippers that invade like a horde of shambling zombies? The “Flipbenza” would arrive a few years too late and already bested by cheaper, import options. A simple, gray TI frame lock flipper has been done ad nauseam, and done quite well.

We can see the pressure on ZT to make flashy, eye-catching designs and the same fate would probably be forced on a CRK/ZT collab to gain any market share. Imagine a “Flipbenza” on caged bearings, sculpted TI handles and a high-flat grind, two tone harpoon blade, and brightly anodized colors? I just described any number of WE Knives, btw. I don’t think I ever want to see that knife with a “made in Idaho” stamp. Wait…the collab couldn’t even bear that stamp! A CRK made in Oregon?!? Blasphemy!

I like CRKs being a bit anachronistic. I’m old and it gives me a sense of continuity in a world that seems to change too quickly! Don’t make me find my whiskey bottle before noon.

 

[Officer's Match]

It would have Zero Appeal to me. I don't see CRK designs as their primary appeal - it is their manufacture. I wouldn't be at all interested in a CRK design outsourced. I'm not knocking ZT, but their mass produced methods done on a Sebenza or Inkosi would not interest me in the slightest, regardless of price drop.

 

[BMCGear]

Yeah, I'd buy one but unfortunately I don't ever see that collab happening. Interesting topic though.

Exactly! If we only talked about what could be this place would get boring.

I would actually prefer a washer based flipper, like a Shiro Hati...

Flips just fine, smooth as silk, and negates the "bearing doesn't make for a hard user" arguement...

This is an area that I'd be fine with as well. But because it's ZT I figured it would be a bearing flipper since they do that so well.

 

[BMCGear]

Although this collaboration might seem interesting, I think its ship has sailed. I like CRK to keep doing what they do best; make a knife in a classic, timeless style that’s put together better than most others in its class. If CRK partnered with ZT to make the “Flipbenza” it would bring a knife to a market already flooded with too many similar knives. How often do we lament about the scads of plain-ass titanium frame lock flippers that invade like a horde of shambling zombies? The “Flipbenza” would arrive a few years too late and already bested by cheaper, import options. A simple, gray TI frame lock flipper has been done ad nauseam, and done quite well.

We can see the pressure on ZT to make flashy, eye-catching designs and the same fate would probably be forced on a CRK/ZT collab to gain any market share. Imagine a “Flipbenza” on caged bearings, sculpted TI handles and a high-flat grind, two tone harpoon blade, and brightly anodized colors? I just described any number of WE Knives, btw. I don’t think I ever want to see that knife with a “made in Idaho” stamp. Wait…the collab couldn’t even bear that stamp! A CRK made in Oregon?!? Blasphemy!

I like CRKs being a bit anachronistic. I’m old and it gives me a sense of continuity in a world that seems to change too quickly! Don’t make me find my whiskey bottle before noon.

I hear you friend. Just a fun idea; now pour me a glass of that whiskey you've been sitting on.

 

[Gideons]

If it gets ZT back to its roots of being a practical hard use tool and not overly artsy... I'm all for it.

 

[NJBillK]

This is an area that I'd be fine with as well. But because it's ZT I figured it would be a bearing flipper since they do that so well.

While I do agree that ZT has their bearings dialed in, I would also have to say that CRK is fairly decent at washers.

 

[NJBillK]

If it gets ZT back to its roots of being a practical hard use tool and not overly artsy... I'm all for it.

It's hard to get more utilitarian than a Large 21 or 25 sebenza. High tolerances or not, they are not known for extravagance in the looks department.

Beauty in simplicity, I would agree. Some Japanese people might say that the Sebenza is an example of Shibui.

 

[BD_01]

I like CRKs being a bit anachronistic. I’m old and it gives me a sense of continuity in a world that seems to change too quickly!

I agree. I get a feel of old world craftsmanship and utility with my CRK’s. They are timeless in a sense, but by the same token I’m not sure the appeal will be marketable forever.

If CRK doesn't evolve in some form or fashion they'll go the way of the dinosaur.

I agree. In the ling run they will need some new models to stay relevant. It needent be a rapid departure from the brand identity. Something like a Schwarma-ish front flipper would be right in CRK’s wheel house.

All that being said, I’m presently saving pennies (and a lot of them) for a large Inkosi.

 

[shqxk]

The reason why CRK are in their own league because they won't go with the flow like most others company... There are too many collaboration, super steel, flipper etc. around already.

 

[Peter Hartwig]

CRK has done some collaborations other than the CRKT disaster, but they prefer to be the manufacturer. Thus have control of the quality of such collaborations.
Al Mar, Bill Harsey, Ti Lock(Grant &Gavin Hawk) are a few I know of.
I don't know Tim, but Chris was an innovator and wasn't going to make something that was already out there, just to make it. If he could improve on it, that might interest him.

 

[vanadium]

a company that is catching up with them daily in manufacturing quality

ZT is great, but it's a mess of loctite, blades that arrive off-center, hardware that requires fidgety reassembly to get the action right, etc. It's nowhere in the same league.

This would be a way for them to flex their creative muscles without sacrificing their own brand. It's a way to stay relevant without sacrificing their current business model.

Their brand is defined by uniquely high manufacturing quality. Their business model is manufacturing and selling knives at that quality level. Can you even think of a way for them to more definitively sacrifice their brand or business model, than to partner with an outside manufacturer?

 

[BMCGear]

ZT is great, but it's a mess of loctite, blades that arrive off-center, hardware that requires fidgety reassembly to get the action right, etc. It's nowhere in the same league.

