Small .22 pistol I'm thinking about

David E said:
The shotshells are MAYBE good out to 10 FEET out of that barrel.

I tried some out of the 1 5/8th's" barrel firing at the empty .22 box near my feet.......the pellets didn't penetrate both sides!

The longer barrel on the Mini-Master wouldl probably penetrate both sides, but not past 10 feet.

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David?

Interesting. I have some so maybe I'll try it and see:thumbup:
 
I've got a couple of those type of guns. You'll be lucky if you can hit anything at ten feet,much less 25 yards. Look at a Ruger MKII or Maybe a Taurus model 94.

TWBryan
 
as for shotshells, the 22 lr shotshells are fairly useless maybe just maybe they would take out a snake at 5 feet. not something i would like to try though.beyound 10 feet many a sparrow has ecaped my fooling around with them and that was out of a 4" tube. i dont know if anyone makes 22 mag. shotshells anymore?as far as a trigger job gos i took my apart one day (if you havent done this DONT)my hat would be off to the man who could hone the sear on one of these mini revolvers its a bit thicker than a pin.i guess you know by now that no one who has ever shot one of these would recomend it for a small game gun. ruger gives you the most for the money s&w gives you a better tigger out of the box . that being said if i was on the trail and hungry a rifle like the one mentioned (Scout) would be what i would want
 
AustinTXShooter said:
I have never used one of those, but I can't imagine it will be too accurate since the barrel and sight radius is so short . The vital area of small game is tiny and even most full size handguns are not accurate enough to hit a three of four inch circle at 25 yards every time. I also wonder how steady you are going to be able to hold that gun since it is so light. It may just feel like a toy and be completely unstable. I know that when I have shot smaller handguns, some of them were so light that it was impossible to hold them still.

While it isn't a pistol, the US Survival Rifle from Henry Firearms may work for you. http://www.henryrepeating.com/h002_survival.cfm I have shot one and they have good accuracy, are light enough to back pack with and fold up completely into the stock. They are the modern version of the old AR-7 Air Force Survival Rifle. I don't know how much they cost where you live, but I can find them for right around $199 and sometimes less in Texas.
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That survival .22 rifle looks EXCELLENT:thumbup: Compact, light and likely serious. If ONLY I could get my American friends to airmail me one to the EU now! It's not that this type of gun is illegal, you just can't GET an equivalent, I must get one:D and all for only 135 Euro!!
 
For most people small game at 25 yards is a hit-or-miss proposition with any pistol. If you forget that range and talk more reasonably about 10 yards an awful lot of small guns will suffice if your skill is up to it. I use one of the lightweight Smith & Wesson .22 snubnosed and have easily bagged a half dozen rabbits in an afternoon. Most shots were under 10 yards.
 
My experience with 22LR shot shells is that they should only be used when a regular 22 can't due to damage inside a building or something like that. They are pretty anemic out past 5 feet. I'd venture to say that you could shoot your leather hiking boots with little penetration into your foot and that is less than 3 feet typically. I'm not going to try that, but it emphasizes the nature of these shot shells.

As far as 22's go for camping or hiking, I really like the a 4" Colt Diamondback. The price these days make them fairly prohibitive other than for folks that are pretty comfortable financially or simply want one of the best. Colt also made a Cobra in 22LR years ago that has an aluminium frame and is a light D-frame revolver.

The Smith & Wesson Model 18 (4" K-22) would be an excellent choice if you can find one. The current Smith & Wesson 317 with the 3" barrel would be an excellent choice as well since it is very light. The old Model 34 is a great choice as well and they can be found in a snubbie version although the longer barrel would be easier to shoot.

Other than for longish hikes, I often carry a 5.5" Ruger Mark II 22 with the bull barrel, the Colt, or the Smith Model 18. I'd like to get a Smith 317 just to have one as I think they're pretty cool little revolvers. I have little experience with Taurus revolvers. I know their little 22 has a very stiff trigger which is often the case with very small revolvers due to the spring length.
 
Lots of good advice here. Your initial question has, I imagine, been answered in a number of ways but here's my $.02.

