So, how many of you smiths can get by on just a press?

Phillip Patton

Phillip Patton

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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Jul 25, 2005
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The title should read "So, how many of you smiths can get by on just a press?" :rolleyes:

I'm asking because my power hammer is so high maintenance, (a valve quit working friday, so now the hammerhead is defying Newton's Laws, and is going up but not coming down. Also, the motor on the compressor which powers the air hammer quit working sometime this weekend. Won't start.) and I'd been toying around with the idea of building a press anyway.

So, can a press easily do things like reducing stock quickly, and drawing out tangs? Or is it mainly good for welding billets?

I would love to get an old Bradley or Little Giant to replace my current hammer, but don't have the cash right now. And I need something soon.

Any advice would be appreciated.
 
You can do it all.Ed Caffery and others bevel their blades with one.I've never used a power hammer or seen one working in person but from the videos I've watched I believe my press is much faster for stock reduction,making damascus,drawing and upsetting.Its also a sure lot quieter.
 
I would actually say that if you make knives and you could only have one or the other, that a press is far more useful than a hammer. Every operation that you want to do when making both knives and damascus can be done on a press just as it can be done on a hammer, but you can get a lot more control with your welding and drawing on a press, and get more consistent welds due to the pressure.
 
I'm the opposite of what your asking, I get by only on a Fairbanks 150lb hammer, mainly because money is way too tight for a press. Presses are extremely useful, if you can afford it build one with a minimum of 25 tons. They really open up your options when it comes to mosaic damascus.

Personally I'm planning on building a 150 ton press once my new shop is fixed up.
 
To my way of thinking, there is a place for each in a shop.

A press excels at breaking down big stock quickly, but I prefer a good hammer with a good set of flat dies for final sizing of stock.

They also tend to move material differently which can matter in damascus patterning. A press will more the center of the billet while a hammer will move more of the outside of a billet.

I my ideal shop there is a good, solid press and a good stout hammer, and I'm considering adding a rolling mill to the list for final size finishing and keeping a san-mai laser straight.

In short, you can work just fine with either, but you can do more with both...

-d
 
I get by just fine with the 60 ton press my dad and I built for around $1,200.

I probably won't get a hammer anytime in the near future.
 
deker said:
To my way of thinking, there is a place for each in a shop.

A press excels at breaking down big stock quickly, but I prefer a good hammer with a good set of flat dies for final sizing of stock.

They also tend to move material differently which can matter in damascus patterning. A press will more the center of the billet while a hammer will move more of the outside of a billet.
I my ideal shop there is a good, solid press and a good stout hammer, and I'm considering adding a rolling mill to the list for final size finishing and keeping a san-mai laser straight.

In short, you can work just fine with either, but you can do more with both...

-d
Click to expand...

Very understandable. That's a good point. I will be getting a hammer but probably not for about four or five years.
 
There's nothing I have wanted to do that I could not accomplish on my 50# LG.
If I had the available funds, I would have gone ahead and got a 100# LG to add to the 50#.
However, until I can get a 100#er, I'm just short a coat of paint on my new press.
I personally can not see serious knife making without at least one of each.
They will sit side-by-side and work as a team.
 
Obviously, I'd love to have both. But, as I understand it, presses are cheaper to build than good power hammers are to buy. I'm just wondering if, if I were to build a press now, would I be seriously impaired until I can save up for a hammer.
 
I have a press and it is probably only running at about 16 tons or so and it works fine for most applications. Beveling is pretty much out of the question on a smaller press unless you have VERY narrow beveling dies. Drawing out stock is always going to be easier and faster with a hammer. By the way, Ed caffrey has power hammers in addition to his press. He had an LG when he did his videos but now I think that he had one of the Tom Clark Say Mak hammers. I played around with Cliff Parker's Say Mak and I would love to have one. What kind of hammer do you have Phillip?
 
jdm61 said:
I have a press and it is probably only running at about 16 tons or so and it works fine for most applications. Beveling is pretty much out of the question on a smaller press unless you have VERY narrow beveling dies. Drawing out stock is always going to be easier and faster with a hammer. By the way, Ed caffrey has power hammers in addition to his press. He had an LG when he did his videos but now I think that he had one of the Tom Clark Say Mak hammers. I played around with Cliff Parker's Say Mak and I would love to have one. What kind of hammer do you have Phillip?
Click to expand...

