So how much better is a higher grade stainless?

HoB. Thanks for the link to Norton. The fine SC is hard to find so this is good info. I think Scott at Tru Grit sells the combination stone for about $35 last time I checked.

Phil
 
Hi, DoW, I do remember that you used 12 deg a lot for a while, but I thought, you had gone lower since. For me it is a great deal of convenience. The lower the angle the more material you have to remove and it goes up unproportionally (at some time I even calculated it out, even posted it) and for someone without a belt grinder and none in the forseeable future it gets very tedious below 12 deg. per side. Only very few knives I have taken below ten, most notably a Pacific Salt because H1 is so easy to work. Initially I've always gone straight to 12 deg with no microbevel, but the lower the angle the harder I find I have to fight the burr. So now I go to 12 and add a microbevel, like you between 15-20 deg, and life is so much easier....and in the end the cutting ability is not that different. Though in the last year I have noticed that microbevels really seem to work much better if there is at least a 5 deg difference between primary and microbevel (3 deg is ok, but 5+ seem to work better). So I've started to take a couple of knives (none in S30V) to 10 deg per side, so that I can add a +5 deg microbevel with the 15 deg setting on the sharpmaker. Lately, I don't have all that much time to play, though, so I get to rebevel a new knife only here and there.

I have never had any issues with S30V at 12 deg and I think even Cliff reported his issues at well below 10 deg per side. So I've never thought much of it. Yes, occasionally I get a few microchips here and there into my edges, but it happens on occation with all my knives regardless of the steel (except for A2 (BRKT) which seems to be more prone to denting).

All my S30V blades are from Spyderco and only models that never seem to have suffered from those problems that S30V has become infamous for on occasion (at least they have never been mentioned at bladeforums in that context). So I might have been lucky that I've never gotten a rotten S30V apple. I've once talk to Phil about a knife (in 10V) but while I still think (dream) of it, my recent move and other circumstances have prevented me to order one. Maybe (hopefully) I will be able to afford one, once I am fully settled again.

You know, since we are a bit on the philosophical side at the moment: The whole quest for highly polished blades and lower and lower angles became less interesting to me one day while I was doing some threadcutting and tried to squeeze out the last gram of sharpness and suddenly it occured to me that without the scale there was no way I would be able to tell the difference. I think I've pulled out the scale only once, since. Since, I am trying to find the best working edge, and one that I can apply in the least amount of time. I still not satisfied with that, which is why I want to try those Crystalon stones. Btw. I have never had any problems with my waterstones not cutting S30V either, but then again, I don't know what abrasive is used in those fine japanese waterstones. Might very well be that they use SiC or a mixture of AlO and SiC in a resin binder.

The other wakeup call came while packing my stuff. Since they had to be shipped oversees I had to be very careful in tapeing my boxes shut and I used a fiber-reinforced packing tape (you can get it at any U-haul). This stuff is certain death to any knife edge, no surprise, you are cutting essentially glass. But the high carbide steels like S30V and ZDP-189 do seem to last a lot longer (meaning something like 30 cuts instead of 10), and they seem to cut better after the fine edge is lost (also no surprise there). This is such a mundane and "city-like" cutting application that I've begun to wonder, whether someone like Phil, testing on rope and looking primarily towards hunting blades, isn't on to something that is of great use to me as well, and I am pretty much a city-guy (because, I am telling you, I was not going to re-sharpen my knives in the middle of packing my stuff - after a while I wouldn't have known where my Sharpmaker or my waterstones where, anyways. Thank godness, I have a few knives ;)). You know, I was tired, I was exhausted, I was working in the attic at 100 F (no joke), and simply didn't care whether my knifes were shaving or not, as long as I didn't have to struggle through those cardboard boxes and the packing tape. Gave me a whole new perspective on what a working knife edge should be able to do. Sure for my japanese kitchen knives I will always use highly polished edges that are lovingly cared for and I think everybody should try some threadcutting just to see what is possible, but I think I will approach my working (pocket) knives a bit differently and my interest in the high carbidevolume steels is newly kindled.

Sorry, and thanks for letting my ramble!

Hey, Thom, thanks! Wouldn't life be a lot easier if we knew what we will be doing/needing/using in the future :D?
 
Phil, yes, you are right, I just didn't see it on the trugrit webpage (was apparently a bit tired last night). I just checked again and he sells it indeed for $36. Very good price, both Amazon and Norton are asking $50+. The 8" stones are also a tad cheaper. I didn't see the fine Crystalon on his webpage, but I am sure he can order it. Too bad, would have liked to give him my business. Oh well, next time.
 
