Should Sellers Be Able to Charge Extra for Insurance?

safetyman

safetyman

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With the recent revamping of the rules, Spark has made is a BladeForums rule (rule 2.1.4 to be exact) to ship with insurance unless buyer specifies otherwise. See post below:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/announcement.php?f=751&a=98

Since shipping with insurance is now the seller's responsibility per the rule, wouldn't charging extra for insurance (i.e. "The knife costs $100, but insurance is extra." or "The price of the knife is $75 but include $5 for insurance.") be against the rules? It seems the seller should include the cost of shipping, insurance, delivery confirmation and other shipping services in the asking price instead of treating these shipping costs as add-on costs.

I understand the topic of shipping without insurance has been discussed many times before, but I don't think the discussion of whether or not it's against the rules has been brought up. What say you guys?
 
The cost of shipping is not always included in the price. Depending on where the buyer is, what carrier they want used, and what delivery options they want, the cost of shipping varies greatly. The rule doesn't say insurance has to be provided for free, so it is up to the buyer & seller to determine who pays for it. A lot of online shops don't even offer it in their drop down lists.
 
Since when did buying and selling become so nitpicky? If you don't like the terms of the deal be you buyer or seller then don't do the deal and move on. Jeeeez grow up already, does your momma still hold your hand when you cross the street?
 
KK66, he asked a valid question. He's not being nitpicky OR juvenile--the OWNER of this forum has clearly laid out new rules of buying and selling. Read the outline.

Whether you abide by them or not is YOUR perogative, but he's clearly playing by the rules. :thumbup:

My take: No different than paying extra for shipping, or PayPal fees, if you want to include the cost of insurance in your selling price or have it as an extra, it is HIGHLY recommended to the seller, in case of a problem.

And, as KK66 pointed out, completely up to the buyer whether he wants to go the distance.

All my shipments are covered by insurance on my end. That's my perogative in selling.

Coop
 
It's always been my S.O.P. to include any add on costs such as shipping, insurance, delivery conf. etc. in the asking price. It just makes sense to do so. Anybody who ships or buys an expensive (and that term is used broadly as opinions vary on this subject) without insurance is foolish. Once again, it's nitpicky. Just add the costs into the asking price. It ain't rocket science.........

Edited too add: If a person agrees to a purchase without confirming that said item will be insured shame on them.
 
KnifeKnut66 said:
Since when did buying and selling become so nitpicky? If you don't like the terms of the deal be you buyer or seller then don't do the deal and move on. Jeeeez grow up already, does your momma still hold your hand when you cross the street?
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Uh, did you read my original post? I'm not ranting about the extra fees, I was asking whether it's against the rules or not. I don't need my momma's hand to cross the street, I can do that perfectly fine on my own.

KnifeKnut66 said:
It's always been my S.O.P. to include any add on costs such as shipping, insurance, delivery conf. etc. in the asking price. It just makes sense to do so. Anybody who ships or buys an expensive (and that term is used broadly as opinions vary on this subject) without insurance is foolish. Once again, it's nitpicky. Just add the costs into the asking price. It ain't rocket science.........

Edited too add: If a person agrees to a purchase without confirming that said item will be insured shame on them.
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That's the point of my question. It is now a BladeForums rule to ship with insurance. A knife should be shipped with insurance unless the buyer specifies otherwise. The buyer shouldn't have to confirm that a knife will be shipped insured because it's against the rules if it's not.
 
hardheart said:
The cost of shipping is not always included in the price. Depending on where the buyer is, what carrier they want used, and what delivery options they want, the cost of shipping varies greatly. The rule doesn't say insurance has to be provided for free, so it is up to the buyer & seller to determine who pays for it. A lot of online shops don't even offer it in their drop down lists.
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Point taken. I overlooked the fact that insurance costs can vary based on delivery destinations.
 
Sellers - Be specific with all details of payment and delivery. Ship promptly, ship with insurance unless the buyer specifies otherwise.
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Good idea for both sides to confirm those details: who will pay for what. But the rules are telling you that the seller is responsible for insurance. HOW he provides it is up to him:

Buy it from the carrier, or
Buy it from an insurance agent, or
Self -insure.

Just don't tell the buyer when the package doesn't arrive that he didn't pay for insurance so he's out of luck. The seller is responsible for getting the package to the buyer or refunding his money. Insurance insures the seller, not the buyer.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Good idea for both sides to confirm those details: who will pay for what. But the rules are telling you that the seller is responsible for insurance. HOW he provides it is up to him:

Buy it from the carrier, or
Buy it from an insurance agent, or
Self -insure.

