So if the end of the world came...

A new thread should be started with some parameters and restrictions. Maybe you can only keep what you can carry with you and assume your home in the suburbs/city/South Dakota was over run by starving bandits/looters/rioters/zombies/etc. I mean Even if you do have a months or a years supply of food/water you will eventually run out. And I wouldn't assume things would recover back to normal after a Nuclear attack or Zombie outbreak:p So your multiple guns/ammunition/collection of knives would have to be left behind as you make your way to wherever.
I know I would be safe from Zombies as the good looking ones are never killed in zombie movies:p But my neighborhood would be a great target for displaced and starving citizens to come looting and pillaging. I live near the foot hills only a few miles south of national forest land. I would make my there with a pack and find a suitable place to build a shelter, near a water source where I can find food. This strategy is outlined in the documentary "Red Dawn":D Also I think tunnels are greatly underestimated as they were used as mere shelters in Iowa Jima in WW2, and used extensively as living quarters and bases of operation in Vietnam. The entrances could be concealed and trapped in case Zombies or roving gangs of bandits find it. You would live undetected, protected from fire and the elements, and keep a more stable temperature. Only problem would be if your area suffers from severe flooding or earth quakes.
 
DrivebyTrucker said:
A new thread should be started with some parameters and restrictions. Maybe you can only keep what you can carry with you and assume your home in the suburbs/city/South Dakota was over run by starving bandits/looters/rioters/zombies/etc. I mean Even if you do have a months or a years supply of food/water you will eventually run out. And I wouldn't assume things would recover back to normal after a Nuclear attack or Zombie outbreak:p So your multiple guns/ammunition/collection of knives would have to be left behind as you make your way to wherever.
Click to expand...

Exactly. That's why I think one wouldn't really be able to stockpile everything you need in one area and just hold out. When I first started this thread, I was thinking more along the lines of people constantly on the move, finding resources as they go. That's why I wouldn't want to build a forge or stockpile loads of gun ammo because one day something's going to happen (fire, siege) and you're going to need to get out of dodge fast.

Ideally I'd like a back-up stash or weapons/tools in any location I'm in (even if it's only 1/4 of a mile away), somewhere you'd have the basic weapons and tools to start over in case you were forced to bug out with nothing but the clothes on your back. The only problem there would be transporting extra crap while roving longer distances. Perhaps one might establish a central location from which to roam; If ever you lost your supplies while on the run, you could return to your stash point and resupply.

I mean, sure, you might get lucky and never lose anything or get taken by surprise; but if you're unlucky, I'd rather have a backup stash somewhere with all the necessary things I had lost.


i'm thinking about this waaayyyy too much.
 
quote: i'm thinking about this waaayyyy too much. end quote

I am uncertain if this was more of a threat in the past, present, or future. If we had the internet during the cold war and you were a West German, or any Western European country posting this question on a online forum; it wouldn't sound in the least bit absurd. War, economic collapse, Diseases both naturally mutated and those that are man made that can wipe out millions or possibly billions in a year; these make for great movie subjects but are in fact a real and serious threat. I have never really lived through any of these catastrophes. But I am not so naive as to think it couldn't happen to me. Best to prepared. Also I don't mean going overboard if if cost your vacation or a nice car or other vanity items that make us feel nice and comfortable. I'm not suggesting a full out bomb shelter a big :thumbup: to anyone who has one. Simple things that don't cost much that go hand in hand with simple planning.
Case in point; I was at my cousins this weekend and spotted his emergency food and water supply in his closet while helping him to pack up for our camping trip. He said he went down to his church cannery and did it some time ago. They were extra extra large solid cans with home aid labels a few years old. OK so he wasn't rotating his supplies if the can's were labeled 2005. He calculated about a years worth of supplies for the reasons I listed. He is not a tactical guy by any means. I don't think he owns a gun, a outdoors man's knife, or has ever been in a fight before.
But there are people out there who think a man is crazy if he thinks such things could happen to him or his country. Talk show host George Norrey, Glenn Beck, really most of the conservative talk show host occasionally talk about their emergency food supplies and shelters.
As far as your idea of stashing supplies in the woods I think that is a great idea. As long as it's a good spot with not to much in value stashed away as there is always a possibility of someone stumbling upon it with a metal detector. In CA we are fortunate to have a good climate and so much public access to government owned National Forest and BLM land.
I would think to place some supplies in a large plastic locker box not so far from home so as I could get to it while on mountain bike or dirt bike. Preferably near a mountain stream but not to close. I wouldn't keep a gun in there. But inside I would keep a knife maybe a Mora or Ka-Bar or both, an axe or machete, maybe another shovel, a large stainless cook pot for boiling water and cooking, a tarp, 550 cord and some larger rope, a flint/steel/magnesium bar for fire making, and maybe a brick of .22LR since it's cheap and good for hunting small game.
$25 locker
$15 or less for mora
$10 for sharpening tool your choice
$25 for machete
$10 for 550 cord
$10 for large rope
$15 or less for brick of .22LR
$10 or so for flint/mag bar
$10 for tarp
$30 for shovel
$20 cooking supplies
$20 or more for some netting from a surplus store. You may need to cheat and use a net if you want eat fish. Some fishing gear could come in handy.
$50 for some ready made traps. Not something you make yourself. Even cheap mouse/rat traps could work for snapping small chipmunks/squirrels/rabbits.

