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pretty much to the size it is on screen , about 9" long, 4 1/2" across widest point....just incase ya have a huge monitor, LOL !
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Skatchet
- Thread starter abo4ster
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pretty much to the size it is on screen , about 9" long, 4 1/2" across widest point....just incase ya have a huge monitor, LOL !
Mistwalker
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Of the "survival" knife/hatchet designs I've seen I think I like Vector's ECO Hawk best, it looks nice and simple, and portable ...maybe a variation of it more suited to skinning would be a good low weight option.
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I agree, I'd just like to see one without all the sharp angles, make it with curves and nice convex grinds !
:thumbup:
Mistwalker
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I agree, I'd just like to see one without all the sharp angles, make it with curves and nice convex grinds !
Exactly!
Scary how much we think alike sometimes...it worries me
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Needham:
my idea on t he small one (and the larger drawing) is a slit handle and cordage wrap. you can brace the bottom of the bit on the branch, as well, but it's not a long term treated handle solution.
I could see adding a nail puller, and a bow drill notch (though I personally don't see the reason to use something sharp for that when a piece of waxed wood or somethign will work.)
No comment on guthooks.
pit- I'm messing with your design but nothing has hit me as, The Way, yet.
my idea on t he small one (and the larger drawing) is a slit handle and cordage wrap. you can brace the bottom of the bit on the branch, as well, but it's not a long term treated handle solution.
I could see adding a nail puller, and a bow drill notch (though I personally don't see the reason to use something sharp for that when a piece of waxed wood or somethign will work.)
No comment on guthooks.
pit- I'm messing with your design but nothing has hit me as, The Way, yet.
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pretty much to the size it is on screen , about 9" long, 4 1/2" across widest point....just incase ya have a huge monitor, LOL !
I wish I could say that I have a big monitor, but it's just average size.... I believe that 9" is a little large for the Skatchet concept, in that size range, I'd rather have a Knatchet (I need a Knatchet..). What do you think?
I agree, I'd just like to see one without all the sharp angles, make it with curves and nice convex grinds !
I agree, the Eco hawk is right in line with what we are talking about though..
The handle really only needs to be a short term thing, I think... With the ATAX, I learned early on that being able to really secure the blade to the handle for that short period of time is important (probably kind of obvious..) Of the features I listed I personally think the pry hook and hammer are of great value. I've never used a guthook for anything and I agree with your assessment of bow drill notch.. What do other folks think?
I would like to throw in my humble drawing. I put a fair soze stop in front with plenty of holes for para cord.
Scout - That is awesome:thumbup: How do you see the dimensions?
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I don't think you'd need the bit poking out the back would ya ? Maybe just a slot in the blade section to lash through !
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I need to put it on paper to get it all figured out, but I was seeing it as 4" cutting face, 1/4" stock and about 3 to 3.5" from cutting face to back (part that rest on the handle) of the stop.
I went out and "Took care of a rabbit" for the wife, I saw the first try I made a little over a year ago and gave it another pass. I put the blade in a piece of some what green wood I had in the shop. Yes the whole set up would last longer if I lashed it, but was able to cut legs and head off the rabit and did some chopping on some myrtel would blocks I has in the shop. It is only a 2.5" cutting head, but was a good first step.
I went out and "Took care of a rabbit" for the wife, I saw the first try I made a little over a year ago and gave it another pass. I put the blade in a piece of some what green wood I had in the shop. Yes the whole set up would last longer if I lashed it, but was able to cut legs and head off the rabit and did some chopping on some myrtel would blocks I has in the shop. It is only a 2.5" cutting head, but was a good first step.
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I agree, I'd just like to see one (an ECO Hawk - vec) without all the sharp angles, make it with curves and nice convex grinds !
the sharp angles are just there for simplicity of sharpening, brother.
the angles on the edges have some performance benefits, but mostly the profile is just for reasons stated - to get her done.
i'd like to make some smoother edge profiles, but this design seemed to be the simplest to do, while remaining affordable and easy to maintain. - those were the objectives.
i hope to make some similar designs with more belly, but they will move away from the ultralight directive that the ECOs have. - more specialized for hunting, etc.
as the designer, i think the ECO Hawk concept isn't really comparable to the ATAX or the Skatchet, or any of these nice heavier designs. - the ATAX weighs about a pound, for example, while the ECOs weigh 7.1 Ounces.
sometimes i want to go Ultralight and Fast. - just going on a hike, hopefully drama-free.
- on those occasions, i'll reach for my creation.- just enough to take advantage of things that can be gleaned.
when weight isn't such a factor, but i still want to go compact and inconspicuous, i'll grab my vectorized ATAX with the ECO as my small fixed blade. - wish i had a Skatchet, but i don't... i like the ATAX quite a bit though, especially mounted at an angle, inverted.
so to me, the ECO is just not in the same league as the Skatchet or ATAX. just a different animal.
It's like a good KaBar (ECOs) compared to a good Forest Axe (the Skatchet, ATAX, etc.).
the KaBar (or ECO) is plenty enough for me when i am doing a survival outing.
but the AXE would be nice to have, when i didn't have to lug it around.
you understand. - i am blowing this explanation.:thumbdn:
[/rant]
vec
Mistwalker
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the sharp angles are just there for simplicity of sharpening, brother.
the angles on the edges have some performance benefits, but mostly the profile is just for reasons stated - to get her done.
i'd like to make some smoother edge profiles, but this design seemed to be the simplest to do, while remaining affordable and easy to maintain. - those were the objectives.
i hope to make some similar designs with more belly, but they will move away from the ultralight directive that the ECOs have. - more specialized for hunting, etc.
as the designer, i think the ECO Hawk concept isn't really comparable to the ATAX or the Skatchet, or any of these nice heavier designs. - the ATAX weighs about a pound, for example, while the ECOs weigh 7.1 Ounces.
sometimes i want to go Ultralight and Fast. - just going on a hike, hopefully drama-free.