Great comments and discussion, guys.

Phil, you bring up something I've looked into a bit in the past, that being the hardness of different carbides vs. the hardness of sharpening media. I'm wondering if you can clarify this for me.

From various sources I've pulled in the following hardnesses:

Aluminum Oxide - 9.0 Mohs; Knoop hardness ~2100; Vickers ~2600

Silicon Carbide - 9.3 Mohs; Knoop hardness 2500-3000

Vanadium Carbide - Knoop hardness ~2900; Vickers 3200-3800

Chromium Carbide - Vickers ~1850

From what I've read, vanadium carbides are going to be the hardest carbides in a steel. Having sharpened a lot of blades with vanadium in the alloy without any problem or evidence under magnification of carbide tearing using India stones and fine ceramic, I take that probably as evidence that vanadium carbides are very small, at least if the heat treat is done properly.

As for other carbides in the steel, such as chromium carbide, it appears an India stone is harder and so there shouldn't be any concern sharpening on aluminum oxide media.

Is this understanding correct? Particularly reading comments here about taking S30V to a highly polished edge, I'm wondering if part of the difficulty I've had with this steel might have been due to the India stone tearing out large carbides ... and if what I think I know about carbide hardness/size is right (a big if), could this indicate something to the effect that I've just had the bad luck to have poorly heat treated S30V blades where large carbide aggregates, perhaps vanadium (is that even possible) were formed and wind up tearing out during sharpening?

Thanks for your feedback. Always ready and willing to learn, despite my sometimes appearing stubbornly stupid. :)

thombrogan said:
Dog of War,

I've noticed the same thing with polished S30V edges as you, but maybe in a different way. I've chipped out 28 degree edges cutting twine and 30+ degree edges cutting rosebushes and yet; with a 40+ degree polished edge that's 0.008" thick at shoulder; have had S30V cut through dirt, roots, and pebbles with no damage.
Click to expand...
I think it was that poster in reply #4 (whose name I guess we're not mentioning for now ;)) who provided links to Landes's work indicating pretty much the same thing, appropriate "apex" angles for different classes of steels based on edge stability. Again my luck with S30V hasn't been so good, but VG-10 has been a really good example of this in my experience: the leap in fine edge retention going from a 17 deg./side microbevel to 20 deg/side has been pretty impressive in tests I've done. In fact it's easy to see why VG-10 is such a popular steel, as it seems to strike a very good balance IMO between edge stability and wear resistance, making it a good all-round choice.

HoB said:
Hi, DoW, I do remember that you used 12 deg a lot for a while, but I thought, you had gone lower since. For me it is a great deal of convenience. The lower the angle the more material you have to remove and it goes up unproportionally (at some time I even calculated it out, even posted it) and for someone without a belt grinder and none in the forseeable future it gets very tedious below 12 deg. per side. Only very few knives I have taken below ten, most notably a Pacific Salt because H1 is so easy to work. Initially I've always gone straight to 12 deg with no microbevel, but the lower the angle the harder I find I have to fight the burr. So now I go to 12 and add a microbevel, like you between 15-20 deg, and life is so much easier....and in the end the cutting ability is not that different. Though in the last year I have noticed that microbevels really seem to work much better if there is at least a 5 deg difference between primary and microbevel (3 deg is ok, but 5+ seem to work better).
Click to expand...
Man ... just about everything you've said here fits exactly with my thoughts and experience, in fact I've commented about my lazy method of sharpening before on these forums. Interesting too that you've found that a 5 degree difference between the microbevel and the primary edge just works a whole lot slicker. And of course my Moras at ~10 deg/side from the factory are mostly the ones that get the 15 deg. microbevel (doesn't work so well on the non-laminate carbon blades, however.)

Somehow people got the impression I was part of the radical "darksider" camp, but not so. IMO with an EDC blade it's best to err on the side of toughness: I can always apply more force to make a cut if needed, and in the long run that's a better solution than having to remove serious blade damage or replace knives with broken blades.

You know, since we are a bit on the philosophical side at the moment: The whole quest for highly polished blades and lower and lower angles became less interesting to me one day while I was doing some threadcutting and tried to squeeze out the last gram of sharpness and suddenly it occured to me that without the scale there was no way I would be able to tell the difference. I think I've pulled out the scale only once, since. Since, I am trying to find the best working edge, and one that I can apply in the least amount of time. I still not satisfied with that, which is why I want to try those Crystalon stones. Btw. I have never had any problems with my waterstones not cutting S30V either, but then again, I don't know what abrasive is used in those fine japanese waterstones. Might very well be that they use SiC or a mixture of AlO and SiC in a resin binder.