Unless you are a very, very good pistol shot, you will not survive in the wilderness with a pistol for small game hunting; get a .22 rifle for small game.
 
I just wanted to chime in and second what some others had mentioned.

First, the range on the .22 shotshell is extremely limited, even out of a rifle but especially from a pistol. They are good for nothing but extremely close range snake encounters. I don't waste time with them.

Secondly, that pistol is not practical for anything but possible self defense, and even then it's a distant choice due to it's caliber.

A Ruger Mk II/III makes a great choice. I've got the Mk III 22/45 with a 5.5" (or 6", can't recall) barrel and it has been great. Had the Mk II prior to that and it was also a good pistol. Both are amply accurate and reliable, and the synthetic frame makes it easy to pack. I don't have problems hitting game sized targets at practical ranges. As for the weight, you could try getting one of the PacLite uppers and save some ounces.

http://www.tacticalsol.com/paclites.htm

That said, if you're really looking to count on small game as your food source, a rifle is a more responsible short. Give the same man a quality pistol and a rifle, and he'll of course almost always do better with the rifle.
 
Dylside said:
The Henry Survival is the best thing I've seen so far. Very compact when broken down and easy to use.
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"There is noting new under the sun".....as for your beloved "Henry", I have one of those I bought probably before you were born! A great concept, light, reasonably accurate, but very sensitive to amunition type and failures to feed are common.

Still bigger than I want to pack around the places I go! And being a broken down rifle, to slow to get into action if you meet some nasty 2 legged critters.....

And I never said the S&W was the best survival firearm period. I did say it was the best .22 revolver.....
 
A 22 rifle is always a better choice if you actually want to hit what you are aiming at and eat. I keep thinking about Les Stroud being called the starving man here. Cracks me up!
 
If I had to have one 22 pistol for camping / backpacking / hunting, it would be a Ruger Single Six Convertible. Plenty accurate for small game, not that heavy, and gives you the option of 22mag FMJs just in case you need to shoot holes in bigger critters.

Personally, I have a S&W 18 that I like for this duty, but I normally carry a heavier pistol with it as well.
 
I agree with what has been said. Shotshells are worthless and all of the recommendations are good, though I don't think you'd be buying a Walther PP for a trail gun. When I was considering making the same purchase, I REALLY wanted the Smith 317 with a 3" barrel. Couldn't justify the price. Ended up with a Ruger Mark III. I got the 22/45 because I liked the grip better and it is much lighter.

I was given the same advice, universally, about the the NAA. I also would avoid any 2" barrel, despite the attractiveness of their compact design. I'm a pretty good (350) pistol shooter and I don't think I'd be good with a snubby at any distance whatsoever. With a 22 you are either hunting very small game or (in a survival situation) trying to make a headshot on something larger. Either way, you need to have something that is very accurate. An accurate pistol also makes plinking more fun and will therefore encourage you to shoot more and get even more accurate.

Get a 3" or 4" barrel if possible. Heck a 6" is even better and is still FAR smaller and lighter than any rifle. You'll find that a 4" Taurus or Ruger packs very well.

I too started out with a NAA Black Widow or Smith or Taurus 2" on my mind and now have the 4" Ruger--to which I have recently added a scope. I may eventually add a paclite 6" barrel to it.

Be prepared to fall in love with your 22. It just happens because you can shoot 100 or even 500 rounds in a day and not even notice the ammo cost. My wife and kids love shooting it to.

Have fun!

EDIT: I've heard pretty bad things about about the Henry Survival rifles. Apparently the removeable barrel causes accuracy issues and they are pretty finicky about ammo. If you decide to get one, hang out on Hoods Woods. He has some specifics about getting the most accuracy out of the AR7 rifles, specifically some barrel nut tightening procedure and I think some aftermarket sight options. There are some other small light rifles, like the Henry minibolt and many others that maybe more accurate than the AR7. A rifle in general is going to be far more accurate than the average pistol but you'll have to decide how much bulk you are willing to carry. The bullet velocities are also FAR higher. A .22 magnum out of a rifle can be useful in harvesting even large animlas. Also realize that a pistol is usually at hand, a slung rifle is only slightly less handy, but a disassembled AR7 or Marlin Papoose won't be useful in target of opportunity type situations. Here are a few AR7 threads: http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198155&highlight=ar7 http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158157&highlight=ar7
 
I really like my old Marlin 39a. It breaks down into two pieces and packs fairly easily. Shoots like a dream. The AR7 has always looked really neat, but every report I've heard from actual users was lukewarm at best.