Just don't tell the buyer when the package doesn't arrive that he didn't pay for insurance so he's out of luck. The seller is responsible for getting the package to the buyer or refunding his money. Insurance insures the seller, not the buyer.
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I would be curious to know what Bladeforums' stand is on things that really aren't insurable except at exorbitant rates, like international shipping. Or for things beyond the sellers control, like Customs confiscating a folder because they call it a 'gravity knife'?
 
Insurance insures the person sending the item. If the sender chooses not to insure something because the receiver didn't want to pay extra, then it is the sender that is accepting the risk by default. But whatever the parties agree to, is the agreement that they must honor.
 
elkins45 said:
I would be curious to know what Bladeforums' stand is on things that really aren't insurable except at exorbitant rates, like international shipping. Or for things beyond the sellers control, like Customs confiscating a folder because they call it a 'gravity knife'?
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Some sellers will not ship internationally because if this very thing. It is your call.

The bottom line is that the deal isn't done unless ALL parties are satisfied. Insure your shipments. The seller is responsible for the item until it is in the hands of the buyer. It doesn't matter if Customs confiscates the knife, it gets delivered to the wrong address, or if it is stolen enroute. The seller is ultimately responsible. Pay the insurance, and include it in the selling price.
 
Mike G said:
Some sellers will not ship internationally because if this very thing. It is your call.

The bottom line is that the deal isn't done unless ALL parties are satisfied. Insure your shipments. The seller is responsible for the item until it is in the hands of the buyer. It doesn't matter if Customs confiscates the knife, it gets delivered to the wrong address, or if it is stolen enroute. The seller is ultimately responsible. Pay the insurance, and include it in the selling price.
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But there IS no insurance for this. It is an occurrence that cannot be insured against. In this instance I would argue that it is the responsibility of the buyer not to attempt to purchase an item that cannot be legally imported. I'm going through this with a buyer at this very moment because I made the mistake of violating my own rule about shipping outside the USA. He bought an Emerson from me and Customs is sitting on it at the moment. I had no idea his Customs would rule a simple liner lock knife as being contraband. I will do everything in my power to make sure he either gets the knife or a refund providing Customs ships it back to me, but if they should decide to destroy it I don't feel that was within my control.
 
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elkins45 said:
But there IS no insurance for this. It is an occurrence that cannot be insured against. In this instance I would argue that it is the responsibility of the buyer not to attempt to purchase an item that cannot be legally imported. I'm going through this with a buyer at this very moment because I made the mistake of violating my own rule about shipping outside the USA. He bought an Emerson from me and Customs is sitting on it at the moment. I had no idea his Customs would rule a simple liner lock knife as being contraband. I will do everything in my power to make sure he either gets the knife or a refund providing Customs ships it back to me, but if they should decide to destroy it I don't feel that was within my control.
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You're absolutely correct that there is no insurance for Customs. However, if you ship a knife insured and Customs seizes the package, will the carrier (USPS, UPS, FedEx, etc.) offer reimbursement because you insured it? Common sense tells me that the carrier won't offer reimbursement because they were not at fault for the seizure of the package...
 
As long as the terms are spelled out clearly up front it shouldn't matter whether the insurance is included in the one price takes all or the item is listed as X$ + Y$ shipping and Z$ insurance = Total sale price. The buyer can then accept the clearly spelled out terms or find someone else to buy from.

Personally I prefer to know exactly what I am paying for each component of the total sales price.
 
Every item I've sold on this forum, or others, I include insurance and other costs in the price I am asking. I also state that I am including those charges in that price. I have a bottom-dollar price...no$XXX + $qqq in shipping fees. For a transaction to happen, the two minds have to meet. If they don't...no deal. So everyone should know on the front end what the terms are and agree or disagree to them.
 
Buyers responsibility to get funds to seller.
Sellers responsibility to get product to buyer.
I don't buy into the "well you didn't specify for me to add insurance, so your SOL." If the product didn't get there, it should always be on the seller.
 
Chief Engineer said:
Buyers responsibility to get funds to seller.
Sellers responsibility to get product to buyer.
I don't buy into the "well you didn't specify for me to add insurance, so your SOL." If the product didn't get there, it should always be on the seller.
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As it should be.
Really should not be hard to understand at all.

When I purchase something, it is the responsibility of the seller to get it to me.

If I sell something it is my responsibility to get it to the person buying it. (Or delivered to the address that the buyer gave me.)
 
I can see from this thread that all of my future sales will be limited to the CONUS......

The idea that confiscation by Customs is my responsibility doesn't/won't fly with me so no more shipping out of the country. :)
 
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