Slipjoint stuff...

[Kohai999]

Folksy Folks,

(channeling the great departed VG) ‘Tis I, the namer of the Folksy…here to hopefully stimulate discussion, and suchlike.

Bose knives…..the grinds are great, the function fantastic, the feel flawless, the prices on the aftermarket overwhelming…all that and a bag o’ chips.:thumbup:

So why is the Backpocket possessing of such a longish handle, and smallish blade? In other words, suboptimal blade-to-handle ratio.

I have been mulling this one over, as well as the next question…..how come, of the 8 or so knifemakers that I have in my slipjoint collection, one of if not THE best, came from a Japanese fella’ named Ohta? Nothing had to be done to that knife, seen here, http://www.plazacutlery.com/OHTA/OHTA1099937back.htm save for a little “burnishing” of the stag to bring out some of the color….on many of the other knives, sharp edges had to be broken, and serious, unnecessary mass removed. These are supposed to be American knives…the best on the planet…purpose built for the folksiest of the folksy folks.

Is it homage to make it just like Remington, or Case, or Queen, or laziness?

Did they make it perfect, or can the patterns use some substantial tweaking to bridge the gap between great designs, and modern methods of custom(referring to custom made, specifically in this thread, for clarity) creation?

Don’t be getting’ all huffy either…the purpose of the post was to get some discussion going and some questions answered.

Best Regards,

Steven Garsson

 

[bdws1975]

boy, sounded more like you have the answers than you were asking questions.

enlighten us....

 

[VCM3]

Steven,
I think,a lot can be said on this.But IMO,& to keep it simple:

Custom slipjoint makers styles & flares & spins on how they build knives and how they turn out,vary,from maker to maker

The best slipjoints were made by the English,and thier craft & style carried over here

Some of the most expensive hard to get Vintage Case collectible knives were only made to be,edc pocketknives,so fit & finish was not really the main concern

As far as blade to handle ratio,I've seen a few extremes,both ways

I'm no writer,just some thoughts,Good thread though,Thanks,
-Vince

 

[Kohai999]

boy, sounded more like you have the answers than you were asking questions.

enlighten us....

That's the beginning of "huffy", Brett...the questions are sincere, and those that know me, know that.....there is no "loading", "leading" or agenda here.

Thanks, Vince!

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[VCM3]

Also,
Some patterns are known for odd handle to blade ratios.Like a warncliffe half whittler,for instance.The main blade will almost always be a "shorty"
-Vince

 

[bdws1975]

That's the beginning of "huffy", Brett...the questions are sincere, and those that know me, know that.....there is no "loading", "leading" or agenda here.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

maybe I just need a nap.

 

[Kohai999]

Also,
Some patterns are known for odd handle to blade ratios.Like a warncliffe half whittler,for instance.The main blade will almost always be a "shorty"
-Vince

I do understand that, Vince...just like a woodworker's knife has a 1" blade, and a long handle, purpose built.

I was speaking more of the patterns like two-blade trapper, 3 blade stockman, sodbuster....

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[stockman242]

Did they make it perfect, or can the patterns use some substantial tweaking to bridge the gap between great designs, and modern methods of custom creation?

The patterns have been developed over time, to suit the needs of the user,
and are named according to that: stockman, whittler...
So its not surprising that other people feel like the patter could use some tweaking, to fit the need of them.

Should you be talking about the fit and finish, I apologize.

The fit and finish on older knifes was way better, than todays, with exception of the custom makers.

 

[VCM3]

I do understand that, Vince...just like a woodworker's knife has a 1" blade, and a long handle, purpose built.

I was speaking more of the patterns like two-blade trapper, 3 blade stockman, sodbuster....

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

Steven,
If it is custom slipjoints you are referring to with handle to blade ratio,I gotta stick to my original & the obvious.You will see,a lot of variation from maker to maker
Also,I've seen a few,where the actual pivot was further back on the bolster,on those knives,when they were opened up,they were strong

One has to wonder too,What is on the makers mind when he makes the slipjoint.Is it for collection only? Or will it have what it takes to be pocketed & used every day ?
Without mentioning names,I'm sure,that there are makers with these ideas in mind

I've compared my Tony AND Reese bose warncliffe trappers blade size/handle size ratio,to a few others,not a huge amount,but a few others,and they seem to have it down.

Then there is consistency,knife to knife,too,to ponder

It's a lot

-Vince

 

[Kohai999]

FWIW,

Besides a general distaste for brass and nickel silver, I find nothing wrong with many of the current factory offerings, especially the big stockman from Queen.

Often, I have wondered if a custom maker would take the D2 blades, and create a new handle of stainless steel with great stag or pearl handles..