- on those occasions, i'll reach for my creation.- just enough to take advantage of things that can be gleaned.
when weight isn't such a factor, but i still want to go compact and inconspicuous, i'll grab my vectorized ATAX with the ECO as my small fixed blade. - wish i had a Skatchet, but i don't... i like the ATAX quite a bit though, especially mounted at an angle, inverted.
so to me, the ECO is just not in the same league as the Skatchet or ATAX. just a different animal.
It's like a good KaBar (ECOs) compared to a good Forest Axe (the Skatchet, ATAX, etc.).
the KaBar (or ECO) is plenty enough for me when i am doing a survival outing.
but the AXE would be nice to have, when i didn't have to lug it around.
you understand. - i am blowing this explanation.:thumbdn:
[/rant]
vec
Rant not withstanding...I was just saying I like the simplistic approach of the ECO Hawk.
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interesting.
i would've thought the opposite was true, that straight edges were easier....
i call that a tanto/spike, brother.
it is a really nice feature with slashes and draws, for example. - maybe because the hand way down on the haft gives it better guidance than a good knife in an ice pick hold. it's a guess. 'works beautifully as a survival knife too, which is as i had hoped.
when digging, i've been flipping the head inverted, so the edge is protected a bit more from the rocky earth here.
you can also mount heads like the ECO, which have a pretty straight mass distribution, on their side, on top of the improvised haft, so that you can use the head as a modified spiked adze.
the whole ECO makes a decent Harpoon Head too, and the bit acts as a catch when used in that form....
hope that gives ya some Mind Candy, brother. - i love your work.
get those creative juices flowing.
your bud,
vec
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Interesting to see this thread pop back up. As an FYI, I changed my forum name from Quiet Bear to abo4ster since originally starting the thread.
FWIW, since that time, I have gotten an ATAX and a mini GB hatchet. I really like the GB mini hatchet for its performance and I doubt any improvement can be made in that regard by a skatchet type product of the same size head. While the ATAX is neat product and I appreciate its many uses, I would carry the GB Mini over the ATAX based on the size, shape and weight.
That being said, I do believe there is still an opportunity to have a compact tool similiar to the Skatchet/ATAX that would outperform both as a chopper/splitter in both performance and ease of handle set-up. In addition, AND just as important, this new tool must be less cumbersome to carry than both the ATAX and a GB Mini in my opinion to be an improvement.
Please keep the ideas coming.
FWIW, since that time, I have gotten an ATAX and a mini GB hatchet. I really like the GB mini hatchet for its performance and I doubt any improvement can be made in that regard by a skatchet type product of the same size head. While the ATAX is neat product and I appreciate its many uses, I would carry the GB Mini over the ATAX based on the size, shape and weight.
That being said, I do believe there is still an opportunity to have a compact tool similiar to the Skatchet/ATAX that would outperform both as a chopper/splitter in both performance and ease of handle set-up. In addition, AND just as important, this new tool must be less cumbersome to carry than both the ATAX and a GB Mini in my opinion to be an improvement.
Please keep the ideas coming.
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I would love to see someone do a Survival Rescue Tool. I would understand if they couldn't do the glass and tile cutter wheel on it, but all the rest would be great and I think it would sell like mad.
That Eco-Hawk is about the coolest and most innovative thing I have seen in a long, long time.
That Eco-Hawk is about the coolest and most innovative thing I have seen in a long, long time.
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what would you want such a thing to do exactly, brother?
pry? cut seatbelt and harness material safely? hammer?...?
i don't see why you couldn't get a glass cutter integrated into such a tool.
i'd love to see you start a thread and elaborate on that one.
thanks, that is mighty high praise.
i'd like to brag about how smart i was, but the ECO is really just the result of a physics diagram, a thing any brother can learn to do with a buck-fifty in library fines.
:thumbup: - i asked myself what i wanted the ECO tool to do, then did some calculations and there it was, the essential form.even the Center of Mass is calculated.
it works. i'm very glad ya like it.
.......
i am hoping that we are about to see a lot of blademakers throw out the old templates and follow similar scientific processes to execute what they really want. they are certainly smart enough to do so, commonly.
so many great things like the Skatchet could've been so much better with just a few tweaks.
maybe someone will make a better one.
we already see great old designs that have taken advantage of new and better materials - (BTW - I'd love a sawback D2 Nessmuck if a brother here makes one) ...but all these classics work, and remain in use, because of mechanical physics (as opposed to chemical physics for the purposes of conversation here; as in alloys).
physics can always be tweaked, resulting in better performance and form.
we all know this. we should practice it more IMHO.
dang.
i gotta get me a mill.
vec
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Have you watched Ron Hood's Vol. III DVD on Survival Kits? That particular tool is in there with a pretty good explanation of it. I like it better than the ATAX concept because it is basically flat whereas the ATAX has the micarta grip. It's not that I find better grips to be a bad thing, it's just a different idea, of having something totally flat that can do so many things. I also don't much care for the Ulu aspects of the ATAX but I also think that some people have been too hard on the ATAX. It will definitely work as intended. Just not me. The "knuckleduster" type of multitool like the Survival Rescue Tool is more appealing to me...
I can find an old picture of one and scan it in the next couple/few days if you would be interested in making one of them.
Hey! You get what you deserve!
That's very true. The Survival Rescue Tool was also in that realm.
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I can find an old picture of one and scan it in the next couple/few days if you would be interested in making one of them.
i'm interested.
i've got a ton of plans for similar (sounding) things, but it's always good to see what's out there already.
TIA, brother rearic.
vec