The other wakeup call came while packing my stuff. Since they had to be shipped oversees I had to be very careful in tapeing my boxes shut and I used a fiber-reinforced packing tape (you can get it at any U-haul). This stuff is certain death to any knife edge, no surprise, you are cutting essentially glass. But the high carbide steels like S30V and ZDP-189 do seem to last a lot longer (meaning something like 30 cuts instead of 10), and they seem to cut better after the fine edge is lost (also no surprise there). This is such a mundane and "city-like" cutting application that I've begun to wonder, whether someone like Phil, testing on rope and looking primarily towards hunting blades, isn't on to something that is of great use to me as well, and I am pretty much a city-guy (because, I am telling you, I was not going to re-sharpen my knives in the middle of packing my stuff - after a while I wouldn't have known where my Sharpmaker or my waterstones where, anyways. Thank godness, I have a few knives ;)). You know, I was tired, I was exhausted, I was working in the attic at 100 F (no joke), and simply didn't care whether my knifes were shaving or not, as long as I didn't have to struggle through those cardboard boxes and the packing tape. Gave me a whole new perspective on what a working knife edge should be able to do. Sure for my japanese kitchen knives I will always use highly polished edges that are lovingly cared for and I think everybody should try some threadcutting just to see what is possible, but I think I will approach my working (pocket) knives a bit differently and my interest in the high carbidevolume steels is newly kindled.

Sorry, and thanks for letting my ramble!
Click to expand...
Again you and I are a lot alike, HoB, and a very enjoyable ramble. Sometimes I really like delving into theoretical stuff here on the forums, or really dissecting something to a degree that goes way beyond what's practical. And I've totally enjoyed the edge retention testing I've done, even though the big motivation has been mostly just so that I could be more objective about what I'm doing with knives I own and use, and hopefully learn a few things that would be useful, day-to-day. It's been months since I've push cut a piece of newsprint, cut sisal rope, or even taken a swipe at an arm hair. But all that testing and resharpening I was doing for a while certainly seems to have had a lasting impact on my sharpening skills, with no need to keep checking it all the time now.

Ironically when I mentioned cutting (nylon) reinforced hose earlier, it was in my mind to specifically not mention cutting anything with glass fiber reinforcement, like that !@$%&*! packing tape you mention. Haven't encountered much of that lately, but I remember back when I carried a VG-10 Caly Jr. how fast that stuff would do in a fresh edge.

thombrogan said:
Can't wait to read your experiences with ZDP-189 and SG-2 when you get a chance to try them. SG-2 seems to sharpen easier than ZDP-189 at the Brogan household, but both take and hold a polished edge with ease.
Click to expand...
OK, so now you guys have me rethinking some of this. Been thinking about one of the Spyderco offerings in ZDP-189, but what I've read about SGPS sounds like maybe it's even a bit better. Not such a bad dilemma to have, I guess. :)
 
I've found for me the best balance of polish and coarse edge is around the Norton 4000 wet stone. I can produce a similar edge with light passes on my Spyderco Med bench hone also. I've went from liking super polished to very coarse and really for the way I cut most things it is a combo of push and slice. So I need some tooth that will also push. All my edges are convexed on a benchstone and rocked just a little around 10 degrees or so. I truthfully no longer really worry or care what the angle is as long as I get the cutting performance I want. With this type of edge I really don't see any or much difference due to carbide volume or size. I personally think grain size has more of an effect.
 
Thanks for the link, db; a lotta meat in Landes's few words there. I'm pretty sure I recall reading somewhere on the web something he published in which he categorizes difference stainless steels into three classes based on edge stability and/or carbide fraction, stating minimum edge angles he'd found suitable for each.

Interesting that the edge geometry HoB and I've been discussing is right near the 25 degree threshold mentioned. Given just normal variation you'd expect during heat treat, this alone could explain at least some of the difference in experience we see reported from one user to the next.
 