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[VCM3]

Steven,
There are some custom slipjoint makers who use brass liners.I think at this level,they certainly are meant to be users
Also,nothing like the way you can spiff up & repolish nickel silver bolsters on a user,as compared to ss,but there are a few "tricks" for ss,too (to polish out)

Here's a thought,too,before I lose my thought,I've seen recently,a production knife,it was a serpentine jack. The main blade was short,for the handle,certainly odd.I showed it to a fella who knows,and,what do you say,it was a knife made out of bought up parts

So,again,you will see,a lot of variation.
Also,I hate to say this & don't want to name names,but some of the best production slipjoints I've seen (modern stuff),with my limited experience,were made by other companies than what was stamped on & sold as

One more rambling.....Nickel silver really takes away from good looking white MOPearl scales,for the overall appearance of that knife

-Vince

 

[KnifeHead]

I'm certainly no expert of handle to blade ratios but aren't you always going to have a shorter blade than the handle on a slip joint.

As far as finishing, there should NEVER be anything on a knife handle that would irritate your hand. If someone is making knife that is not comfortable in the hand, they didn't finish it. There...I said it.

Great thread BTW K...way to stir up the pot. :thumbup:

 

[Kohai999]

I'm certainly no expert of handle to blade ratios but aren't you always going to have a shorter blade than the handle on a slip joint.

As far as finishing, there should NEVER be anything on a knife handle that would irritate your hand. If someone is making knife that is not comfortable in the hand, they didn't finish it. There...I said it.

Kerry,

1. Yes, the handle will always be longer, generally speaking(this being the folksy forum, I'll not go for the obvious x-rated zingers)....but by how much or little....the handle is to store the longest main blade possible, IMO....unless we are discussing the afformentioned, "special patterns".

2. Was just talking to Win Heger about this "irritate the hand" thing. A lot of makers have serious callous and loss of feeling in their hands, so the knife may feel great to them, and I am definitely talking about veteran makers with solid skills, BUT, us wussy, desk-jockey types will be much more sensitive to unbroken or barely broken 90 degree angles than cause us to flinch when limp wristing open the day's trust fund envelope(ha-ha, lol)....difference of perceptions...I suggested to Win that it might benefit the makers to have the wife, girlfriend or sister handle it, and give feedback before shipping. What do you think about that?

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[Blues]

STeven,

I was much of the same opinion as you regarding the ratios of the BackPocket model and even corresponded with Tony about it.

However, (and this is not blowing smoke), when I got my 4 1/8" BackPocket, everything seemed to be in correct proportion.

I think that the angles of some of the images I had seen distorted the look somewhat making the handle look huge in comparison to the blade. That is not the case in my admittedly limited experience.

 

[VCM3]

Steven,
On your last post,your #1.....
On some patterns,the blade will almost always never be the longest stuffed into the handle
Take the Swayback,for instance,I've had a few now(from a few makers),and the main blade,will almost never have the same handle to ratio,as say,a trapper
It goes back to what pattern you are referring to & every pattern is a "special" pattern
-Vince

 

[JB in SC]

I'm with Kerry. Nothing worse than a "hot" edge on anything but the cutting edge. I'm sure it takes a little more time and effort to break the edges, some get it...some don't. That applies to folders and fixed blades (carry guns as well).

I don't know enough about construction techniques among the various makers to make an intelligent comment on handle to blade ratios other than some look "correct" and some don't.

 

[Kohai999]

STeven,

I was much of the same opinion as you regarding the ratios of the BackPocket model and even corresponded with Tony about it.

However, (and this is not blowing smoke), when I got my 4 1/8" BackPocket, everything seemed to be in correct proportion.

Elliott, I have only handled a Reese Bose BP, and the blade seemed about 1/4" too short...but maybe it was an early one, or something. With a 4 1/8" handle, I would really hope for a 3 1/2"- ish blade in a slipjoint. It just seems right.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[VCM3]

But this is what makes slipjoints so great,there are so many patterns & variants.
Thick handles,thin,flat,round
One thing though,I'll always warm up to a good cutter.
-Vince

 

[Blues]

Elliott, I have only handled a Reese Bose BP, and the blade seemed about 1/4" too short...but maybe it was an early one, or something. With a 4 1/8" handle, I would really hope for a 3 1/2"- ish blade in a slipjoint. It just seems right.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

Well, mine is ~3 3/8" from tip to bolster. Just measured it for you. So it's pretty close to your requirement.

 

[Kohai999]

Well, mine is ~3 3/8" from tip to bolster. Just measured it for you. So it's pretty close to your requirement.

I won't quibble with an 1/8" unless we are talking about a pile of $100 dollar bills.

The model that I have, by another maker is 4 1/2" handle, and 3 7/16" blade, which is again, about 1/4" +/- too short.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson