So since BM uses the Spyderhole.......

jill jackson said:
Spyderco does have protection for the round hole.
Anybody who wants to use it needs to license it from Spyderco.
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No. For utility use, the patent expired. Anyone can use a round hole as a knife opening feature.



This was discussed ad nauseam when the VEX was introduced.
 
I agree that Sal runs a much more user oriented company. It is very enjoyable to interact with the owner on forums and actually watch as our input is put into the marketplace. Benchmade/Les certainly does not do this. They do make an outstanding product though, so I cut them some slack and recognize that it is his company to run as he chooses. I use lots of both companies products and they each have their strengths. As for the axis lock, I honestly can't understand the bashing of this design. I have heard complaints of binding with materials getting in the exposed workings of the design, omega spring failures, etc. I have watched videos of that Polish guy and his dog digging in the sand while pouring sand in the exposed axis lock. I have personally used my knife in sandy, dirty, gritty conditions and if anything find that the exposed axis lock is easier to keep clean than most other designs. I had one omega spring failure on one knife. My original 940 that I flipped a ridiculous number of times over the years just because it was so smooth and unique at the time. The spring didn't break it just came undone from the axis pin. The second, redundant, spring performed just as expected and the knife functioned perfectly until I sent it in for warranty repair. Just my opinion, but I think axis locks end up being opened/closed an order of magnitude more than liner locks, lockbacks, etc. because of the "cool" factor. I don't do it nearly as much anymore but those first couple BM's got flicked thousands of times extra than what was necessary for use. Now that I'm older and used to the axis, I usually only flick it open when I actually need a knife. I would say to anyone, buy an axis lock with complete confidence. If you need a stronger/better lock get a fixed blade.

Pete
 
orthogonal1 said:
No. For utility use, the patent expired. Anyone can use a round hole as a knife opening feature.


This was discussed ad nauseam when the VEX was introduced.
Click to expand...

The patent has expired, which was on a one hand opener, not a hole.

However the trademark for a round hole (shape) is in force and trademarks do not expire.

Regarding Benchmade and the use of our trademarked hole shape, all I can say is that "Spyderco and Benchmade have an agreement".

sal
 
Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery---at least in this case. Benchmade using the SpyderHole is better than Chinese fakes using the SpyderHole.

Other reputable companies using the features should prove to say just how effective the innovations of Spyderco are, in a sense.
 
J85909266 said:
This makes me cringe every time I read it.
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Why? Competition and refinement of designs benefits us all. The hole is my favorite form of opening device. Now more knives have it. Spyderco is probably making money from the deal so both companies are producing a profit.

Spyderco uses great features designed by other makers. Waves, frame locks, etc. Those have only added to the diversity of Spyderco's line.

Benchmade is not my favorite knife company by any means, but they produce well built stuff and are American owned with a lot of products made here. Just because they aren't your pet knife doesn't mean that they shouldn't be successful.
 
Yeah I love the hole. I wish my Sebenza had a hole. That's why I'm excited about the new Sage coming out .
 
I like the UNcaged ball bearing lock as much as the AXIS.
I prefer AXIS to the caged ball bearing lock(the plastic cage just feels a bit "cheap" somehow---my only complaint about the P'kal).
 
no-i highly doubt it...i mean, you can't really compare a hole in a blade with an axis lock-i'm not saying the hole in the blade is bad, believe me i love it, but there's just such a huge difference there
 
J85909266 said:
This makes me cringe every time I read it.
Click to expand...

Makes me cringe, too, but probably for different reasons.

Personally, I await the patent on the axis-lock to expire. I think there is room for improvement on the design and I am under the impression the patent is applied overly broad (these things happen).

But then, there are other lock designs that are pretty good (and that I like), the ball-bearing lock being one.
 
Axis lock is for sure my favorite lock, but right there on it's heels is the good ole spyderco lock-back... Nothing like a stout, sturdy, fixed-blade like Mini Manix lock back...Folks it just doesn't get much more solid than that...Though I am looking forward to the ball lock manix, I'm sure it will be just as much of a tank as all manix are.....
 
