Slipjoint stuff...

[KnifeHead]

.....American makers have NO end to inspiration to do it right...they can pick up the phone, ask questions in their native tongue, and go to the store and pick up examples at less than full retail which they can take apart, examine and duplicate....but they almost never do....they stubbornly decide that THEY know how to do it better.

Dang...you nailed a serious issue with that last line. :thumbup:

This is a problem with "artists" in general, whether they be a painter, or sculptor, or musician, or MODERN knifemaker...big egos. I empasized "modern" because this is a contemporary problem with knifemakers today because of the shift from knives being a tool to a piece of art.

Charlie is right on the money because the pocket knife IS a tool primarily. Collectors are "turning them into art" and, don't take this wrong, part of the problem. There really is no excuse for the fit and finish issues you pointed out. I have to agree with Tony and Charlie that the blade/handle ratio is somewhat nebulous and too variable to nail down as a design issue.

( I can say that about ego because mine ain's so tiny either. Being a musician, and artist, and knifemaker/sculptor(right puukkoman? ), a have the dreaded triple whammy. My wife keeps it in check. )

 

[Kohai999]

Dang...you nailed a serious issue with that last line. :thumbup:

Charlie is right on the money because the pocket knife IS a tool primarily. Collectors are "turning them into art" and, don't take this wrong, part of the problem. There really is no excuse for the fit and finish issues you pointed out. I have to agree with Tony and Charlie that the blade/handle ratio is somewhat nebulous and too variable to nail down as a design issue.

( I can say that about ego because mine ain's so tiny either. Being a musician, and artist, and knifemaker/sculptor(right puukkoman? ), a have the dreaded triple whammy. My wife keeps it in check. )

Kerry,
Have used and carried every custom slipjoint that I own, and not just for opening envelopes......understand where you are coming from completely...just wanted to clarify that these are not safe queens.

I KNOW all of these knives, because of spending time using them...that is really when issues reveal themselves, and frankly, with the exception of the side-to-side play, and sharp edges...they all WORKED fine, held an edge, good walk and talk(with the exception of one, which is kind of whimpy) and are good tools....BUT, when I am paying over $500.00/knife....I want more than just a good tool, I want what I want...and that is the whole enchilada, a bit of art/craft, a GREAT function, and solid aesthetics(no cracks in the pearl, great stag, shorter tangs, and YES, for me, long clip blades, and pointy ones at that)

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[puukkoman]

Being a musician, and artist, and knifemaker/sculptor(right puukkoman? ), a have the dreaded triple whammy.

Crap. Never gonna live that one down...




......but......
Isn't there something to be said for a true artist never being quite satisfied with his work?

 

[Shing]

Many countries have a long tradition of top grade craftmanship. A visit to any large museum would have displays of incredibily accompolished Japanese and Chinese metal work and ceramics, Britain has had a long tradition of fine cutlery, firearms and watchmaking and the Germans still retain many of the areas of top quality manufacturing in optics, cars and firearms. Germans will also pay more for quality while the British seldom do.

I don't think with a few exceptions America has ever had a tradition of fine craftsmanship. America's talents was in mass production of good but not exceptional quality goods. American cars have always been good but don't compare in quality terms with German and Japanese cars.

I think Americans do well in good enough quality but with some exceptions few attain the superlative quality of other countries.

 

[Mike Robuck]

Shing,

That’s a rather broad generalization. Certainly the old cutlery companies benefited from having cutlers from Sheffield come over here, but the quality of work by New York Knife Co. early Case knives, Napanoch/Winchester, Southington, etc. was right up there.

Just because the U.S. helped kick start the Industrial Revolution doesn’t mean there weren’t quality craftsman industries here in areas such as furniture, glassware, ceramics, firearms, etc.

Being a relatively new country, we certainly don’t have the long traditions of other countries.

Heck, I’ve got some Navajo blankets that seem pretty well made if you want to go back even farther. Just my opinion.

 

[Kohai999]

I don't think with a few exceptions America has ever had a tradition of fine craftsmanship. America's talents was in mass production of good but not exceptional quality goods. American cars have always been good but don't compare in quality terms with German and Japanese cars.

Here I am trying to be all folksy and we get a huffy dude from GB insulting American craftsmanship???????WTF, over?

Shing, America has been producing a superior slipjoint folder for well over 100 years....that is enough time to be called a tradition....and this is not about cars, porcelain, Germany, Italy, England or anything other than a fair expectation that some of the CURRENT crop of superior custom craftsmen from America will reexamine thier methods of creation, and hopefully, pay increased attention to the details.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[Blues]

Gents, let's not let this thread drift into areas of politics, nationalism or other subject matter not germane to this sub-forum as it would be a shame to have to either move or close an otherwise interesting and provocative thread. Thank you.