In my small sample size, I haven't experienced this. I'm shocked at how much blade I'm getting for the money. And not to knock CRK but they've had some issues recently with QC. Mostly with some grinding and edges. Also, CRK does use loctite now on their non bushing knives. My inkosi came with a nice supply of it on the pivot and in the box for later use.

Their brand is defined by uniquely high manufacturing quality. Their business model is manufacturing and selling knives at that quality level. Can you even think of a way for them to more definitively sacrifice their brand or business model, than to partner with an outside manufacturer? It might have made sense when the RIL design was an exclusive innovation, but that's over.

I don't see it that way at all because they won't be producing the knife. It would be their designed executed by ZT. The people who want the diminishing returns of CRK's fit and finish would still purchase a CRK. The people who really love the designs that Chris puts out but a). don't need the super tight tolerances b). want a different blade steel c). don't have the budget for a CRK d). all of the above would buy one. Hinderer is still in business and he has collabs with several makers. The argument is that people don't buy Hinderer for fit and finish and I'll agree to that but some people don't buy Hinderer because they see it as a diminishing return once you get over a certain price point. Reeve is no different and they would continue their uber tight tolerances while putting out a collab that would never be advertised as a CRK but a design effort with another company.

Overall this is just a fun idea/thread. Nothing to take too seriously. And if it did happen I can guarantee there would be several threads about it.

 

[vanadium]

I was just doing the thought experiment:

• What if I saw an announcement that CRK's new knife was being manufactured by Millit?

The venerable Millit being arguably the one company in the world that could be guaranteed to do a faithful job at producing a CRK knife.

It's instructive to imagine putting yourself in the situation, and observing how you feel.

 

[BMCGear]

I was just doing the thought experiment:

• What if I saw an announcement that CRK's new knife was being manufactured by Millit?

The venerable Millit being arguably the one company in the world that could be guaranteed to do a faithful job at producing a CRK knife.

It's instructive to imagine putting yourself in the situation, and observing how you feel.

And the result of your exercise?

 

[vanadium]

I think a good analogy is to J.A.Henckels. They were never design geniuses, they just made the best kitchen knives in Germany. Then they outsourced much of their production to companies that were supposedly catching up to them in every way. The result today is that no serious knife person takes Henckels seriously, because the manufacturing heritage is what really mattered. Nobody cares where Global Knives are made, for example, because it's foremost a design brand — but Henckels unintentionally buried its legacy in a shallow grave, and anybody who really cares for a quintessential Solingen kitchen knife buys Wüsthof-Trident instead, because they represent the thing that Henckels used to represent, that being Solingen quality. Henckels is now the biggest instead of the best, with lots of 'innovative' and 'creative' products, but nothing left of their old identity, and all their old customers gone.

And the result of your exercise?

I think I'd be wondering why a company known primarily for its manufacturing, whose only designer retired years ago, wasn't making its own knives. I think I'd be in mourning. I think the knife could be amazing, but I might not buy it out of sheer revulsion. If you can't guess, I'm also a Wüsthof customer.

But, I propose the thought experiment for others to do.

 

[BMCGear]

I think a good analogy is J.A.Henckels. They were never design geniuses, they were just the Giant of Solingen. Then they outsourced much of their production to companies that were catching up to them in every way. The result is that nobody takes Henckels seriously any more, because the manufacturing is what mattered. Nobody cares where Global Knives are made, because it's foremost a design brand — but Henckels dug its own grave, and anybody who really cares buys Wüsthof-Trident instead, because they represent the thing that Henckels used to represent, that being Solingen quality. Henckels is now the biggest instead of the best.

Henckels diluted themselves, yes but this would only happen if CRK never came out with anything new or updated their designs but instead had several other makers make them simultaneously. I don't care for German style kitchen knives though; I like Japanese.

I think I'd be wondering why a company known primarily for its manufacturing, whose only designer retired years ago, wasn't making its own knives. I think I'd be in mourning. I think the knife could be amazing, but I might not buy it out of sheer revulsion.

But, I propose the thought experiment for others to do.

Interesting. With the only designer retired their may be cause to mourn already? Time will tell.

And before starting the thread I pretty much did that exercise. But I have a bias; after owning several CRK's I'd like a Reeve design without the Reeve price and I'd be fine losing a bit of manufacturing quality to get that from a reputable maker.

 

[BMCGear]

So maybe as some others have stated maybe CRK doesn't need to team up with CRK but Chris Reeve himself could do a collab. He is after all "semi-retired."

I'd be just as happy as that.

 

[Steely_Gunz]

I love ZTs. I carry one daily. They tend to multiple in my nightstand drawer. That said, I'm not sure I would be down for a CRK collaboration. Not because ZT won't do a great job. It's just that CRK are a staple of what the knife community thinks of when it comes to tight tolerance fit and finish. It's the little details that make them so desirable. I know I have tried to save up for one for years but always blow my money before I take the plunge. Selfishly, I want the real-deal before I get tempted by a not-the-same collaboration

 

[Lapedog]

While I do agree that ZT has their bearings dialed in, I would also have to say that CRK is fairly decent at washers.

ZT’s 0620 is actually very smooth on washers. On mine I can adjust the pivot so there is no blade play but the blade still drops shut. I am sure that the heavier blade plays part of it.

My Sebenzas I found were very smooth but the blade wasn’t very “free” in its action. Upon breaking in they became much more free in their action. My small 21 is now one of the free-est washer knives I own.

The large inkosi I own came freer out of the box but the detent is not good for flicking open. Now that my small 21 is well broken in it flicks great.