Shouldn't Knifes Be Cheap?

I'm tellin you guys look at those NAVY knives made in China by the company that produces the Byrd line. I bought 3 compression locks and that one liner lock. They are tight, they don't fail my spine whach test at all when WHACKED at the tip of the blade and there is 0 blade wiggle. As for a liner lock disengaging, I let my wife use an MOD Tempest when they first came out. I loved that knife. She was using it to cut some gasket material around the refrigerator door. Hit the top of the knife on the bottom of the door and it released the liner and almost closed on her finger. It didn't close all the way but it was close. MOD at the time replaced the knife no questions asked and the second knife with stood my spine whack testing with aplomb. So even a high dollar knife can not work at times I guess is my point. Just cause it is cheap or inexpensive doesn't make it not a good product, witness those NAVY knives.

As for fixed blades, last year we go to the Pennsic Wars cause my ol'lady does that type of re-enacting. So off ebay I win a bowie that looks very much like a CS Laredo. Only the copy is in s.s. Ok I get the knife and stamped on the other side is BUD K. I am thinking crap. Total with shipping was like 20 bucks. Well we go down there for a week and while there I buy a real nice Leuku from Ragnar. It is about 90 bucks. Long story short back at the camp I figure to split some of the wood we bought from folks that sell it to saps like me when down there for this event. Bottom line the BUD K bowie which is a honker of a bowie and very well made split the wood very well. The Leuku not so much. It would wedge into the wood but not split it, even using a baton to try to get it through. The bowie being a full flat grind but not really as sharp as the Leuku would split it all day long with a couple of good wallops. Ok done, I rest my case. keepem sharp
 
My 0.02...

More expensive knives, in general (save for the artistic pieces) do last significantly longer, if you maintain them sharp.
Unfortunately, as things are today you mostly get mediocre steel with mediocre HT for the price ranges discussed.
With custom knives from the high end steel, price goes into steel, HT, workmanship.

So, if I take 440A class steel knife and try to keep it as sharp as another, let's say CPM S110V or ZDP-189 knife, both with best HT for the comparison... Does anyone believe 440A will keep up? Of course no, it'll get dull much faster, and if I keep sharpening it to keep the same sharpness levels as with high end steels, that knife will be gone very fast.
Easy to sharpen is exactly the same as easy to remove a lot of metal.

The only time 440A will last or outlast high end steel is if you keep it dull.

That's just the case when cheaper knife can actually do the job...
I have about 40 kitchen knives for now. Bunch of them have around 10 deg. edge per side, some have 5-7 deg per side.

Few month ago I have conducted mini experiment with Henckel chef's knife, sharpened it to 10 per side. After a single carrot which was cut on the end grain wood board(i.e. board isn't to blame) I got a few nice rolls on the edge. Compare that to those Aogami or ZDP knives that got for weeks (my use) with just steeling or stropping, with the same 10 deg or even thinner edges. I gave up, put 20 per side secondary bevel and that was it for that time.

I'm really curious myself what will happen to the "budget" knife if I try to do the same stuff as with better knives. I've set aside Calphalon utility knife for the test, which I'll sharpen to 15deg per side, and try to keep it as sharp as my normal use kitchen knives and I think in less than a year I'll have 50% of the blade gone.
I keep postponing the test, because it'll be long running test and I want to document the whole thing in god details, including micrographs, materials cut, sharpening log, etc. Considering that my knife steel chart project takes most of my free time, I wont'handle that now, but I'll definitely proceed sometime this year, or so I hope.

P.S. Other than that, just pure pleasure of using a good knife :) It's priceless.
 
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greater said:
While you are right about moras being a great value it also depends on what use they are going to be put to. That in itself may require a more expensive knife. So the choice of whether to buy a mora or mora like knife is not exactly as clear as night and day.

That applies to any tool - but how many people that are currently using cheap junk are chopping and batoning with their knives? A Mora certainly wont suit every users requirements - but someone that is slicing up cardboard all day long with a cheap knife could do pretty well on a carbon steel Mora.
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greater said:
Although quality usually cost more money it is not always the case and the point I am trying to make is the average worker can benefit from having a basic education on what makes a good knife for the type of work they want to do. Low price does not always mean a good buy, and in most cases, not all however, it isn't .

So no it is not always possible to do well with lower priced or cheaply made products.
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This I have to agree with - I would say that well over 90% of cheap knives are horrible junk. That is precisely why people that need good knives need educating about the few brands that really do offer great value for the low price (brands like Mora and Opinel).


SuzukiGS750EZ said:
I believe that yes, a 25$ knife will work. Will it be reliable
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The answer would be no in many cases and yes in some. I doubt that my RAT-1 would fail in normal use - it is built pretty strong, has good fit & finish and uses a reasonable stainless steel for the blade. The Spyderco Tenacious isn't much dearer and I doubt that would be unreliable either.
 
a 25$ knife in walmart is mostly gerber and some bucks. But anyways, i didnt mean to be politically correct was just trying to make a point lol
 
Also keep in mind , while we do sometimes dwell on the tool itself , a $100 milsurp rifle in the hands of someone with solid marksmanship skills is more likely to have better results than a tuned GAP built 308 in the hands of someone who has no marksmanship skills.