Dog of War, Dog of War, Your hardness values are pretty much what I have. Silicon carbide is a little harder than Vanadium carbide. Alum oxide is somewhat softer. My analogy would be that sharpening a high volume VC blade with Alum oxide is kind of like trying to file a 64 Rc blade with a 64 Rc file. You can make some progress and actually get an edge on it after a while. If you use SC the small difference in hardness seems to make a big difference on how the blade feels on the stone. For example a 10V blade at 64 just seems to skate on Al oxide ( india) but your can feel it cut on SC. It may be the hardness of SC or it may be just how the stone is made, maybe the grit is a little sharper and is friable enough that pcs fracture off and a new jagged edge is available to make the process easier. This area of abrasives is a science all itself. I can use a Al oxide surface grinder wheel to cut a nice even flat on a hard 10V blade. How does Al oxide work there? Probably a function of friability and momentum. I have tried diamond stones, water stones and all but always come back to the Crystalon to make the bevel and bring up a burr and then to take it off with a steeper angle on the India. This works on D2, FFD2, all the CPM steels, ZDP 189, AEB-L. You can also go direct to the India stone on all of the above except the CPM's including CPM 154 with good results it just takes a little longer. Phil
 
HoB said:
Phil, yes, you are right, I just didn't see it on the trugrit webpage (was apparently a bit tired last night). I just checked again and he sells it indeed for $36. Very good price, both Amazon and Norton are asking $50+. The 8" stones are also a tad cheaper. I didn't see the fine Crystalon on his webpage, but I am sure he can order it. Too bad, would have liked to give him my business. Oh well, next time.
Click to expand...

Hob,

I have an extra Norton combination stone both India and SC, just laying around. They had a big sale on them a few years ago, and picked up an extra I just don't need. Shoot me an email and you can have it.

I'm still finishing up a bunch of rope testing, but the differences between coarse and polished grit for rope cutting is amazing. 10V at 64 is pretty amazing also, it's walking away from everything else. When I'm done, I'll post the results on Cliff's web site and let you know, in case you are interested.
 
dunno how silly this makes me look, but I've confused posts from DoW & HoB for the last 3 years :o

I used to leave a 20 per side, 280/medium grit edge on working knives with a Lansky, way back when. It was quick & it shaved. Then I realized I don't slice much. Cutting hose, tape, cardboard, stripping wire, cutting carpet, and so on, my blades aren't long enough to cut on a draw (like trying to keep a straight cut in two dozen feet of outdoor carpeting) I like full flat drop points for sticking through material to start a cut, and I polish up edges with a natural hold at 10-13 degrees/side. I put a 600 diamond edge on kitchen knives, and rely on serrations if I gotta cut rope more than a couple times.
 
Hi, HH, There are far worse people to be mistaken for than DoW...so I don't think we have a problem here :D.
But in case you are interested: DoW obviously stands for Dog of War (I am always reminded of the Pink Floyd song....one of my favorites), while HoB stands for Hell on Blades :D.

Well, REALLY coarse edges I don't like either, that much is clear. However, an edge right around 3000 I seem to like and edges with a large gap in grit seem to work very well for me as well; something like 700/10000 or 700/CrO Strop(0.5 microns). These edges all shave, so they are more than decent pushcutters, but they have more slicing aggression than a fully polished edge. This is why I want to try the Crystalon/Strop combination that Phil has been talking about. That seems like something I might like.

Wow, Sodak that is a very generous offer. I am not sure I can accept that (though it is very tempting).
 
Does Landes only categorize stainless? DW if you find a link to the info I'd be interested in what the minimum angles for each would be. I'm guessing that edge finish would also effect minimum edge angle as well.
 
Phil Wilson said:
Dog of War, Dog of War, Your hardness values are pretty much what I have. Silicon carbide is a little harder than Vanadium carbide. Alum oxide is somewhat softer. My analogy would be that sharpening a high volume VC blade with Alum oxide is kind of like trying to file a 64 Rc blade with a 64 Rc file. You can make some progress and actually get an edge on it after a while. If you use SC the small difference in hardness seems to make a big difference on how the blade feels on the stone. For example a 10V blade at 64 just seems to skate on Al oxide ( india) but your can feel it cut on SC. It may be the hardness of SC or it may be just how the stone is made, maybe the grit is a little sharper and is friable enough that pcs fracture off and a new jagged edge is available to make the process easier. This area of abrasives is a science all itself. I can use a Al oxide surface grinder wheel to cut a nice even flat on a hard 10V blade. How does Al oxide work there? Probably a function of friability and momentum. I have tried diamond stones, water stones and all but always come back to the Crystalon to make the bevel and bring up a burr and then to take it off with a steeper angle on the India. This works on D2, FFD2, all the CPM steels, ZDP 189, AEB-L. You can also go direct to the India stone on all of the above except the CPM's including CPM 154 with good results it just takes a little longer. Phil
Click to expand...
Thanks, Phil. Looking at the hardness numbers it seems that using an AO stone to sharpen vanadium steels has to be iffy at times, and your experience certainly seems to bear that out. One reason I like India stones is their excellent resistance to dishing/wear, though no doubt that means they're far less friable than SiC. Interesting I've noticed a bit of dishing on the "heavy use" side of my medium India benchstone lately, guessing now it's probably due to using more higher alloy stainless than I used to (I actually was a stubborn carbon steel holdout until maybe 3-4 years ago until VG-10 and the Sandvik steels began to convince me there was merit to stainless.)

