Smoother than Chris Reeves?

[Peter Hartwig]

Sorry if this is off topic, but what makes a knife a "flipper" as this conversation is pertaining to knives that flip open smoothly yet are not called flippers. Would my zt0450 be classified as a flipper? Thats the smoothest knife i habe and it beats out my benchmade 940 hands down for smoothe open and closing, the action is just fantastic. Although ive never felt anything on the high end scale, in comparison to some spydercos and other less expensive knives the 0450 is by far my favorite action, but again. I dont know if it qualifies as a flipper or not.

Flipper as refered here is the opening mechanism. Options I can think of are disk, thumb stud, spydie hole(or equivalent), flipper-tab on botttom of blade that protrudes from the scale when closed, and autos and wave-there are a couple more, but I can't remember proper names. He wants a non-flipper which I would say is the disk, thumb stud or spydie hole. Though I guess one could say the wave and autos are non-flippers, but I wouldn't add them. Post 34 is a flipper
Hope that makes some sense.

 

[Mick_1KRR]

Shirogorov have the same tolerances but the OP doesn’t want flippers so I didn’t bring them up

Dismantled and inspected shiros, great knives but they don't have CRK level fit. You hardly need any tolerances on bearing knives other than good machining of the scales and blade so they have good centering. Bearings are easy to wack in and tighten while maintaining smoothness. Even cheap ZT's on bearings have great machining and perfect centering, no different to shiros really in the tolerance dept. Dismantle and inspect the Seb21, Umnumzaan and Inkosi up close, they really are put together to a extremely high standard. Even the inkosi with the pivot screw out has zero blade play and that doesn't even use the bushing like the Seb 21.

 

[Alberta Ed]

Buck Custom Shop 112, Spyderco Para 2 and Military all are extremely smooth. A dab of BreakFree CLP helps.

 

[BD_01]

Flipper as refered here is the opening mechanism. Options I can think of are disk, thumb stud, spydie hole(or equivalent), flipper-tab on top of blade that protrudes from the scale, and autos and wave-there are a couple more, but I can't remember proper names. He wants a non-flipper which would be the disk, thumb stud or spydie hole. Post 34 is a flipper
Hope that makes some sense.

Hey ReservoirDog707 I would also add that most (if not all) the knives discussed in this thread use washers for the pivot mechanism like your 940. The 0450 uses bearings, as do the seeming majority of production flippers (for whatever reason).

The 0450 is a sweet knife, BTW. It’s the gateway knife that brought me into obcession, subsequently costing me countless hours wasted on Bladeforums and more money than I dare think about! Be careful!

In addition to a knife stlyle like the 0450, the term “flipper” is also tossed around as a semi-pejorative for folks that snatch up knives (often limited production) solely to sell on an inflated secondary market for a profit. (Sorry, I’m going further into the weeds.)

Belated welcome to Bladeforums too!

Sorry guys. Back on topic.....

 

[ReservoirDog707]

Flipper as refered here is the opening mechanism. Options I can think of are disk, thumb stud, spydie hole(or equivalent), flipper-tab on botttom of blade that protrudes from the scale when closed, and autos and wave-there are a couple more, but I can't remember proper names. He wants a non-flipper which I would say is the disk, thumb stud or spydie hole. Though I guess one could say the wave and autos are non-flippers, but I wouldn't add them. Post 34 is a flipper
Hope that makes some sense.

I think i get it, so its any knives in which theres anan easy to use flipping mechanism such as a tab or stud. Would that mean the 940 axis lock is not considered a flipper? Such a strange category i never considered any folding knofe to be a non flipper until i read this thread

 

[ReservoirDog707]

Hey ReservoirDog707 I would also add that most (if not all) the knives discussed in this thread use washers for the pivot mechanism like your 940. The 0450 uses bearings, as do the seeming majority of production flippers (for whatever reason).

The 0450 is a sweet knife, BTW. It’s the gateway knife that brought me into obcession, subsequent costing me countless hours wasted on Bladeforums and more money than I dare think about! Be careful!

In addition to a knife stlyle like the 0450, the term “flipper” is also tossed around as a semi-pejorative for folks that snatch up knives (often limited production) solely to sell on an inflated secondary market for a profit. (Sorry, I’m going further into the weeds.)