One fun .22 I have is a Heritage Rough Rider SA revolver. These things get no respect, but they just work. Small, light, and it won't break my heart if it gets lost. A nicer, and pricier gun in a similar vein would be a Ruger Bearcat. Either is a fun little cowboy gun that'll shoot LR, shorts, CBs, snakeshot, etc.
 
Get ya a S&W AirLite revolver and you'll never need anything else and if you get completely impressed with it as I was you'll never even want another 22LR pistol of any make. These are the cats meow IMO. 3" barrel, 8 shots, and plenty accurate out to 25 or more yards. I've killed rats with mine farther away from me than that and that was with CB Long 22 ammo, not even the LR. I've shot all day with the little Calibre rounds, or with CB caps, or you can stick Stingers in it. It doesn't much care and will make short work of all of it. If it fits in the cylinder you can shoot it and the best part is the thing probably weighs about the same as my multi tool fully loaded.

I got rid of every other 22 Semi Auto I had in my safe after getting this one because none of those were as much fun. Most all of the semi autos in that round I have had, including BuckMarks, S&Ws, Rugers and Taurus models were fun until they got dirty and then they started screwing up, usually right in the middle of getting into things or when I least needed a chimney stack or failure to feed or eject of some other type malfunction.

If you don't get the S & W revolver get the Ruger SA model its the best of the ones I had really but they can be tricky to clean if you are not familar with them.

STR
 
I just picked up a Browning Buckmark 5.5" barreled 22 LR. It is amazingly accurate. Sitting down with my ams resting on my knees I can put a whole mag (10rds) in a paper plate at 85 yds.
 
I hate to disagree with my esteemed colleagues here and I realize that the Mini-Master is absolutely NOT an ideal hunting revolver. That aside, I've actually had pretty good luck with mine. I've reliably taken squirrel, dove and rabbit with it but never at anything like 25 yards...I doubt that I'd take that shot at a squirrel with any but the most accurate pistol.

Here's a decent review where the author managed 2" average groups with .22 WMR
http://www.naaminis.com/news43.pdf

If I really concentrate, use a steady rest, and Jupiter's moons are in perfect alignment, I can keep my 5-shot groups inside 3 to 3.5 inches at 25 yards. I've read the accounts of others and I know that my Mini-Master is the exception rather than the rule as far as accuracy goes because I'm not the greatest pistol shot in the world. In fact, my wife is rapidly becoming the best pistol shot just in my house.

This is just my woodswalking gun and only because I can't find one of the ultra rare S&W 3" stainless .22 WMR kit guns that had a second .22 LR cylinder fitted at the factory. If anybody here has one and needs a kidney or lung, let me know.

I would echo the suggestions of others here regarding a dedicated small game pistol...you can't go wrong with a Ruger pistol OR revolver.

Also an echo...rimfire shotshells are worthless for hunting unless you're stealthy enough to get within muzzle-contact distance.
 
task force k said:
I hate to disagree with my esteemed colleagues here and I realize that the Mini-Master is absolutely NOT an ideal hunting revolver. That aside, I've actually had pretty good luck with mine. I've reliably taken squirrel, dove and rabbit with it but never at anything like 25 yards...I doubt that I'd take that shot at a squirrel with any but the most accurate pistol.

Here's a decent review where the author managed 2" average groups with .22 WMR
http://www.naaminis.com/news43.pdf

If I really concentrate, use a steady rest, and Jupiter's moons are in perfect alignment, I can keep my 5-shot groups inside 3 to 3.5 inches at 25 yards. I've read the accounts of others and I know that my Mini-Master is the exception rather than the rule as far as accuracy goes because I'm not the greatest pistol shot in the world. In fact, my wife is rapidly becoming the best pistol shot just in my house.

