Sig Sauer P320 and their disastrous response

Planterz said:
I like that the Hellcat mag holds 11.

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Hellcat Pro has 15+1. Glock 19 style.
 
not2sharp said:
The only 320 that I currently own is an Xten Comp. I have no idea if those are equally at risk of nds, or drop fires. I note, these have different slides and have only been around for a couple of years. I hope Sig eventually gets off its tail to tell where they are with the various 320 releases. Presumably they should have been making small improvements over the last 8 years. :rolleyes:


N2s
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I suspect that what will happen is that there will be a new complete fire control kit which will replace the existing unit and solve most of the problem. But as the 320 fire control unit is essentially the frame it may require some paperwork to make that happen.
My guess is that there will also be complete aftermarket lowers for the pistol which may also fix the problem.
Whatever happens Sig won't be the same company after this.
 
The Sig p320 is a piece of shit. If you own one, get rid of it. Nobody wants to win that lottery of being killed by their own gun. It’s not a problem, until it is.
 
I suspect the issue is connected to the slide disassembly process. Sig came up with a dangerous solution to avoid pulling the trigger like you would with Glock.

N2s
 
Ozmose said:
Was that the XMP trigger? If I recall correctly, that was supposed to fix a huge issue with the original trigger. They had a problem where putting the rifle on safe would actually fire it. I didn't know there were issues with the XMP as well.
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This happened to me with an older 700. Blew out my windshield from inside my pick up after hunting.
My ears rang for 2 days.
 
This is going to be a real problem for law enforcement. Imagine you are arresting a criminal, you don't dare tell them to "drop it".
 
I have a feeling that the COA Glock was yanked from shelves to fill military and police orders, where the Sig 320 is officially being taken off the market, or banned outright.
 
I see Sig are now suing the Oregon Police Academy over them refusing to train officers with the 320.
For some reason they think that alienating the very organisations they want as customers...... is a good thing?? :rolleyes:

I also noticed an official Sig youtube video in the last 48 hours all about the P320 and how brilliant it is. Desperately trying to reassure the 2A community and show the factory. The comments on the video were scathing.

Boru13 Boru13 is it ok if I post the link to that vid.........?
 
Steven65 said:
Thank you Sir.......

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I saw this. It is very little and very late. I was hoping for some basic fundamental information, such as which production series may be susceptible to which problems. That assumes that Sig has been making incremental improvements in their internal design and processes over the years. If they haven’t been doing that then they really don’t have a leg to stand on.

Since they continue to attack their customer base, it is clear that they refuse to learn. Which means the company is in desperate need of new management and should consider selling itself, while there is still something left to sell.

N2s
 
One of my favorite gun brands basically destroyed itself. I remember when I visited the factory in 2019 in Germany the following. An employee took two pistols; I can't remember the models, but they were the same model. Both steel guns, slide and frame. One pistol was made in the US and the other in Germany. He shook them together at the same time. One rattled, and one did not make a sound.

One pistol was made in the US and the other in Germany. He explained that in the US, factory tolerances were looser. They used certain parts longer to cut out the frame and slide rails and other parts of the gun, which would give a less tight fit. I never forget that moment, and it is a shame that the factory is gone. Let's hope production stops in the US and Switzerland takes over. That could be a huge improvement in restoring trust in the company. What a shame...
 
The smart move would be to offer an Sig 250 hammer Fire control system as a nominal cost upgrade for anyone who has lost confidence in their Sig 320 striker system.

N2s
 
I am not technical at all. I followed this relatively closely on the internet. The Wyoming Gun Project was able to make the gun go off when, according to SIG, it couldn't. That, combined with all the recorded incidents and the tragic death of the airman, makes SIG's reaction an absolute scandal. Many good companies that make guns, let them go bankrupt for all I care. I will never trust them again as long as they are in the US with this leadership.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSwRQjKqR2Ie2ACq9SXQdlQ
 
not2sharp said:
I saw this. It is very little and very late. I was hoping for some basic fundamental information, such as which production series may be susceptible to which problems
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I've seen various videos that go into detail on the operation of the internals. It all looks good on paper. However there have been allegations that MIM parts made in India are of varying quality. There is a simple spring that the striker block safety acts against and some people suggest that it can slip off of the striker block and not be effective. I'm not sure how this leads to uncommanded discharges. I've seen videos talking about other aspects of the mechanism that could be a problem. But there is no real evidence of what happened. I think there are smart people who could figure this out, in particular I think personnel at AMU could figure it out and they are maybe working on it right now.

I don't know what to expect the company to do but I'm sure they could do better.
 
Sphinx3000 said:
One of my favorite gun brands basically destroyed itself. I remember when I visited the factory in 2019 in Germany the following. An employee took two pistols; I can't remember the models, but they were the same model. Both steel guns, slide and frame. One pistol was made in the US and the other in Germany. He shook them together at the same time. One rattled, and one did not make a sound.

One pistol was made in the US and the other in Germany. He explained that in the US, factory tolerances were looser. They used certain parts longer to cut out the frame and slide rails and other parts of the gun, which would give a less tight fit. I never forget that moment, and it is a shame that the factory is gone. Let's hope production stops in the US and Switzerland takes over. That could be a huge improvement in restoring trust in the company. What a shame...
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At one time in my engineering career, I spent time reading up on "manufacturing ideologies". One of them is "Total Quality Management", (TQM). It was originally developed based on work done at the Bell Labs during WW II producing radio head sets for aircraft personnel. They found that if they to minimized variation and made each part as precisely as possible, they would end up with fewer rejects and a higher overall production rate.

Several of those Bell engineers, among them, W Edwards Deming, tried to promote these teachings to US manufacturing companies after WW II. The general response was, "We are the only intact manufacturing base left in the world. We can sell anything we can make. We don't care about quality." This mindset still exists in US production circles. The eternal question became not, "how good can we make it?" But rather, "How badly can we make it and have it still perform its function?"

TQM was one of the foundation stones of the Toyota Production System. Because after the US rejected TQM, Deming taught it to Japan. And they took it to heart.
 
knarfeng said:
At one time in my engineering career, I spent time reading up on "manufacturing ideologies". One of them is "Total Quality Management", (TQM). It was originally developed based on work done at the Bell Labs during WW II producing radio head sets for aircraft personnel. They found that if they to minimized variation and made each part as precisely as possible, they would end up with fewer rejects and a higher overall production rate.

Several of those Bell engineers, among them, W Edwards Deming, tried to promote these teachings to US manufacturing companies after WW II. The general response was, "We are the only intact manufacturing base left in the world. We can sell anything we can make. We don't care about quality." This mindset still exists in US production circles. The eternal question became not, "how good can we make it?" But rather, "How badly can we make it and have it still perform its function?"

TQM was one of the foundation stones of the Toyota Production System. Because after the US rejected TQM, Deming taught it to Japan. And they took it to heart.
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What a terrible business mindset and business philosophy in general. The fact that they kept on denying the problems for so long is adding insult to injury. Imagine being the family of the airman and seeing these professional liars at SIG trying to save what they can. No, I can't forgive behavior like that. I hope they go bankrupt, and the next company that gets the government contracts takes notes and learns how it is not done. If it will get that far. Perhaps Glock or Beretta?
 
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