Belated welcome to Bladeforums too!

Sorry guys. Back on topic.....

Ahhh now theres something more concrete to grasp onto so flippers generally are made differently, not just by the additional tab or stud, but by using bearings to swing quicker and easier awsome with those two posts i think i understand! Thanks guys! Now i want a non flipper
Tha ks for the warm welcome btw!

 

[mr2blue]

I find my Fantoni knives to be super smooth and the highest quality knives I have per dollar paid. I have a David Mosier custom that is like butter but I paid quite a bit more. To me it kind of depends on price. At a certain point I find diminishing returns in terms of quality.

As a previous poster mentioned. I also have great love for Gayle Bradley’s 1& 2 and sweet Gayle Bradley custom.

Hell....
I just love knives.

 

[ReservoirDog707]

I find my Fantoni knives to be super smooth and the highest quality knives I have per dollar paid. I have a David Mosier custom that is like butter but I paid quite a bit more. To me it kind of depends on price. At a certain point I find diminishing returns in terms of quality.

As a previous poster mentioned. I also have great love for Gayle Bradley’s 1& 2 and sweet Gayle Bradley custom.

Hell....
I just love knives.

For knives like this is there a price threshold where you can get the buttery smoothe action? Like whats the price point where knives start to become top notch smoothe, i dont want to waste a couple hundred bucks on a knife when another 100 could make the difference between good and great. Ive not had any experience with this type of knife but im intrigued

 

[Aquaholicc]

Dismantled and inspected shiros, great knives but they don't have CRK level fit. You hardly need any tolerances on bearing knives other than good machining of the scales and blade so they have good centering. Bearings are easy to wack in and tighten while maintaining smoothness. Even cheap ZT's on bearings have great machining and perfect centering, no different to shiros really in the tolerance dept. Dismantle and inspect the Seb21, Umnumzaan and Inkosi up close, they really are put together to a extremely high standard. Even the inkosi with the pivot screw out has zero blade play and that doesn't even use the bushing like the Seb 21.

Hmm I own a Hati on polished bushings and I’ve got to say it feels like the things rides on bearings without the hassle. Not to mention it falls shut. I’d like to believe it’s built better than any ZT I’ve owned or handled.

 

[Mick_1KRR]

Hmm I own a Hati on polished bushings and I’ve got to say it feels like the things rides on bearings without the hassle. Not to mention it falls shut. I’d like to believe it’s built better than any ZT I’ve owned or handled.

I'm sure the Hati is finished better and built with closer attention to detail in machining than most ZT's, my comment was more directed at the tolerances needed for bearings, as they are the same on a ZT compared to a Shiro. Knives aren't really reliant on super tight tolerances when it comes to a bearing type bushing, bearings allow you to crank down more while still having a smooth action.

 

[mr2blue]

Try a fantoni Hide which new are about $260 i bought one used for $150.

 

[Sonnydaze]

My most-appreciated folder for "smoothness" was on old Classic CRK. Loved it. My Zaan is smooth; the Regular is smooth...My Spyderco Slysz Bowie is very, very nice.
Personal taste, etc.

 

[Aquaholicc]

I'm sure the Hati is finished better and built with closer attention to detail in machining than most ZT's, my comment was more directed at the tolerances needed for bearings, as they are the same on a ZT compared to a Shiro. Knives aren't really reliant on super tight tolerances when it comes to a bearing type bushing, bearings allow you to crank down more while still having a smooth action.

Yeah, I guess it seemed like you made the assumption my Hati was on bearings so I felt the need to clarify that’s all.

 

[Mick_1KRR]

Yeah, I guess it seemed like you made the assumption my Hati was on bearings so I felt the need to clarify that’s all.

All good mate, the Hati is a great knife, it's the only Shiro i've ever considered buying due to the lack of bearings.

 

[abcdef]

Alox saks are manual. All of mine are very smooth opening. Put a little oil in there and - silk.

