Skookum Bush Tool Wait List

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Danke42 said:
It really comes down to finding that balance. Just like steel finding the level between sharpness and strength and edge retention and retention with a side order of ease of sharpening.
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These are the big questions in life that have tortured men for centuries....... some may call us autistic.
 
trevitrace said:
I just received my skookum in 3v after a long wait. Ordered Feb 2014. While I was a little surprised by the price increase I don't think it was too unreasonable. The prices on his site were last updated in 2009... $200 for the knife in 01 or A2 or add $20 for 3v, shipping is $10. At the time of my order he told me that prices had gone up $20 since. Now we're at $250. So $35 more than six years ago. I'm not going to get bent out of shape over that.

I do agree that his communication is terrible. Dismal even. And for what some see as such a basic knife six years is a absurd amount of time. But the knife came sharp with even bevels and tidy fitment.

Also didn't ask for any money upfront so in my mind no way analogous to guy/survive? knives.

I think it's a great little knife and I'm happy to have finally received it.
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Please read my comment again. I wasn't quoted $250. I was quoted $285 for one knife, or $560 ($280 apiece) for both of the knives I had ordered. In no way is an unannounced, unagreed to price increase of $110 (or $65) increase reasonable. We had an agreed on price. I don't care what his prices or costs are now, in 2020. I agreed to a price he charged back in 2013. Oh, additional fun fact? He communicated NO additional cost to me for 3V at the time I ordered it. He said that his knives were now $220 at that time with the $10 shipping. Sweet. $450 shipped for two knives seemed like a good deal. Adding over a hundred dollars to that is not.

In any case, I'm not going to retread ground. Hopefully folks understand that if they DO contact Rod for a knife:

1. Be ready to wait for several years or longer
2. Be ready for a significant unannounced, unagreed-on price increase

Hopefully people will do the smart thing and walk.
 
Well as I recall their is no down payment so comparing him to Surv!ve is not even close. Guy would have had your full payment up front and you could still wait for years.

Bummer that prices have gone up but does anyone really expect him to still honor 2009 pricing?

Even at $285 there is a good chance you could get $400 on the secondary market the day it does finially arrive in your hands.

Far from a perfect situation but it cost you nothing up front to get on the list.
 
Heirphoto said:
Well as I recall their is no down payment so comparing him to Surv!ve is not even close. Guy would have had your full payment up front and you could still wait for years.

Bummer that prices have gone up but does anyone really expect him to still honor 2009 pricing?

Even at $285 there is a good chance you could get $400 on the secondary market the day it does finially arrive in your hands.

Far from a perfect situation but it cost you nothing up front to get on the list.
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What? I absolutely did. We had an agreement. Simple as that.

People giving this guy a pass is why we have so many bad, unreliable makers on the market. Wow. If the guy can't be trusted to stick to an agreement, how am I expected to believe he'll stick to any warranty he's agreed to provide?
 
Quiet said:
What? I absolutely did. We had an agreement. Simple as that.

People giving this guy a pass is why we have so many bad, unreliable makers on the market. Wow. If the guy can't be trusted to stick to an agreement, how am I expected to believe he'll stick to any warranty he's agreed to provide?
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Was not trying to single you out in particular, just replying to various statements I have seen in the thread. Sorry.

Did you give a deposit or have an actual agreement with him? I had not heard of having to do this. I simply got on a list and an hoping for the best. For me at least I kind of knew the whole pricess was uncertain and maybe with no guarantee of success.

My apologies if this sounded like an attack in any way.
 
Heirphoto said:
Was not trying to single you out in particular, just replying to various statements I have seen in the thread. Sorry.

Did you give a deposit or have an actual agreement with him? I had not heard of having to do this. I simply got on a list and an hoping for the best. For me at least I kind of knew the whole pricess was uncertain and maybe with no guarantee of success.

My apologies if this sounded like an attack in any way.
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I did not give a deposit*, but we had an agreement arranged by email. It's how I know what the original agreed on price was, and why it angered me that for an additional three years to have been added to my four year wait time, only to have the guy come at me with a significant price increase. There was no way I was doing that.

As an extra aside, I went and tracked down the thread:

https://bladeforums.com/threads/is-the-skookum-bush-tool-all-that.1677579/page-3#post-19191542

This is where I posted about this situation previously. The relevant post in there is #20.