Something does puzzle me, however. If my understanding is correct, CPM steels are designed to produce a finer overall grain structure of the steel matrix, and reduced carbide aggregation. This would lead me to think that carbide tearing would be less of a problem, or at least the "tooth" left when tearing occurs would be finer, than with a comparable non-PM alloy. Of course I can see that this may not be related to what you're saying about difficulty sharpening CPM steels with AO abrasive, in fact I can see where the finer, more stable CPM matrix and smaller carbides probably would make sharpening more difficult ... all of which may just further confirm my opinion that heat treats on the S30V blades I've had were less than optimal.

Having a couple decent SiC hones around, one even a Norton Crystolon, I'm wishing now I'd hung on to one of my S30V knives just to compare. If less fracturing and a finer tooth was found under magnification sharpening with SiC as compared to AO, I think that would indicate that the AO is insufficiently hard for these high alloy steels and was leading to carbide tear-out.

hardheart said:
dunno how silly this makes me look, but I've confused posts from DoW & HoB for the last 3 years :o
Click to expand...

Now you've got me wondering if HoB = "Hound of Battle", perhaps a screen name of a multiple personality I know nothing about! :) If not, well, I'm certainly glad the real HoB doesn't seem too offended by your mistaking us ... and personally, I'm damned flattered by it.

db said:
Does Landes only categorize stainless? DW if you find a link to the info I'd be interested in what the minimum angles for each would be. I'm guessing that edge finish would also effect minimum edge angle as well.
Click to expand...
I've been poking around, searching, to see if I could turn that up again, but no luck so far. My recollection is that the way he was classifying steels applied to both stainless and non-stainless, with the high alloy stainlesses mostly making up the lowest edge stability class requiring the most obtuse -- er, I guess I need to say least acute -- edge geometry. I'll keep looking, guessing it might be linked to somewhere on the cutleryscience website. If not, maybe Thom or gunmike might know where to find it.
 
I don't know G.D. Papadimitriou from Adam, but he might have the full article what with being one of the authors and all.
 
I don't know any Adams, either. I have to go to the library for an econ paper anyway, maybe they can track down this Tribology Int'l. for me. The elsevier site doesn't have much info on ordering back issues :( But paying 30 bucks for online access to one article vs 12 issues for 200 is... interesting.
 
Phil Wilson said:
Thom, I use the same method on all the steels. I really don't know if the toothy edge is better for say 30V than for 154CM for example. It just seems to work for every thing. I just don't do enough polished edges to be able to compare the difference.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Phil. Was curious with your experiences on polished versus toothy, but toothy edges are giving you all of the cutting joy you want, that's cool, too.

HoB said:
Hey, Thom, thanks! Wouldn't life be a lot easier if we knew what we will be doing/needing/using in the future?
Click to expand...

Sure would. So why not take sodak up on his offer? You could boil any possible oil out of the stone and use the SiC side with blue glass cleaner from Johnny's Foodmaster (or wherever you may shop) to enhance cutting.

Dog of War said:
I think it was that poster in reply #4 (whose name I guess we're not mentioning for now ;)) who provided links to Landes's work indicating pretty much the same thing, appropriate "apex" angles for different classes of steels based on edge stability. Again my luck with S30V hasn't been so good, but VG-10 has been a really good example of this in my experience: the leap in fine edge retention going from a 17 deg./side microbevel to 20 deg/side has been pretty impressive in tests I've done. In fact it's easy to see why VG-10 is such a popular steel, as it seems to strike a very good balance IMO between edge stability and wear resistance, making it a good all-round choice.
Click to expand...

You've got me thinking about something counterintuitive: Are the steels which need large angles to take polished finishes able to hold thinner edges with coarser finishes? It's counterintuitive to me because polished edges seem more resistant to chipping and corrosion for me.

