silicon carbide stones

What color should it be? this one is two shades of gray.
 
that's SiC, you can check out the Crystolon and India stones on your linked site to see the difference in color
 
I thought it was just by the way it was eating the steel but thanks for the conformation. Hard sometimes to go by pictures on a web site, sometimes the colors don't look the same in person.

Do you know if there is something in the 4000-10,000 range in a similar abrasive. I would like to get another stone thats a little higher, even around 1000 wouldn't be bad.

Thanks for everyone's help, I got to thinking after reading the "do we obsess" thread and figured I had the technique down now its time to see if the stones from yesterday could compare to the technology of today. So far I'm impressed but its still a far cry from the quality of a diamond hone, though it is nice to have a stone again :)
 
Well, that's not all bad. Didn't it say on the package? The blister pack mine came in gave the abrasive type and grading. Maybe this is like the Spyderco medium stones, I say they are brown, others call them gray. I cannot see gray in those stones to save my soul, online or in person. I'll get a pic of my combo stones in a little while, at least side by side it's pretty clear (at least to me)
 
Didn't the packageing on your stone say if it is SiC or AlOx? I'm fairly sure most I've seen are marked on the box. Marked or not I'm also guessing that if it is black/gray it is SiC.
 
Nothing on the package but according to the product guide its Alu-oxide.
 
Does it say Crystolon , or India ?
OOPS info is from http://www.knifecenter.com/knifecenter/norton/instruct.html
Abrasives. Norton sharpening stones are available in three different abrasives- Crystolon®, India® and Arkansas- each designed to meet specific needs.

Crystolon stones are made of silicon carbide electric-furnace abrasive, gray or black in color. This fast-cutting abrasive is harder than any natural abrasive except diamond, and does an outstanding job finishing carbide tools or removing metal, when moderate tolerances are acceptable. Crystolon is the choice where speed of sharpening is most important, or as the first step in sharpening badly worn cutting edges. Available in coarse, medium and fine grits.

India stones are made of aluminum oxide electric furnace abrasive, brown or orange in color. This abrasive is preferred for producing exceptionally keen, long-lasting edges, and for high-quality steel tool work. The choice over Crystolon where close tolerances and smooth cutting edges are required. Available in coarse, medium and fine grits.

Arkansas natural abrassive stones are made of Novaculite, white to black in color. Hard Arkansas (ultra fine grit), with its very dense, close construction,
 
ECONOMY TOOL & KNIFE SHARPENER
6 x 2 x 3/4 1 5 Coarse/Fine Aluminum Oxide 07660787933 2
8 x 2 x 3/4 1 10 Coarse/Fine Aluminum Oxide 07660787934 9
8 x 2 x 1 1 10 Coarse/Fine Aluminum Oxide 61463685755 8

I have the 6x2
 
I got the SiC combo years back, picked up the other combo a while later, and this 08/09 catalog only shows the Alox combo in economy. Or maybe I'm just wrong, it has been a long time. Maybe the SiC wasn't the economy grade... but it was cheap-ish.:(
 
I don't like the feel of silicon carbide hones and the roughness of their finish. The attached chart indicates that while they cut somewhat fast, silicon carbide hones leave a rougher finish than most other types.
attachment.php
 
hardheart said:
I got the SiC combo years back, picked up the other combo a while later, and this 08/09 catalog only shows the Alox combo in economy. Or maybe I'm just wrong, it has been a long time. Maybe the SiC wasn't the economy grade... but it was cheap-ish.:(
Click to expand...
I'm certain the Norton economy stone I bought some years ago is SiC. Not only can you tell the difference by the color on the Nortons, but just the way they cut, and the way the SiC's wear. The coarse side is hardly usable ... I've read that many times they have a kind of glazing from being fired that has to be worn off, but I never got it worked down I guess, even after a good bit of scrubbing against the "cheap brick" and a Norton hockey puck SiC stone.

Edit to correct ... OK, I found the stone, and I misspoke -- the medium side, which is the one I used, is certainly SiC, but the coarse side that I never could get to cut properly has the distinct brown color of India/AO. Looking at stuff I downloaded from Norton when I bought this I'm pretty sure it's the one they sell under product #UPB-8.
 