* Please do not say "Well then you weren't out anything", this has been covered in other threads, I very much was out something. Sorry if that comes off as an attack in return, it's not meant as one, simply a statement. Time and desire for a thing that never materializes, or does in an untimely fashion very much is a loss.
 
I want to add one more thing. Someone posted up on the very last post of that thread that I linked above, that they ordered a knife in September 2015, and got it in May 2019. That means that Rod took at least one order nearly two years after mine....and somehow that other guy got his knife a year before I received an email that mine were ready. Given the extra three years it took to get mine done, I have no issue assuming that that means plenty more orders were magically bumped ahead of me in line. Yeah, definitely the actions of a quality maker.

Heh, anyway folks, anyone who wants to place an order with Rod Garcia, good luck.
 
I'll post here for reference. I e-mailed him 5 years ago. He responded about 3 weeks after that; he put me on the list. I e-mailed him about 2 years ago to check in. He never replied, I never heard from him again.

I think this happens in the handmade garage/cottage/small-shop/small-scale world of business. Some guy who's really good at what he does (who doesn't want to scale up) comes up with a "best" design. Word spreads online, as do the legends. Then their books fill up, for good.

I think the long absent website maintenance is a strong hint. He hasn't needed outreach in a long time.
 
Quiet said:
I did not give a deposit*, but we had an agreement arranged by email. It's how I know what the original agreed on price was, and why it angered me that for an additional three years to have been added to my four year wait time, only to have the guy come at me with a significant price increase. There was no way I was doing that.
.
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Did you just walk or did you tell him you had an agreement and would not pay more-showing him the Email?

2nd ? to all who have gone on long lists. Is it common for the price to change. Has anyone else experienced a price jump when their time finally came up? I know there are some lists longer than this one, and not sure how a maker can factor in costs that far out, but IMO an agreement is an agreement.
 
Anyhoo I think it's cool a maker is making on their own terms to suit themselves and the way they want to work and live their life AND still run a 5 year waiting list for their creations.

Not many folks are that winning at life and will sell out or cash in.

That level of self belief gonna irk some folks.
 
Peter Hartwig said:
Did you just walk or did you tell him you had an agreement and would not pay more-showing him the Email?

2nd ? to all who have gone on long lists. Is it common for the price to change. Has anyone else experienced a price jump when their time finally came up? I know there are some lists longer than this one, and not sure how a maker can factor in costs that far out, but IMO an agreement is an agreement.
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I just walked. I owe him nothing, and showed him the same respect he showed me. They're just knives, and as best I can tell, their chief draw is that a famous Bushcrafter said they were the best. I had long since emotionally moved on, and it pleased me to return the favor, however slight. I'm sure he was just moved to the next person in line, probably with those exact knives. I mean there are only like four choices after all. It's nothing to me at this point, I've long since matured in my knife use needs. $285 for a saber grind knife with a leather phallus sheath you're supposed to hang around your neck? Heh, no. Anyway, I've said my piece. I have moved forward, and wish this guy and those who will wait that long for such a mediocre product nothing but the best.

As someone else states, my own level of winning at life is doing just fine without anything from Rod Garcia.
 
Quiet said:
* Please do not say "Well then you weren't out anything", this has been covered in other threads, I very much was out something. Sorry if that comes off as an attack in return, it's not meant as one, simply a statement. Time and desire for a thing that never materializes, or does in an untimely fashion very much is a loss.
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Understood, I do very well relate to the disappointment factor. Had a few things I have dreamed about for years simply become no longer available at any cost or wait time. That part does hurt. I simply meant the monetary loss.

I will say having owned two over the years, while great knives they are not magic. Their appeal to me was that they were still made by one guy, more or less one at a time in a home shop. Many other makers have gone to water jet blanks, various grinding stations all with different employees, etc.... more production than by the sweat of the brow of a single maker. They do nothing any other knife will do but do have that cult following. While I love the early one I still own it seldom gets used anymore.
 
People also complain about Cold Steel for having the exact oppositte production and marketting strategies.

Thank God we live in a free capitalist society where you can openly complain about the wide & diverse range of choices you have available for expensive luxury fetish items you don't even need.....love it baby.
 
Quiet said:
I just walked. I owe him nothing, and showed him the same respect he showed me. .
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I was just curious if you had, and if you had how he had responded. It is certainly your right to walk, and the price change doesn't sit well. Then again I don't know how he would be able to determine costs that far out. I would keep the book shorter if I were him-but I am not:).
 