 

[Shing]

Originally posted by Mike Robuck

Just because the U.S. helped kick start the Industrial Revolution doesn’t mean there weren’t quality craftsman industries here in areas such as furniture, glassware, ceramics, firearms, etc.

The Industrail Revolution started in Britain, a man named Samuel Slater from England immigrated to Rhode Island and started the Industrial Revolution in America using the skills and knowledge he learnt working in the cotton mills in England.

 

[Kohai999]

The Industrial Revolution started in Britain, a man named Samuel Slater from England emigrated to Rhode Island and started the Industrial Revolution in America using the skills and knowledge he learned while working in the cotton mills in England.

Excellent, fascinating....really....thanks for the history lesson.....got any insights into current custom slipjoint knife creation?

Best Regards,

Steven Garsson

 

[Blues]

The Industrail Revolution started in Britain, a man named Samuel Slater from England immigrated to Rhode Island and started the Industrial Revolution in America using the skills and knowledge he learnt working in the cotton mills in England.

Shing,

Let's move on. Fair warning. Thank you.

 

[fasteddie]

Once in a while I'm able to pick up a slipjoint from a local maker here in Texas. A couple times, I found myself asking if he can take the tip down (make the blade just a little shorter) because I would rather not have any chance of snagging the point on my pocket or anything else. With a folder, I'd rather have the tip of the blade well inside the handle than get that last fraction of an inch of blade. I've never seen a Bose knife that had a chance of snagging the tip on anything and that's the way I like it.

Oh, and..

I just measured mine... and it is 4.5" long

Yes I am 12 years old.

 

[RAN]

it was touched on earlier they are pocket knives and task specific
To be honest there is very little that cant be done with a 3 1/2 inch Blade
even a Loveless drop sports a 3 5/8 Blade
as a pocket knife I want smooth edges that are easy on the pockets and hands
and a practical size blade
look at the Mods Terry Davis did to his Stockman pattern all round all the time

 

[Shing]

I spoke to a researcher at Sheffield Hallam University about folders from current Sheffield folder makers. Her area of interest is how traditional skills can be passed on in lieu of the traditional apprenticeship system. She is also a part time knife maker. Her opinion was the knives were not made to precise tolerances and a well know custom maker did not know the type of stainless steel he was using for his blades. Having seen older Sheffield knives by Joseph Rodgers and the newer knives, I have to agree the standards have not been maintained.

 

[waynorth]

it was touched on earlier they are pocket knives and task specific
To be honest there is very little that cant be done with a 3 1/2 inch Blade
even a Loveless drop sports a 3 5/8 Blade
as a pocket knife I want smooth edges that are easy on the pockets and hands
and a practical size blade
look at the Mods Terry Davis did to his Stockman pattern all round all the time

Riad, do you have a pic of a Terry Davis stockman??

 

[RAN]

I have an old one probably early nineties knife
I'll try and snap a pic..The Davis pattern takes a little from a serpentine stockman and a little from the sowbelly..
Terry Makes a Nice One...he'll be at the Oregon show..one of the few he does.

 

[KnifeHead]

I spoke to a researcher at Sheffield Hallam University about folders from current Sheffield folder makers. Her area of interest is how traditional skills can be passed on in lieu of the traditional apprenticeship system. She is also a part time knife maker. Her opinion was the knives were not made to precise tolerances and a well know custom maker did not know the type of stainless steel he was using for his blades. Having seen older Sheffield knives by Joseph Rodgers and the newer knives, I have to agree the standards have not been maintained.

I'm not sure I understand the point you are trying to make.

Comparing J.Rodgers knives and the knives of custom knife makers is an ignorant comparison. A skilled custom knifemaker today makes the entire knife from beginning to end. Todays knives are made faster due to modern tools and processes. The tolerances of todays knives are much tighter than those of 200 years ago.

I'm sorry to be so blunt but, I think you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[RAN]

Heres my Davis Stockman 1994
Disclaimer I aint no Kerry or Vince when it comes to Photography
Thanks for giving me an excuse o pocket this one for a few days Charlie

note how rounded the pattern is makes for comfort in hand and pocket!

 

[neeman]

I did not know in a knife forum you were allowed to be blunt.
I though just staight to the point.

 

[KnifeHead]

Blunt is ok...but if you are to the point and sharp, well then someone might get cut.

 

[Thomason]

I did not know in a knife forum you were allowed to be blunt. I though just staight to the point.

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