I have a Ron Kinyon style air hammer. It's certainly been a help, but I think I've just about outgrown it.

Sounds like the hammer is more versatile, so I'll probably fix my hammer, work hard and save up for a Bradley. Then build a press. Thanks everyone for your input!
 
Phillip, seems like you have a hammer halfway built, wouldn't take much to convert it to a mechanical?
 
For many years I had only a 25lb LG, then added a 50lb LG to the shop. About 13 years ago I purchased the second Carlisle Imagination X-Press ever made. I remember being so worried about putting out the money for that press, and hoping/praying that it would be worth it. By the grace of God, I forged and sold enough damascus on that press to recover the money in only 3 months! The press lasted me for about 9 years before wear and tear caused the frame to give out. Thats when I salvaged all the important parts, and built a much heavier frame for it...and its still in service today.
About 4 years ago I took the plunge and purchased a 110lb Say-Mak, and sold both my 25 and 50 LGs. If you asked me which I could do without, I would not say "NEITHER"! The press is my precision, and the hammer is my speed (although the Say-Mak is so smooth and controllable... it has a great deal of precision too)

Without the press I simply could not do many of the mosaics I do. Its just that important for specific operations. Something to note here is that a press CAN be much more dangerous than a hammer....unless you make yourself aware of the tremendous forces involved, both with the materials being forged, and the mechanics of the press itself. Another thing that I have often seen with newer press builder/users is they think that more tonnage is better, which is not always the case. My press has an adjustable by-pass on it, which allows the line pressures to be adjusted, which in turn means that the tonnage can be adjusted from approx. 24-30 tons. I mention this because I have watched newer press users who built 50+ ton presses literally wreck billets by trying to press them too much in a single heat. My opinion is that 25 tons is about right for most applications, but there are times when building larger billets, that its nice to have some extra oommph.
Finally, sometimes its about doing things smarter, and not harder. At 46, I can't swing a hammer all day long like I used to, and as much as I'd like to think that I still have that big red "S" on my chest....its faded to pink over the years. The press (and the hammer) are ways that I can keep doing what I love, hopefully for a lot of years to come.

If your thinking that a press is something you want, and it can increase your productivity, I say go for it. It will open many new dimensions for you, and you won't be sorry you did it. But be careful....you'll quickly start finding excuses why you "just gotta" have a hammer too! :D
 
I have both but could not be without my 100 lb Little Giant.
I do 90% of my forging with the hammer, includding mosaics.

With that said, a person could get by with just a press and some do.
 
From what I have seen, a power hammer can outperform a press of the type most of us use when things get kinda thin. (Kyle's press being the exception...that thing could crush a small car!!! lol) I have Jeff Carlisle's personal Imagination Xpress and with the couple of dies that I currently have, I can squash down W2 round bar of varying sizes with no problem UNTIL it gets down around 1/2 inch. Then it becomes slow going with way too much scale on the floor. As the steel thins out, it loses its heat more quickly and there is more surface area to press. The thing that I would really like to have the hammer for is drawing stuff out once it gets to a managable size on the press. Of course, being able to draw out bevels nice and smooth like Don does on his hammer would be great too. I did that with Cliff's hammer last week and then proceeded to put dents in the blade wile "cleaning up' with a hand hammer. :eek: So, in theory, using my press for the "heavy lifting" I could get by nicely with a 25 lb LG or say a 35 lb Anyang or a Kinyon in that same range as long as it had been modified to hit in the 200+ bpm range. With that said, a bigger hammer would be nice.:D
 
Forgings from 100 lb Little Giant. :D

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Dexer, I own a rolling mill and works great when drawing a billett. However - after the pattern is established than forget the mill. It will distort your pattern. I also use mine to put the distal taper in my non damascus blades.
\
Jim
 
jdm61 said:
Very nice, Don, but some of us rent shop space, so we can't pour a special concrete slab for our hammer that is the size of the Hitler's Berlin Fuehrerbunker.:D
Click to expand...

Not all hammers need a Fuehrebunker size slab :)

The Tom Clark hammer for instance. Though not quite the hammer of a LG 100, it is a nice hammer :p
 
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