It seems like a convoluted way to do business, changing an agreed upon price when the item is ready for shipping, and I wouldn’t trust nor respect a person with those practices.
If most of the buyers agree to his tactics, then he has little reason to change his system of pricing, or start to care about being honorable.
 
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Long time peruser but rare poster lol

I'll stick up for Rod too. I ordered mine Nov 2014 and received it Dec 2019 (in fact I received Rod's e-mail Dec 5th 2019....the day Mors passed...RIP.). A lot changes over 5 years for everyone. I think the price may have gone up over that time.....I don't know nor do I care, to me it was nominal.

I'm taking some liberties here but I do believe bushcraft is/was a hobby for Rod. I do know he has taken several classes with Mors Kohanski and designed/made the Skookum based off his interpretation of what a knife for that application should be. Mors' admiration and use of the Skookum grew the legend. Much like Alan Wood making the Woodlore knife for Ray Mears. Both can fetch a price well beyond the rational cost of the materials and time....some would even argue the design and finishing. But the makers just made a knife, we set the price. These knives get the glory for what they represent. Much like a Rolex Submariner is the benchmark all dive watches are compared to. Are there better watches for less? You could argue either way. They did something nobody else did and thus get the notoriety. Rod certainly is not selling them for what the secondary market is. I've pursued many and years ago watched them sail over the 1k mark!

Regardless, this is a hobby/interest turned business by demand. A passion or pleasure is risk to become chore when the love is gone. I'm sure if he invested more of his time into it, things would be better for us, but not him. What if he wants time with his family, time to camp, travel, go to his day job? What if he just doesn't want to be in his shop that day? Sure he could focus on production and churned them out, but that's his choice not to.
I doubt many of us receive the abundance of e-mails he does requesting production services for your hobby??? He's pretty up front with the process and if he's not responding to e-mails I think we can all take the hint..... We're talking a hand made one at a time knife with thousands asking for theirs.

We also have different expectations and patients levels. As a husband, father, and a public servant perhaps I'm more understanding. In 5 years I had 4 correspondence with him. His last e-mail to me provided this

"I apologize for not keeping up with your emails, I’ve been swamped with customer emails and just haven’t kept up but am working on it. I have a note on the bench to start your order (O1 knife with black scales, two lanyard holes and shearing hole) after I finish this last batch, probably the end of next week. I’ll keep you posted.

Again, sorry for the terrible response and thanks for your patience,

Talk to you soon,

Rod"

I don't believe he's any of the negative things people have implied in this thread. And I don't believe knocking his design and craftmenship is appropriate either. Like it or not he has made an impact on the knife community, and an even bigger one in the bushcraft world. We're all hear talking about his knife! The same knife design that is copied and made tweaks to by countless knife-makers and will continue as long as bushcraft knives are made. I thought the wait was worth it. But to be the knife is more than just the sum of it's parts.
If anyone cares the 5 years I waited I used an A.S. Harding 4mm Skookum. Anthony (Tony) is a stand up guy, responded to all my e-mails within a few days and make phenomenal knives on equipment purchased from Alan Wood himself! I honestly don't know if I'll be able to transition to the OG Skookum. But I didn't buy it to be a safe queen and unless I get hard up I'm not selling!

Anyways, take it easy on the guy and try to be cool to each other. You haven't met him, you don't know his circumstance. If you want a real Skookum Bushtool from Rod himself there's no secret to getting one. You order and you wait. In the meantime grab a A.S. Harding or a buck 119 or one of the million other serviceable knives
 
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pamonster said:
Long time peruser but rare poster lol

I'll stick up for Rod too. I ordered mine Nov 2014 and received it Dec 2019 (in fact I received Rod's e-mail Dec 5th 2019....the day Mors passed...RIP.). A lot changes over 5 years for everyone. I think the price may have gone up over that time.....I don't know nor do I care, to me it was nominal.

