Slipjoint users in the 1800-1900's: did they expect Fit & Finish we do?

I was thinking about this some more after the topic got bumped back up. I think to some extent modern expectations vary and are inconsistent.

As an example, most GEC knives don't have flush pins. Until GEC started making knives, that would have been considered a defect by some.... maybe some still do consider it a defect... but it's just how the GEC knives are made. As far as I am aware, the reason is a matter of convenience during manufacturing. But you'll find flush pins on other knives ranging from inexpensive RR to Case/Bose. As another example, modern Victorinox Swiss army knives don't have flush back springs. It's not really a defect. It's just how they are made. You're not going to grind the backs on a knife with anodized aluminum handles. It would take the finish off. But it's part of the manufacturing process of some knives ranging from inexpensive RR to GEC. As another example, the Buck 301 has tons of blade rub. It would be considered a defect on other knives but it's just how the Buck 301 is designed and it's still a great knife.

Back in the olden days, advertisements sometimes emphasized forged blades. A blade that wasn't forged might have been considered inferior. Today there are still some forged blades but most aren't.
 
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I'm not sure if this will be legible after it's resized on Photobucket and displayed on the screen. You might need to right click on it and open it in a new window to be able to read it.

 
supratentorial said:
I was thinking about this some more after the topic got bumped back up. I think to some extent modern expectations vary and are inconsistent.

As an example, most GEC knives don't have flush pins. Until GEC started making knives, that would have been considered a defect by some.... maybe some still do consider it a defect... but it's just how the GEC knives are made.
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I have had, probably still do, 40 year old Case and other brand knives with the same build. This is not some new anomaly to use a set size of slab pin; much less a defect. I don't like popcorn stag, it should be a defect as well. ;)
 
knifeswapper said:
I have had, probably still do, 40 year old Case and other brand knives with the same build. This is not some new anomaly to use a set size of slab pin; much less a defect. I don't like popcorn stag, it should be a defect as well. ;)
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Maybe popcorn stag is a defect for you. Send those knives to me for disposal. You can keep the nice plain stag knives. Opinions on quality are sometimes variable, somewhat subjective, and also somewhat dependent on manufacturing processes that can be different from company to company and pattern to pattern.
 
Sounds like we are in agreement. We can all decide what a defect is for ourselves, whether it has been engineered that way for decades or not - as long as we don't try and convince the maker that our fluid opinions negate their valid designs.
 
From the Joseph Rogers 1911 catalog. The employees below have worked for the company for 50 or more years.

dvb4x.jpg


The names, ages, and length of service in years:

Back row: (reading from left to right)

William Carnell - 59 - 50
John S. Dewsnap - 65 - 53
James Marsh - 67 - 53
Thomas Booth - 63 - 50
Samuel Dungworth - 68 - 54
James Platts - 64 - 50
Herbert Beardshaw - 61 - 50
Alfred Hall - 73 - 50
Arthur Swift - 65 - 52
Robert Jubb - 66 - 54
Frederick Swift - 63 - 50
A. Simpson - 63 - 51

Centre row:

Hedrick Radford - 64 - 53
William Ward (Merrill) - 65 - 55
Henry Mason - 67 - 55
James Fenton - 66 - 55
John Senior - 68 - 55
Henry Raines - 73 - 57
Benjamin Brown - 69 - 56
Charles Jerrison - 66 - 56
Mark Webster - 71 - 54
George Swift (Grinder) - 63 - 54
Frederick Parkin - 62 - 53
Herbert Styring - 70 - 58
Henry Taylor (Matthewman) - 65 - 51

Front row:

William Smith - 70 - 57
George Dickinson - 66 - 57
Henry Clark - 65 - 52
Ed. Shelton - 72 - 62
Ed. Gear - 71 - 57
John Swift - 71 - 60
Thomas Langworth - 73 - 60
William Bradwell - 71 - 61
George Swift - 71 - 60
George Swinden - 75 - 50
John Moxey - 69 - 57

n2s
 
knifeswapper said:
Sounds like we are in agreement. We can all decide what a defect is for ourselves, whether it has been engineered that way for decades or not - as long as we don't try and convince the maker that our fluid opinions negate their valid designs.
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You keep sending me perfect knives so we must agree. ;) I think we're both saying similar things.

There's a lot more transparency than there used to be. We (knife buyers/users/collectors) are a bit spoiled these days. We can watch the construction of a GEC knife from start to finish on a smart phone or laptop (there's a 3 part documentary on youtube). We can see photos of the knives as they are being produced on GEC's web page. And videos and photos after they're finished on the dealer websites.

I also like the grading systems and videos that you're doing. You've obviously put a lot of thought into the subject.
 
supratentorial said:
Back in the olden days, advertisements sometimes emphasized forged blades. A blade that wasn't forged might have been considered inferior.
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I was going to post the same earlier (got distracted), they also emphasised the quality of the steel - not always honestly either! :eek:
 
That's great Jake :D :thumbup:

supratentorial said:
I don't doubt it. If you have some fun examples, please post them.
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Even some of the biggest names in the Sheffield cutlery industry were regularly involved in fraudulent practices back in the 18th and 19th centuries, re-stamping German knives and razors for example, and if you go back even further, there were some Sheffield cutlers who stamped their knives as being made in London. Finding out these things came as quite a shock to a proud Sheffield lad like myself! :eek: ;) :D

And of course, in much more recent times, there was Imperial stealthily shipping Camillus-made blades and frames over to Sheffield to be made up as 'Made in Sheffield' Schrade-Wostenholm pocket knives. Nice knives I think, but with more genuine US provenance than Sheffield ;)
 
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