So...does anyone else hate patinas? :)

I've found over the years that I prefer carbon - and that if I don't force a patina I'm going to have rust problems later. My perspiration seems to be somewhat corrosive and my knife maintenance habits a bit lax. I enjoy sharpening my knives but find that just a couple of days letting a fingerprint sit will mark the steel. I let a natural patina develop on a Tidioute toothpick and I just forced a patina (with hot vinegar) on a NF Calf Roper (my new EDC) - they look almost the same to me. The polished NF steel takes a slightly different patina than the "rough" steel of the Tidioute. Either way they're now "pocket safe" for me.
 
Why limited? 99% of the GEC I see for sale are not SS, there seems to be a purposeful imbalance. I can't understand why.
I usually buy SS blades, but I have a few carbon blades. I put a vinegar patina on most. I like patina's to look even, not like rust has been brushed off.
 
So I ask, would this be considered a patina?





In my mind I don't really think of a blued finish as a patina per se...
 
IMO, if the coating is produced by a chemical reaction involving the blade steel, it is a patina.
 
I love a nicely finished shiny blade but I also love a nice patina. The folks talking about it taking a year or more for a natural patina to start don't use their knives the same as I do!!!

I've had patinas set in immediately without food prep. Love them or hate them who really cares. Do what you want is my opinion.

Want a real patina? Use your knife for anything bloody, use your knife on green wood and for any type of landscaping, take your knife out to sea and use it, put it in your pocket and go mountain biking on a 100 degree 90 percent humidity day. Sure, if I put tuffcloth on my blades and put my knife in my pocket at the office the patina will take a while.

Honest use equals an honest patina.

Kevin
 
Frank could explain how even grey and black "patina" is still rust.

I believe the red rust is Fe2O3

Black rust is Fe3O4

Also Frank explained Fe3O4 will come with a lack of oxygen.

I could be repeating this wrong it was a while ago Frank explained this to me and this is NOT my specialty.

Frank please correct me if I'm wrong.

Kevin
Stelth said:
That makes rust a patina.
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No preference here; Use them as you like and what comes will come. I wonder, does a patina on steel provide any rust resistance?
 
Stelth said:
...and me, as well. The two GECs I own are both 440.
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If anyone is listening I agree with this. It's the only reason I shy away from most of GECs patterns.
 
Stelth said:
That makes rust a patina.
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"patina" is a subset of "rust". Not the other way around.

All "patina" can be considered "rust", but not all "rust" is "patina".
 
I just go stainless. The three carbon blades I have a darned nightmare to keep up with. Currently preparing to force patinas on all three.

So no, I don't hate them :)
 
I'm not sure I understand what the issue is - isn't a patina normal on a non-stainless blade?
 
richstag said:
Frank could explain how even grey and black "patina" is still rust.

I believe the red rust is Fe2O3

Black rust is Fe3O4

Also Frank explained Fe3O4 will come with a lack of oxygen.

I could be repeating this wrong it was a while ago Frank explained this to me and this is NOT my specialty.

Frank please correct me if I'm wrong.

Kevin
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Both are oxides of iron, which means oxygen must be present to form both. Red rust happens with an iron + oxygen reaction in the presence of moisture (rust is sometimes called a 'hydrated' iron oxide for this reason), and black oxide 'patina' only needs iron + oxygen to form. The compound known as rust (the real, red variety) occupies more physical space than the elements which formed it; therefore it fractures/sloughs off and leaves pitting, therefore destructively 'eating the steel'. The naturally-occurring black oxide produced by the iron-oxygen reaction only (minus the moisture) does not do this, but instead becomes integral to the steel's surface. That layer of oxide on the surface is what reduces or slows the iron's reactivity (underneath the oxide) to further corrosion.

Forced patinas using acids do similar damage as with water-induced corrosion (bringing hydrogen into the mix). But, at least when done under controlled circumstances, and the acid adequately neutralized afterwards (baking soda works), they still will leave some protective black oxide behind.

This is why I've never liked the too-vague and misleading association of black iron oxide with 'rust' (implying destruction of the steel). Most who hear the term 'rust' in association with 'steel' assume very bad things happening. That is deceptive, when the 'rust' moniker is universally applied to other non-destructive oxides of iron. Not all oxides of iron behave this way (destructively), and some industry relies on the protective properties of iron oxides to help protect steels from corrosion, in certain applications. Lots of info in this regard from steel manufacturers on the web.


David
 
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jhefner82 said:
showphoto.php


Tell me you don't like that. All forced and hardly used. My safe queen
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Stelth said:
I'd probably tell you that if I could see the picture.
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Obsessed with Edges said:
Ditto. Picture isn't viewable within the post, at least on my system (Win7 & Chrome notebook). The linked URL doesn't seem compatible with the
tags enclosing it (no pic file format specified in the url, be it .jpg, .png, .bmp or whatever).
Click to expand...

image10.jpg


"Finish was stripped and had a patina forced with grapefruit."

Personally I like a nice patina, though my favourite carbon blade refuses to take one for some reason. I'm not complaining, it just seems odd.
 
Stelth said:
That makes rust a patina.
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You're right, which means my definition is deficient. I disagree with the idea that rust & patina are the same. They are both forms of oxidation, & there are a large number of oxidative processes iron can undergo.

I still stand by my definition as far as blueing is concerned: the question is; is it a chemical reaction involving the steel, or is it just a coating physically applied.

Edit: I agree with Obsessed with edges comment above.
Herehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron(II,III)_oxideis a link to dark grey patina

Here are links to rust, which is an ill defined mess.http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&r...Y8dmpoT-9ViF3IQx6fB7YaQ&bvm=bv.48705608,d.aGc
and herehttp:
 
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Don't like a Blade that looks dirty and 99% of mine are Safe Queens and the ones that I do carry are cleaned and kept as new as the day I got it.!** Get a scratch or anything I can't fix it is sold or donated to whoever.! Same way with all my Guns ~~ clean as the day I got them and I have a few over 40 years old ~~ plus I keep the boxes and everything that came with the Knife & Gun also.! As the saying goes ~~ cleanlyness is next to ********.!!
 
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