Small .22 pistol I'm thinking about

[task force k]

Oh no, didn't mean the post to sound defensive/argumentative if it did. Just wanted to share my thoughts on that aspect of the discussion more clearly. Wasn't trying to start anything.

No, not at all defensive or argumentative. I just wanted to make certain that it is well known that I'm not looking for an argument. I come here to learn, joke, and sometimes, if I'm very lucky, put out some new information.

If I wanted an argument, I'd call my ex-wife and make fun of her girlfriend.

 

[David E]

For me, personal responsibility means a lot.

IE; I won't rely on others for my personal safety.

I'm aware that some people have hiked for years without a gun OR a knife and came back fine.

And, in a perfect world or on a perfect hiking/camping trip, you'd never need them.

But some bad things DO happen in the woods. In fact, the rate of assaults/rapes/attacks by people in the wild is increasing. This is due to several reasons, but primary among them is, there IS NO 911 IN THE WOODS ! Which means evil people can act with impunity.

Which brings me back to: I won't rely on others for my personal safety.

I stated earlier that I won't compromise on items that might make the difference between coming back or not. For example, while I could knap a "blade" out of rock, that's far from my first choice for a knife. So I take a good knife with me.

And not all equipment is created equal. I once had a pocket survival kit that had a "folding saw" that broke in sections as I tried to unfold it for the first time. Sure glad I didn't find that out while in the field.

I find many people make the argument that "a gun is a gun is a gun..." meaning that ANY gun will do. Rarely is that true. I remember articles stating that a 2" .38 snubby is the ideal trail gun because it's so light, small, etc. Yes, it did everything well......except hit what most people wanted/needed to hit with it.

A NAA Mini-Master for defense is, well...........optimistic at best.

While I might be able to do the Captain Kirk thing of finding the raw ingredients I need to make gunpowder to kill a hostile Gorn, I'd rather take a quality firearm instead.

There have been several times where I was glad I had a gun with me. I never had to show it to the other people, but they sensed that moving on would be a good idea.

Now, I have used it to bag dinner more than once

So, if you don't feel the need to ever carry a gun afield, that's fine by me. I hope that you never find you really, really need it on your next trip.

 

[task force k]

For me, personal responsibility means a lot.

IE; I won't rely on others for my personal safety.

I'm aware that some people have hiked for years without a gun OR a knife and came back fine.

And, in a perfect world or on a perfect hiking/camping trip, you'd never need them.

But some bad things DO happen in the woods. In fact, the rate of assaults/rapes/attacks by people in the wild is increasing. This is due to several reasons, but primary among them is, there IS NO 911 IN THE WOODS ! Which means evil people can act with impunity.

Which brings me back to: I won't rely on others for my personal safety.

I stated earlier that I won't compromise on items that might make the difference between coming back or not. For example, while I could knap a "blade" out of rock, that's far from my first choice for a knife. So I take a good knife with me.

And not all equipment is created equal. I once had a pocket survival kit that had a "folding saw" that broke in sections as I tried to unfold it for the first time. Sure glad I didn't find that out while in the field.

I find many people make the argument that "a gun is a gun is a gun..." meaning that ANY gun will do. Rarely is that true. I remember articles stating that a 2" .38 snubby is the ideal trail gun because it's so light, small, etc. Yes, it did everything well......except hit what most people wanted/needed to hit with it.

A NAA Mini-Master for defense is, well...........optimistic at best.

While I might be able to do the Captain Kirk thing of finding the raw ingredients I need to make gunpowder to kill a hostile Gorn, I'd rather take a quality firearm instead.

There have been several times where I was glad I had a gun with me. I never had to show it to the other people, but they sensed that moving on would be a good idea.

Now, I have used it to bag dinner more than once

So, if you don't feel the need to ever carry a gun afield, that's fine by me. I hope that you never find you really, really need it on your next trip.

I'm not advocating not carrying a gun into the woods and I'm not advocating the Mini-Master for defense or even as particularly suited for fantastic hunting. I've simply stated that when I go woods wandering, I drop it into my pocket and occasionally use it to render edible one of God's little furry, tasty critters (mainly because Gorn taste awful).

I think that there's been a miscommunication. My response to you earlier was essentially "what do you carry when going out and have you ever had occasion to use it". I thought there might be an interesting story there. As stated, repeatedly, I'm not looking for arguments nor do I see myself as qualified to tell anybody what they should carry.

Certainly, were I heading into bear country or "Beyond Thunderdome", I would carry something more suitable to that environment.

Why can't we all just get along?

 

[hollowdweller]

I'm not advocating not carrying a gun into the woods and I'm not advocating the Mini-Master for defense or even as particularly suited for fantastic hunting. I've simply stated that when I go woods wandering, I drop it into my pocket and occasionally use it to render edible one of God's little furry, tasty critters (mainly because Gorn taste awful).

I think that there's been a miscommunication. My response to you earlier was essentially "what do you carry when going out and have you ever had occasion to use it". I thought there might be an interesting story there. As stated, repeatedly, I'm not looking for arguments nor do I see myself as qualified to tell anybody what they should carry.