Dog of War said:
Somehow people got the impression I was part of the radical "darksider" camp, but not so. IMO with an EDC blade it's best to err on the side of toughness: I can always apply more force to make a cut if needed, and in the long run that's a better solution than having to remove serious blade damage or replace knives with broken blades.
Click to expand...

When is not buying more knives good? :confused: ;) Sometimes, a low angle with a thick edge is a good compromise between cutting ease and toughness (like a 12-15 degree per side angle on a JYDII).

Dog of War said:
OK, so now you guys have me rethinking some of this. Been thinking about one of the Spyderco offerings in ZDP-189, but what I've read about SGPS sounds like maybe it's even a bit better. Not such a bad dilemma to have, I guess.
Click to expand...

The Stretch II should be a good 'knock yer socks off' ZDP-189/carbon fiber offering (I've got their ZDP/cf Caly3 and it's brilliant!), but the unholy union of the JYDII, SG-2, and grippy titanium should be just as much of a jaw-dropper.
 
Hardheart,

I was suggesting (in my obtuse manner) that you email that dude (his email addy was on the link you posted) and ask him for a copy.
 
Never seen that one, Thom, but it's much along the same lines ... was beginning to doubt if it was Landes I was recalling, but now I'm again pretty sure it was. But that pdf is a great find!

Downloaded the source for that cutleryscience blade materials page and searched all the links, but no luck yet. But I'm like a terrier, so not giving up yet....

thombrogan said:
You've got me thinking about something counterintuitive: Are the steels which need large angles to take polished finishes able to hold thinner edges with coarser finishes? It's counterintuitive to me because polished edges seem more resistant to chipping and corrosion for me.
Click to expand...
I think what you're suggesting is possible. Based on discussions I've read about the "self-sharpening" effect seen with some blades, it kind of makes sense to me that high carbide steel run at low angles could be more likely to microchip away, rather than wearing down more smoothly, and so keep a good level of slicing aggression. This sounds like an interesting little study for the Brogan Blade Testing Institute to conduct.

When is not buying more knives good? :confused: ;) Sometimes, a low angle with a thick edge is a good compromise between cutting ease and toughness (like a 12-15 degree per side angle on a JYDII).
Click to expand...
JYD2 is exactly the kind of knife I had in mind, or a Becker Necker run at 10-12 deg/side. For all those lighter, shallow cutting jobs you get you enjoy the benefits of the acute edge geometry without the heavier blade being much of a drawback, yet you can still cut through some CAT5 or heavy coax, even pry open a crate of surplus ammo.

BTW, when I took my JYD2 down to 3.5" blade length, I had a strip of 13C26 from cutting down the spine with a Dremel cut-off wheel, and did a bit of testing on it. Amazingly tough for a stainless at that hardenss, can be bent to where it'll take maybe a 10-15 deg. set before breaking. I've done similar tests with VG-10 and it just snaps without flexing at all, and though all subjective doesn't seem to require near as much force.

The Stretch II should be a good 'knock yer socks off' ZDP-189/carbon fiber offering (I've got their ZDP/cf Caly3 and it's brilliant!), but the unholy union of the JYDII, SG-2, and grippy titanium should be just as much of a jaw-dropper.
Click to expand...
Been meaning to find out, I know the VG-10 Caly3 can't be disassembled, or the pivot adjusted. Same on the ZDP/cf version? Also wondering how sharp the jimping is; I really prefer a soft jimping like the JYD2, sharp jimping like on some of the Byrd line is a bit rough on bare skin for me.

Sounds like you have a bit of a preference for the Super Gold over ZDP, true? I was really hoping Kershaw would do a run of SG-2 Leeks like was being discussed, I've gotten a hankering for a Leek and that seems like a great size and package for SG-2.

So why not take sodak up on his offer? You could boil any possible oil out of the stone and use the SiC side with blue glass cleaner from Johnny's Foodmaster (or wherever you may shop) to enhance cutting.
Click to expand...
Gotta jump in ... quite a while ago I read somewhere about using CoolTool II cutting fluid on stones, particularly ones that are clogged. I've got some old fine SiC hones that resisted all efforts, soaking in solvents, boiling, even my favorite of soaking in ScrubFree shower cleaner, but now work great if I just oil 'em up with CoolTool. I think Engnath also mentions using this on wet-dry sandpaper and getting much better cutting action and longer abrasive life.
 
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