I'm taking some liberties here but I do believe bushcraft is/was a hobby for Rod. I do know he has taken several classes with Mors Kohanski and designed/made the Skookum based off his interpretation of what a knife for that application should be. Mors' admiration and use of the Skookum grew the legend. Much like Alan Wood making the Woodlore knife for Ray Mears. Both can fetch a price well beyond the rational cost of the materials and time....some would even argue the design and finishing. But the makers just made a knife, we set the price. These knives get the glory for what they represent. Much like a Rolex Submariner is the benchmark all dive watches are compared to. Are there better watches for less? You could argue either way. They did something nobody else did and thus get the notoriety. Rod certainly is not selling them for what the secondary market is. I've pursued many and years ago watched them sail over the 1k mark!

Regardless, this is a hobby/interest turned business by demand. A passion or pleasure is risk to become chore when the love is gone. I'm sure if he invested more of his time into it, things would be better for us, but not him. What if he wants time with his family, time to camp, travel, go to his day job? What if he just doesn't want to be in his shop that day? Sure he could focus on production and churned them out, but that's his choice not to.
I doubt many of us receive the abundance of e-mails he does requesting production services for your hobby??? He's pretty up front with the process and if he's not responding to e-mails I think we can all take the hint..... We're talking a hand made one at a time knife with thousands asking for theirs.

We also have different expectations and patients levels. As a husband, father, and a public servant perhaps I'm more understanding. In 5 years I had 4 correspondence with him. His last e-mail to me provided this

"I apologize for not keeping up with your emails, I’ve been swamped with customer emails and just haven’t kept up but am working on it. I have a note on the bench to start your order (O1 knife with black scales, two lanyard holes and shearing hole) after I finish this last batch, probably the end of next week. I’ll keep you posted.

Again, sorry for the terrible response and thanks for your patience,

Talk to you soon,

Rod"

I don't believe he's any of the negative things people have implied in this thread. And I don't believe knocking his design and craftmenship is appropriate either. Like it or not he has made an impact on the knife community, and an even bigger one in the bushcraft world. We're all hear talking about his knife! The same knife design that is copied and made tweaks to by countless knife-makers and will continue as long as bushcraft knives are made. I thought the wait was worth it. But to be the knife is more than just the sum of it's parts.
If anyone cares the 5 years I waited I used an A.S. Harding 4mm Skookum. Anthony (Tony) is a stand up guy, responded to all my e-mails within a few days and make phenomenal knives on equipment purchased from Alan Wood himself! I honestly don't know if I'll be able to transition to the OG Skookum. But I didn't buy it to be a safe queen and unless I get hard up I'm not selling!

Anyways, take it easy on the guy and try to be cool to each other. You haven't met him, you don't know his circumstance. If you want a real Skookum Bushtool from Rod himself there's no secret to getting one. You order and you wait. In the meantime grab a A.S. Harding or a buck 119 or one of the million other serviceable knives
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Great post, I don't know why others can't see it this way. Hate to say it but it seems like a lot of feelings of entitlement and self importance by folks that want their smookum and want it now or they throw a literal tantrum.
 
Not in the least. I have no interest in the knife, to me it looks to be fairly mediocre at best knife in terms of materials and design, with an absurd wait time and an odd instaprice system.

I am, however, fascinated by all parts of our hobby including the supply and demand side of things. It appears that these things are heavily in demand, not so much because of what they are but because of what they represent. The maker appears to be a decent and so far as I can tell, honest guy and a lousy businessman. He obviously is not keeping pace with demand. He probably make a lot more money were he to do so.

Or would he? If he were to automate to increase production would he destroy the "hand made" cachet he has created? It appears quite possibly that would kill the golden goose. People apparently LIKE waiting years and telling their story.

Good for them, good for him. Interesting for the rest of us. Much like Busse or GEC he appears to have either deliberately or inadvertently created an artificial scarcity and thereby insured a steady demand with a nutty secondary market.
 
Triton said:
not so much because of what they are but because of what they represent.
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That's pretty much the entire knife exchange, secondary market, interest in traditionals and customs and pretty much every loved knife brand in every sub-forum of every knife website on the planet.
 
Houlahound said:
That's pretty much the entire knife exchange, secondary market, interest in traditionals and customs and pretty much every loved knife brand in every sub-forum of every knife website on the planet.
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I don't think so. Some knives have value because they have genuinely better materials or design. Some have value because they are one of a kind pieces of art. Some have value because their maker is the best at what he does. Some have value because they are old and no longer produced and there is a real scarcity. In this case it appears that's we simply have inefficient production methods, creating an unremarkable knife and making it more valuable. This certainly is not unprecedented, but I do not think you can say "it's the same as everything else."
 
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