 

[BTGuy]

Try a well made backlock knife. May not be considered "smooth" in that they won't usually flick open or fall shut closed, but can have a really consistent feeling when opening due to how the blade is kept closed by tension rather than a detent ball (no hitch like when overcoming detent ball). I consider my well-used Spyderco Native 5 to be as smooth as my Sebenza.

 

[Mikel_24]

I don't have any knife with bearings so for me it has to be my Para2 or Minigrip.

BTW, I know that talking about tolerances is so inn lately but... Does everyone who talks tolerances really know what are they talking about? Or what could be considered tight tolerances? Or DESIRED tolerances?

Unless you have a machinist background, I would suggest to whatch a certain YouTube video from a semi-custom posted lately in this forum which solely talks about tolerances. Sorry, cannot find it right now.

 

[SV-97]

Fox Knives Terzuola; imo all around a better knife than CRKs (one can argue about the bladesteel).

 

[emjay4248]

In reference to smooth deployment, the CRK is amazing but it does not have the snap that I to like. IMHO the top position for smoothness is no longer held by CRK. I have $30.00 knives that have equal smoothness and a very satisfying snap but I will admit that the CRK has the most amazing tolerances.
Their are now so many knives that equal or surpass CRK's action we must remember that CR was the pioneer of perfection in fit and finish and still that way today. Much of the machinery that he had used was designed by him so that he could reach that level of perfection but now due to the availability of state of the art machinery, many other companies are now making knives with the same standards of fit and finish but as mentioned in this thread their are many types of action, all excellent but different.

We can credit CRK for pushing the envelope of Fit and finish and also taking the direction of function over form. First came mechanical perfection and then came the design and ergonomics. The problem AISI is that CRK did not move forward in design, like the Inkosi looking just like the Sebenza it has replaced. Their are few that can afford to collect CRK's but will have a few Benchmades and Spyderco's in there collection but have only have one Sebbie

I had bought a large Seb 21 from a friend who was eager to make me understand all the hype about the action on the CRK I kept it and could not get used to the hydraulic fluid action when opened with wrist action.
I prefer the action of a Spyderco PM2 or GB2. I sold it in short order to a friend who wanted to feel the CRK perform, he too sold it after about 2 months.I have the Kizer
SLT all Ti and it has similar action to the Seb but can be adjusted to a bit snappier feel when opening the knife.
Their is nothing wrong with the feel of the Seb and I know that this intentional but it was not for me.

In conclusion the Sebbie has fantastic feel for someone who likes that type of action but their are so many other knives that feel as good such as the ZT 0452 Steel Will Gekko that for me it is difficult to justify paying $400 and up for a knife that does not float my boat.

 

[Lapedog]

Ahhh now theres something more concrete to grasp onto so flippers generally are made differently, not just by the additional tab or stud, but by using bearings to swing quicker and easier awsome with those two posts i think i understand! Thanks guys! Now i want a non flipper
Tha ks for the warm welcome btw!

No a flipper is a specific type of opening mechanism like a thumb stud or spydie hole. Some flipper knives have flippers and thumb studs, but in order to be a flipper a knife has to have a flipper tab.

Here is a picture of a knife with a flipper tab. (This knife also has a Spydie hole). The little tab my pointer finger is on is the flipper tab. A knife that has one of these is considered a flipper. Flipper tabs don’t always look exactly the same but they all involve you pushinf the blade out from the back of the knife like this.

Pushing in the flipper tab causes the blade to kick out like this.

There is a rarer type called front flipper. The little tab at the top of this knife is a front flipper tab. Again not all front flipper tabs look the same as this. But they all involve a similar action.

This is how a front flipper works.

What you were describing is a “flicker” knife which isn’t as tightly defined a term as flipper or front flipper. A flicker knife is one where when opening you give the opening device (be it thumbstud, flipper tab or spydie hole) a hard push the blade shoots the rest of the way open. Pretty much every flipper knife is also a “flicker” due to the fact the tab dissapears into the handle as seen in picture number two.

This is opposite a knife like a Sebenza where you are supposed to slowly thumb the blade open applying force through the entire arc of travel of the blade opening. Technically many knives like the sebenza that are supposed to be “slowly” opened like this can be flicked open with some practice or break in time. That is why I say a flicker knife is not a tightly defined catagory like a flipper is.