Total around $250
That's what I would have feel free to comment or add. Also anyone like my tunnel idea:D
 
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I like your locker box idea, it's exactly the sort of thing I had in mind. And yes, simple items supporting simple planning is really all that is needed. Sure, I'd love to have this and that, but ultimately it comes down to the essentials. So many are unprepared for any out of the ordinary situation, much less a genuine catastrophe. And I don't mean just physically either; many are woefully lacking in the mental department as well. I think people are getting so comfortable in our high tech consumer society, that many truly are unaware of just how hard things could be. I am not, by any means, saying I'm better than the average joe, or that I'd survive any situation where others would perish; but I'd like to think that many of the people that peruse these forums are like-minded: we possess the mindset required for survival. Maybe that's overstepping, but you know what I mean. I'm not a doomsayer, but I don't exactly think human civilization is reaching new heights either; so I think it's entirely worth it to buy that piece of gear or book on bushcraft or small scale agriculture rather than the new ipod nano.

In any case, it costs nothing to be prepared mentally to survive. Sure, i'd love to have the best gear and bad-ass weaponry, but it always comes down to your own brain. :) And like you pointed out, drivebytrucker, it really isn't expensive at all to be minimally prepared.

As for the tunnel idea, that'd be pretty sweet if you had enough people with enough knowhow to get it done. Although, I think it's a delicate trade-off: the more people you gather, the more attention you attract. The more people running around, foraging during the day/night yields a greater risk of people getting sloppy or getting too comfortable. Some lazy person would forget to cover tracks or would unknowingly create a trail. Even a vigilant person might simply fall prey to chance. I'd be pissed if I put all that effort into a tunnel system only to be stumbled upon or smoked out (assuming for some reason you're up against intelligent opposition). I think that's why I'd prefer to be on the move with a small group that attracts little attention. Constantly be on the move, along migratory routes along which we'd already have set up supply caches. At least until I could start splitting my group up or communicating with other existing groups to establish a more permanent situation out in the open, because we'd be big enough by then.

Now that I read that over, sounds pretty much like the development of every other society in human history. damn, i am not unique. fail.

:)
 
Interesting

I see any nomadic/total foraging period as likely to be relatively short. Being a nomad is hard work, uncomfortable, very risky, and less productive than settled use of the land - and particularly hard on young children. The resources and knowledge that underpinned stable larger agrararian settlements will still be around. (ref Guns Germs and steel). People will start turnign land into more intesive productive space farily rapidly - and start settling down and forming linkages for mutual benefit and support. Of course there would be rough edges

So once overpopulation is addressed (6 months to 12 months - as lack of food would see to that)and the immediate environmental damage of any catastrophe stabilises I would see communities forming relatively rapidly

Hence I see the roving band hide in hole stage as beign 6 months to 2 years - not a sustainable situation. Beyond that it would be communities - of which mutual defence could be one of the forcing factors of course along with ultimatly food sharing, health and other specialist skills
 
Davyd said:
Interesting

I see any nomadic/total foraging period as likely to be relatively short. Being a nomad is hard work, uncomfortable, very risky, and less productive than settled use of the land - and particularly hard on young children. The resources and knowledge that underpinned stable larger agrararian settlements will still be around. (ref Guns Germs and steel). People will start turnign land into more intesive productive space farily rapidly - and start settling down and forming linkages for mutual benefit and support. Of course there would be rough edges

So once overpopulation is addressed (6 months to 12 months - as lack of food would see to that)and the immediate environmental damage of any catastrophe stabilises I would see communities forming relatively rapidly

Hence I see the roving band hide in hole stage as beign 6 months to 2 years - not a sustainable situation. Beyond that it would be communities - of which mutual defence could be one of the forcing factors of course along with ultimatly food sharing, health and other specialist skills
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Yes. I agree. I don't think a nomadic lifestyle would persist, but I do see it as a best strategy/necessary stage immediately post-catastrophe. Communities would indeed form rapidly....leading basically to the reconstruction of human civilization through conquest or cooperation. A world of new nations would emerge with probably more or less the same geographical boundaries, and this new age of people will all be ready to pick up the old toys and start it all over again :)

I can't believe I have yet to read Guns, Germs, and Steel. I need to get on that....