TFin04 said:
:thumbup:

I came close with the BM 710, but didn't like the blade shape, grind or ergonomics. Likewise the handle was slippery, ergo's weren't great and the jimping was laughable. It was no Spyderco, that's for sure!
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I like the 710 alittle better than the Millie, thats why I traded you.. But don't get me wrong, I love the Milie..
Only a few things I see on the Millie I don't care for:
Pocket clip can only be in one position, (tip down at that)
Its a Liner Lock ( I hate em), though spyderco's liner is second to none
It is a uncomfortable knife to carry in pocket, (thats just me)
The feel of the Millie in hand is awesome and the blade shape is great..

I just think the 710 has alittle more going for it, but the millie was designed for a purpose and that purpose doesn't have to meet everyone's needs... Still a great knife and one of my favorites..
 
A spyderco with an Axis lock? It could work for me.......If Sal could make it THIN. Which is my main gripe of Benchmade Axis (they are too THICK).
 
hissatsu1 said:
I like the 710 alittle better than the Millie, thats why I traded you.. But don't get me wrong, I love the Milie..
Only a few things I see on the Millie I don't care for:
Pocket clip can only be in one position, (tip down at that)
Its a Liner Lock ( I hate em), though spyderco's liner is second to none
It is a uncomfortable knife to carry in pocket, (thats just me)
The feel of the Millie in hand is awesome and the blade shape is great..
Click to expand...

I don't mind tip down and probably wouldn't change the clip if I had the option.
I'm not a liner lock fan either, but Spyderco does it right.
I like big knives. :)

It's hard finding a solid 4" flat ground knife from a good maker. Hope you like the 710. It's a nice knife, just not for me.
 
TFin04 said:
Why? Competition and refinement of designs benefits us all. The hole is my favorite form of opening device. Now more knives have it. Spyderco is probably making money from the deal so both companies are producing a profit.

Spyderco uses great features designed by other makers. Waves, frame locks, etc. Those have only added to the diversity of Spyderco's line.

Benchmade is not my favorite knife company by any means, but they produce well built stuff and are American owned with a lot of products made here. Just because they aren't your pet knife doesn't mean that they shouldn't be successful.
Click to expand...
You may be misunderstanding what I am implying, as the issue was long and deep when it came about, but I'll not further elaborate, out of respect.

I will say that I view the hole as a logo or an insignia, not a function. Other hole style openers can work just as well if designed right, and all companies are free to use them.

When I see a BM with a Spyder Hole, I see a Reebok with a Nike logo.
 
J85909266 said:
This makes me cringe every time I read it.
Click to expand...

+1 more. "An agreement" can mean a lot of things, many of which aren't good. "If you agree not to take us to court over trademark infringement, we agree not to bankrupt you with legal fees" is an agreement. It isn't fair, it isn't ethical, but it is an agreement.
 
To me, the Benchmade versus Spyderco animosity is reminiscent of the old thing in the 90's where you weren't supposed to like metal if you liked alternative.:rolleyes:
Seems awfully silly to me.
 
yablanowitz said:
+1 more. "An agreement" can mean a lot of things, many of which aren't good. "If you agree not to take us to court over trademark infringement, we agree not to bankrupt you with legal fees" is an agreement. It isn't fair, it isn't ethical, but it is an agreement.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

Wow, I couldn't have said it any better.
 
The agreement thing does sound uniquely vague and ominous. It seems to me that most agreements of this nature between any two given companies would result in relatively non-ambiguous dealings--"They want what we have, so they gave us money and we gave it to them."

At any rate, many have criticized the BBL for lack of one-hand closing. While it takes significantly more practice than on an axis, it's certainly possible to do. I can easily do it with my old Dodo and D`Allara. You CAN, in fact, close a BBL with just one finger on the ball (not on both sides) but it's difficult. I can do it on the D`allara.

To close with one hand easily and quickly on a BBL, you have to pinch the ball with your thumb and your index finger, then brace the lowest point of the handle against the palm of your hand. Open your fingers and make sure they're out of the way. Then pull the BB down with your fingers and flick the blade closed.

As per omega spring failures, they do occasionally happen, as is sometimes noted on this board, but in most of these cases the redundant spring functioned adequately.

I played with Cold Steel's axis-ripoff Recon today, which was actually a pretty well put together knife, and it seemed to work well.

At any rate, I feel no need for axis-lock Spydercos beyond the existing BBL.

I'm not particularly interested in the Manix BBL, I'd love to see a mini-Manix BBL. I hate lockbacks, which is what's prevented me from buying one so far.
 
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