Certainly, were I heading into bear country or "Beyond Thunderdome", I would carry something more suitable to that environment.

Why can't we all just get along?

That was pretty much my point. Big guns are heavy. Needed maybe if you were in dangerous territory, but I actually feel much safer in the wilderness than I do on the road or in the city where I work so I try to balance my still wanting to have some sort of gun in the woods with me vs my practical considerations of not carrying a lot of heavy stuff and never having encountered any times when I needed it.

 

[David E]

I think that there's been a miscommunication.

Perhaps.

I didn't think my post was confrontational or anything else that might start an argument. It sure wasn't intended to be.

Certainly my Gorn example showed some humor !!!

.

 

[David E]

I suppose the real question should be: "Why do you carry a gun afield?"

That would make the answers/reasons better.

.

 

[Foilist]

I have a Ramline Syntec Exactor, anyone ever hear of these? This was a cheap, unusual .22 semi-auto pistol that was available for a short time in the early 1990's. It resembles a Ruger Mark II a little, but is made out of Zytel or something and weighs about 20 oz. It has a four inch barrel and 15 round mag. A skillful pistolero (not me) can shoot it accurately to 25 yards. a single allen screw and pin hold it together, so it breaks down easily.

I got it as a gift years ago. I don't particularly like it but it fits the criteria of the original post, and I guess it has a small following. I don't know how easy/hard they are to find anymore.

 

[Fieldtestornothing]

I just picked up a Ruger 22/45 with a 4" barrel for 209.00, brand new. You could shoot it at 25' all day long and hit every time.

Yep. Ruger Mark II with a tactical Solutions barrel is awesome. Very accurate and light.

 

[David E]

If you're going to carry a gun afield, then it only makes sense to carry one that will accomplish the task you're needing/wanting a gun for.

"Any gun" will not necessarily do.

If your main reason is defense on the trail, man or beast, then it's silly (stupid?) to take a Baby Browning .25 acp and think you're "covered" because you simply have a gun.

Likewise, if your goal is to procure small game for the pot, then taking an inaccurate or difficult to shoot gun will bring you more frustration than stew.

.

 

[Shotgun]

Wow I've been off the puter a few days and I get 4 pages. Thanks for the replies. I carry a 4 inch S&W 686 when I think I'm going to be around a lot of 2 legged critters. I think I might look into the 317. I like them but the price is a little high. Maybe when I get my tax refund next year. Thanks again.

 

[Jeff Clark]

I would rather have a baby Browning .25 ACP than no gun at all. In fact I have used a .22 short Astra Cub and a .22 LR Mercury vest pocket automatic quite successfully to shoot rabbits and squirrels. Either one of those is more accurate than a bow in the hands of a comparative novice. Pick the best gun that you can reasonably carry in the circumstances but don't think that any gun is too crude...Well there was one exception. A friend of mine picked up a used .32 auto once that was so bad that it shot about 3 foot low at 5 yards. Your choice of gun for survival doesn't have the sportsmanlike requirement for instantaneous one-shot-kill that your hunting rifle selection would have.

 

[David E]

I would rather have a baby Browning .25 ACP than no gun at all. In fact I have used a .22 short Astra Cub and a .22 LR Mercury vest pocket automatic quite successfully to shoot rabbits and squirrels.

The point wasn't "a .25 or nothing," as that's an entirely different angle to this topic.

But would you take one of those firearms as your ONLY GUN by choice to act as your survival/defense gun???

Would you rely on one for "defense against man or beast" willingly? Do you think it'll stop a mountain lion, black bear, a wild pack of dogs or even a rabid skunk charging you erratically ? What about a band of armed and stoned pot-smoking, pot growing hippies that arent' happy with you stumbling upon their crop in the National Forest?

Your choice of gun for survival doesn't have the sportsmanlike requirement for instantaneous one-shot-kill that your hunting rifle selection would have.

"Survival" is but one reason why some choose to carry a gun. Other folks consider personal defense ahead of survival. The better choices for these two reasons are generally two different types of guns or calibers.

.

 

[Jeff Clark]

If the likelihood of running into a gang or a bear in the wilds gets high enough that I start worrying about which caliber I should pack I don't go there. Eminent danger of that magnitude is not sufficiently mitigated by carrying a big gun that it is sensible to be there.

If there is an off-chance that I might run into some unexpected situation I pack to balance my risks. Here in the Rockies I pack a coat and a lighter (for warmth) as my most critical survival needs. I pack a cell phone (though it is unlikely to be in range). I pack a SAK for general needs. If I pack a gun it is #1 as a noise making device and #2 for small game hunting needs. If it is fall and there may be bears out there it might tip the scales on my gun selection. It's not an optimum choice, but I might pack my Browning Hi Power since it is available and reasonably light, otherwise I would just go with a .22. I wouldn't intentionally get in the way of a black bear with less than my .270 or 12 gauge so I expect to be working in bear avoidance mode. When hunting I always pack auto flares and bear spray as a deterrent.