hmm...i think maybe I should have put this in the survival forum after all :)
 
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Fair enough - obviously terranin, climate, culture would be influencing factors

Guns germs and steel - Very intersting but If it makes it easier you only need to read the summary chapters up front and a few of the supporting chapters after that as they bcome repetitive while focussing on different elements of the mix

I have not read collapse yet - not sure I want to
 
I would have my Swamp Rat Crash Axe and Scrapyard Dog Father with me. Best combo for zombie or whatever else combo that I own.
 
in this senario i dont see my fat ass lasting very long anyway, so i could care less what i had at my disposal.
 
rksoon said:
Yes. I agree. I don't think a nomadic lifestyle would persist, but I do see it as a best strategy/necessary stage post-catastrophe. Communities would indeed form rapidly....leading basically to the reconstruction of human civilization through conquest or cooperation. A world of new nations would emerge with probably more or less the same geographical boundaries, and this new age of people will all be ready to pick up the old toys and start it all over again :)
I can't believe I have yet to read Guns, Germs, and Steel. I need to get on that....

Being Nomadic and Mobile may be necessary at first for some of us. Some of us in the Country can stay where we are. Maybe a small community can develop in community's or areas where an abundance of resources exist. But some may have to travel great distances to be go to a better location. I wouldn't to be alone surviving day to day on home grown crops such as in "I am Legend" At the end of the movie the women and child left and found a small community that developed out of survivors in Connecticut. Now If you seen that movie you know that the Ford Expedition looked brand new when it showed up at the gate. Unlikely but hey it's a movie and Ford pays well for product placement. More likely you would have to survive on your own either at home or in the woods, then maybe a small community 50m-500miles crops up somewhere and advertises for other people to join them. The roads, freeways and highways could be clogged with debris so your only choice may be to walk it or go on bike/motorcycle. Camping along the way. I know I would have go somewhere I don't live on a ranch or farm.:(
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An expensive bottle of Cognac, a Cuban Cigar, a little herb, a bottle of spring water, a good cut of steak, a handful of Thorazines, the necessary equipment and time to enjoy them all.:D

I mean it is the end of the world.:D
 
DrivebyTrucker said:
Being Nomadic and Mobile may be necessary at first for some of us. Some of us in the Country can stay where we are. Maybe a small community can develop in community's or areas where an abundance of resources exist. But some may have to travel great distances to be go to a better location. I wouldn't to be alone surviving day to day on home grown crops such as in "I am Legend" At the end of the movie the women and child left and found a small community that developed out of survivors in Connecticut. Now If you seen that movie you know that the Ford Expedition looked brand new when it showed up at the gate. Unlikely but hey it's a movie and Ford pays well for product placement. More likely you would have to survive on your own either at home or in the woods, then maybe a small community 50m-500miles crops up somewhere and advertises for other people to join them. The roads, freeways and highways could be clogged with debris so your only choice may be to walk it or go on bike/motorcycle. Camping along the way. I know I would have go somewhere I don't live on a ranch or farm.:(
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Best end of the world book (I've read so far): The Stand by Stephen King. Pretty much describes this exact thing.

I would have to be on the move for sure, too urban/suburban where I am. Wouldn't last a week. I would head straight for the wilderness, right down the concentration gradient until things mellowed out, then I'd start seeking messages and communications from other survivors who have started pulling it back together.
 
Aluminum softball bat.

Good balance, defeats all edged weapons in the right hands, and virtually indestructible.

Plus you can play a game with it once television is gone.
 
A large roll of electrical fence wire with 300 car batteries or generator with large supply of fuel (perimeter Defense around homestead)
3 dozen HO outdoor lights (keeps zombies :eek:at bay during night ie I AM Legend)
50 cal maching gun ( with LOTS of ammo)
1500 throwing knives (backup zombie killer IF I run out of ammo)
100 cartons of cigs (habbits never die)
30 bic lighters (would quit smoking by the time my 2 sticks started a fire)
500 twinkies (they last forever)
600 cases of Bud (makes great bartering:thumbup:)
 
i would take a scrap yard yard hook as well as a leatherman, maybe a SOG fusion jungle primative
V-6 has it right though, the Bible would be a wise move
 
I am not sure why so many think they would have to be out on the move, I know I would bunker up and band together with my family and others in my community that were like-minded. I simply don't see why I would willingly leave a lifetime supply of ammo behind me just to try to scrap out a living with a knife. On the move you become a target and are limited to what you can carry with you. A community care take care of it's members, has enough people to keep watches and area patrols, can garden and share chores. They can set and man the necessary OP/LPs and protect their base of operations.

A great book that describes this scenario (except the zombie part...lol) is TEOTWAWKI. Main difference is the members lived in the Windy city...I would want out of there too but I live in a small town in the midwest on purpose. Nope...I would stay put and work towards rebuilding.
 
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