This is just my woodswalking gun and only because I can't find one of the ultra rare S&W 3" stainless .22 WMR kit guns that had a second .22 LR cylinder fitted at the factory. If anybody here has one and needs a kidney or lung, let me know.

I would echo the suggestions of others here regarding a dedicated small game pistol...you can't go wrong with a Ruger pistol OR revolver.

Also an echo...rimfire shotshells are worthless for hunting unless you're stealthy enough to get within muzzle-contact distance.
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That's interesting. I've never shot mine off of a rest.
 
reconranger said:
"There is noting new under the sun".....as for your beloved "Henry", I have one of those I bought probably before you were born! A great concept, light, reasonably accurate, but very sensitive to amunition type and failures to feed are common.

Still bigger than I want to pack around the places I go! And being a broken down rifle, to slow to get into action if you meet some nasty 2 legged critters.....

And I never said the S&W was the best survival firearm period. I did say it was the best .22 revolver.....
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Maybe you took some sort of offense to the way I responded. I certainly didn't mean any. As far as "before i was born", that line only works on teenagers and college students. I'm a grown up. Saying that now only means you're old. Let's just keep it friendly. I'm not the kind of guy who gets on forums looking to start crap.

If I were to run into any 2-legged or any other animals that made me defend myself or a loved one, I don't think I'd be using a .22 of any kind. I'm pretty sure that they would meet their end by the Springfield.

As for the Henry being a jamming monster and selective of ammo, I persoanlly haven't had any trouble with it. It might be that i just got the only good one. Either way, there are a lot of options out there. To tell you the truth, I didn't even know that everyone was having trouble with them. Since I never had a problem, I never bothered to research their flaws. I've always kept about a 2" grouping with mine open sights at about 20-25 yards. That's close enough for me to touch pretty much any animals I go after with it. Jamming has never been a problem because I never shoot more than a mag at a time out of it and always clean it ASAP.
 
hollowdweller said:
That's interesting. I've never shot mine off of a rest.
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Try it, you'll like it. I've never understood the skepticism surrounding the Mini-Master...it's got a four-inch barrel with a recessed target crown, high visibility adjustable sights, a full size grip...the only real difference between it and any other gun with these attributes is the funky trigger and that CAN be mastered.

I think that a lot of people equate it with the true mini-revolvers, with their extremely abbreviated barrels and next-to-useless sights...those have their place as backup-backup-backup guns and they fill that role admirably. Even the two-inch barreled Black Widow is better than that, though. Check out this clip:

http://www.naaminis.com/naavid02.html
 
I have 3 NAA mini-revolvers, 2 in .22 Magnum and 1 in .22 LR. I consider all of them to be strictly for close range use, say about 10 feet maximum. As somebody else here said, these are intended as a last resort self defense option, and that's only at conversational distances. I would say killing snakes up to maybe 5 feet using shot cartridges would be an acceptable use for them, too. NAA sells a nice accessory now for about $35, some oversize wood grips that give the gun sort of a western sixgun look and gives the shooter more to hold onto. I have some on one of my .22 Magnums.

For taking small game and general camp and trail use you will be light years ahead to get a small S&W .22 revolver (read: a Kit Gun), a similar Taurus .22 revolver, a Ruger .22 Bearcat, a Ruger .22 Single-Six, or a Ruger .22 Mark III (or earlier versions of their automatic). The Bearcat is an excellent small trail gun that is rugged and compact. If you happen to get an older Ruger single action revolver, as I have, be sure it has either been converted to a transfer bar ignition for safety reasons at the Ruger factory or else you clearly understand how to properly manage an old style single action. That means the older ones must be carried with only 5 rounds in the cylinder and the hammer let down carefully on the empty 6th chamber. The rule is "Pull hammer to half cock, open loading gate, load 1, skip 1, load 4, pull hammer to full cock, then lower it carefully." If you do that correctly you should end with the hammer resting on an empty chamber. Ruger single actions are probably the most rugged trail guns you can carry.
 
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