As my dad always told me :
1. Don't ever let your equipment hold you back
2. Regardless of the equipment , learn to use it properly and to the best of your ability
3. Buy quality , it doesn't cost , it pays.

As to the last one , each of us may have a different idea of just what quality is. I guess what it comes down to is : If you are happy with good enough , then that is all you need.
After years of using , I still enjoy using something as in-expensive as a Case Sodbuster , enjoy using my Queen lockback , my Strider folders , my Blackwood , Rinaldi , Simonich or |ZERO| Knives fixed blades.....

I find it much easier to pick the tool for the job , than the job for the tool. I buy out of necessity , I am a knife user junkie... and ain't afraid to admit it :)
 
SuzukiGS750EZ said:
a 25$ knife in walmart is mostly gerber and some bucks. But anyways, i didnt mean to be politically correct was just trying to make a point lol
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I know what you are saying - many people would walk into a store, see a knife for $25 and figure that it must be a good knife because it costs so much. No hunting around for a good deal, no research - they end up with a blunt knife that would be lucky to be worth $5.

But with careful shopping you can buy quality at a cheap price, you just need to avoid the junk at cheap prices.
 
udtjim said:
You are in trouble if you count on any tool at any price to bet your life on. A man who can't survive with a Mora, probably wouldn't survive with a tool truck full of Busse's.
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i'd rather die in the woods than use a Mora.

:cool:
 
I had some crap knives growing up and hunting. A buck pathfinder that broke at the handle, a buck special the tip broke and some random hardware store knives that i could never get sharp and seemed like the locking mechanism broke on at least half of them. They were fake spydercos.

Then a few years ago I realized I should save my pennies and buy one and buy the right one. I did my research and ended up with a Bark River Woodland. For 90$ I think its the perfect balance of price and function. I havent needed another knife since. However it didnt stop me from getting a Tenacious(great) too. And a Buck trapper (crap).
 
Joshua J. said:
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Is that a USC? I didn't know anyone actually bought those! How do you like it?
 
Knives should be affordable.
And indeed many are.
It's the want for better made knives that has propelled the market to what ordinary non-knife people would consider insane prices.
That is to say, that there is a segment of people out there who are willing to pay what would otherwise be considered an unjustifiable amount of cash for (by all intends and purpose) a knife...
Hat's off to the brillant knife collectors and steel snobs who have made this all possible!
Where there is money, anything is possible.
 
The entertaining thing about this thread is that pretty much everyone made the same basic point:

It's all what you're willing to pay for.

Some people want the Timex, some the Rolex. Some people will buy the new BMW, while others drive the used Toyota. It's the same with knives. Personnally, I have a '98 Nissan, a $25 Timex, and carry a $495 David Mozier Custom folder. :D I'm happy. As long as you're happy as well, buy whatever you want.
 
Sometimes people cheat themselves by spending a lot of money on the wrong tool or a deluxe version of the right tool (unneeded frills) because of personal appeal.

If I did lots of heavy cutting and needed a stainless folder I would be better served by, for example, a ZDP189 fully serrated edge endudura on sale than a regular VG10 endura with a plain edge at the same price or a more expensive plain edged fancy looking benchmade.

If one can learn to overlook unimportant things like looks, preferences for plain edges, and dislikes for things like blade holes and weird ergo shapes, or even a dislike for the looks of knives like moras (could that be me ?,) a high value cutting tool that makes life easier can be brought at a good price.

Of course this is highly subjective and some people for whatever reason either cannot have or must have certain things about the knives they own.
 
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greater said:
Of course this is highly subjective and some people for whatever reason either cannot have or must have certain things about the knives they own.
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If I am paying good money to own a knife then I am buying something that I like - it isn't that hard to find something good at a fair price IMO. e.g. I don't do a lot of heavy cutting and don't have to have ZDP, so I get good value out of $26 on a RAT-1 with AUS-8 and it works fine for my needs.

Also:
No way would I consider having to sharpen a ZDP serrated knife - I am not that much of a gluten for punishment! A VG10 plain blade is a dream to sharpen in comparison!
 
I hope you don't die in the woods, I enjoy your posts.:thumbup:


My last word on this is that not all cheap knives are junk, Lets hear how many people here have used a Buck 110 for 20 years or more without a hitch. Me for one. I paid 25.00 for it and got a ten dollar rebate. Available at Wally world for under 40.00. There are quite a few more out there that are far better than their price would indicate. I also have to agree 100 percent with the poster who said " there is a lot of expensive junk out there too.
 
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