 

[David E]

If I could foretell the future, I'd know where not to go also !

No one I know schedules an emergency.

When one strikes, it's a "run what ya brung" kind of deal, for better or worse.

This makes the equipment choices all the more critical.

To amplify one of my earlier points, not just "any knife" or "any gun" will necessarily do. IE; perform the function or perform it to the level any given situation, planned or otherwise, may require.

.

 

[bacman99]

For that price, I think you could hire a professional hunter for a few hours to kill everything within a 10 mile radius and you could pay someone to clean and cook it all for you. Might even be able to afford someone to chew it for you.

Now thats funny!!

 

[nemoaz]

I carry a 4 inch S&W 686 when I think I'm going to be around a lot of 2 legged critters.

I'm sure I'm not telling you anything that you don't already know, but perhaps others do not. A 357 isn't a bad choice for all around carry. Load it with full power magnums for people or medium sized game, hard, heavy bullet in a magnum load for bear (minimal but better than a stick or a knife for sure), and a 38 standard pressure or low velocity target round with wadcutters or round nose for bunnies and squirrels.

I could buy a lot of 38 wadcutter for the price of a SW 317. The 686 is heavy though.

 

[fudo]

I'm sure I'm not telling you anything that you don't already know, but perhaps others do not. A 357 isn't a bad choice for all around carry. Load it with full power magnums for people or medium sized game, hard, heavy bullet in a magnum load for bear (minimal but better than a stick or a knife for sure), and a 38 standard pressure or low velocity target round with wadcutters or round nose for bunnies and squirrels.

I could buy a lot of 38 wadcutter for the price of a SW 317. The 686 is heavy though.

There are lots of S&W 19's, Ruger Security sixes and the like around used that won't break the bank. I think that Nemoaz has the best advise here. Medium caliber, medium weight, flexibility in power.

 

[superduty truck]

Get a 386 even though firing full mags loads is hell (for some) after a few cylinders full. As for a .22LR I carry a 617 with a 4" barrel, heavy a little. I am 6'1" and weigh in a full 350 lbs, so size and weight is not a matter unless it is small guns in my big paws. Taurus 94 and 941 are good, and reasonable priced. For a new Taurus you can get a used Smith. All my Smiths are used along with my Taurus 92 and 85. My wife has a sp101 and loves it. I do not like the heavy double action pull (over a Smith or Taurus) but she does, go figure. I traded a second new PT92 for my lastest 686+ a little used revolver. Naa are good as "have nothing else and this has to do" firearms. Stick with 4" or 5" barrel pistol. But if a 2" snub nose is what you want go with either a Smith, Ruger (sp101, they made a few 22LR a time ago) or Taurus. Taurus are ok and will do the job, but I'm a big fan of Smith due to 1. American made, 2. Springfield MA and 3. More aftermarket parts availble. Ruger are made in either CT or AZ and most Taurus are made in Brazil. The PT22 and PT 25 are made in Fla. I favor revolvers over auto due to easy and ablity to keep ready for action. Relabilty of auto have greatly inproved over the years but still more moving parts = better change to fail.

 

[Fieldtestornothing]

There are lots of S&W 19's, Ruger Security sixes and the like around used that won't break the bank. I think that Nemoaz has the best advise here. Medium caliber, medium weight, flexibility in power.

My .02 is that this is absolutely correct. Without taking a dedicated anything in particual for hunting or 'defense' or game taking ect... I find a strong argument for an inexpensive versitile cartridge. In the woods I carry a Ruger Security Six. I feel that it suits lots of different 'purposes' well in one compact reliable unit that I am simply not scared to scratch, wade through water with or whatever. I am a big fan of .357 for its long range capibilities over other cartridges in the pistol family with the exception of the .41 and .44mags which I believe are superior but not wallet friendly. (I reload .357 and my wife would kill me if I started reloading another cartridge.)

Perhaps I could input something about the Taurus 9 shot revolver. Or Taurus in General. I honestly believe that they are absolute garbage. I have traded for 3 over the years and they are the ONLY firearms that I have ever had break. That simple. I know lots of people like them, but I warn you not to trust your life to it.

Like I said just my .02

 

[hollowdweller]

Just for the fun of it I thought I would take my mini master out and try to hit a "squirrel" target offhand at 15 yards.

The squirrel is actually chimpmunk size if you look. It's an 8.5 x 11 sheet.

I also shot a shotshell at 15 yards.

I warmed up with 50 rounds. I forgot what a stiff trigger this gun has. I find it very hard to pull the trigger and hold it on there because of the small grip. I hadn't shot this gun for about a month and I forgot how much getting used to it takes

Anyway here is the target with the shotshell on it too. I hit it a few times. Even missed the paper a five out of 15 times.

Here's both Squirrel targets. Since I shot the mini master first I shot a target with it last too, which is the one on the left

I think I could hit a squirrel at 15 yards, but I'd rather have it be 10 yards with a rest