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Now I'm confused. Isn't SiC coarser than AlOX? I'm also wondering if that list is correct. If the stone is black/gray and is cutting like a DMT xc and c I have to think it is SiC and not AlOx even though that catolog is saying it's AlOx. Very interesting
 
I just pulled mine out. It is labled Sears and not Norton. It is a 7x2x1 combo coarse/fine Silicon carbide. Color is dark gray. Pretty sure I paid around $10 about 5 years ago.
 
knifenut1013 said:
ECONOMY TOOL & KNIFE SHARPENER
6 x 2 x 3/4 1 5 Coarse/Fine Aluminum Oxide 07660787933 2
8 x 2 x 3/4 1 10 Coarse/Fine Aluminum Oxide 07660787934 9
8 x 2 x 1 1 10 Coarse/Fine Aluminum Oxide 61463685755 8

I have the 6x2
Click to expand...

I was looking at the catalog and saw a picture next to the table you quote above. The picture shows a gray stone in a blue blister pack that looks like what the Home Depot near me carries. It's labeled "87935". Looking at the bigger table, I see that Is the 6x2 Crystolon (SiC) coarse/fine stone. I'm pretty certain that's what HD near me carries.

However, I did a web search on the one you quote above, the 87933 package. To my surprise, I found a similar looking stone (grayish) in a similar package (but not the same). Here's a picture of it (click to view it larger):

http://hand-tools.hardwarestore.com/67-419-sharpening-stones/tool-and-knife-sharpening-stone-228130.aspx

So did your package have the graphics on it like the one above, showing a picture of a sharpening stone and a tool? Or was it plain blue with writing like the one shown in the catalog. Hell if you have the package, just read the number off of it and we can all be dead certain. Either way I'm surprised to see Norton AlO that's gray instead of brownish orange.

Brian.
 
Jeff Clark said:
I don't like the feel of silicon carbide hones and the roughness of their finish. The attached chart indicates that while they cut somewhat fast, silicon carbide hones leave a rougher finish than most other types.
attachment.php
Click to expand...

I can get an edge that will shave a little using only a medium SiC stone. I'll admit that it just barely shaves though. ...and yes, it is a VERY coarse feeling stone when you use it. It also seems to break off little pieces of itself which can make the surface feel really rough if the blade hits them. I sometimes sweep the stone with my fingers, or use a damp cloth.

A few months ago I was fascinated with the graph you've quoted above from Steve Bottorff. So much so that I added a 10 point scale to the X and Y axes so I could compare exactly "how much faster" or "how much sharper" each type of stone was.

I wrote Steve and showed him my addition to the graph, asking how acurate the spacing was between the various stones. He replied that he combined two graphs from Norton from two different sources and that the axes were not labeled in the originals. I took that to mean that the graph is correct in "relative terms" but it may or may not be exactly "accurate".

For example, consulting my annotated graph, I see that medium SiC is about a 5.5 in speed, and about a 2 in sharpness. Moving across the graph I see that fine diamond is also about a 5.5 in speed, but a 7 in sharpness! This implies that fine diamond produces an edge that is more than 3 times as sharp as medium SiC. That seems incredible to me, but I don't have any diamond stones to compare with, so I can't say how accurate that is. Would anyone here who's used both say that seems accurate to them?

If there's any interest I can post my additions to the graph.

Brian.
 
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I'm gonna find my second stone in the truck. Woulda looked earlier, but today has sucked. 52 degrees, raining, and 16 mph wind right now. :(
 
hardheart said:
I find that graph to be very inaccurate on the X axis.
Click to expand...

I think maybe the axis is shifted so that X doesn't start at 0, but something more like 5. If so, medium SiC would be a 6 and fine diamond would be an 8.5. Does that sound closer? Or would you care to guesstimate a few values in the 1 - 10 range on that graph? I.E, what value out of 10 do you think medium SiC should be? Or some other stone that you know well?

Or maybe it's a lost cause and the graph just isn't linear. Any thoughts on it are appreciated.

Brian.
 
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