Solder vs. Epoxy for pinned SS bolster

AVigil said:
Horsewright Horsewright

Yep, you can put on the primer on one side and let it dry and it can even be up to 30 days later.

Apply the 324 to the other side and press together and hold for about 3 minutes and it is done.

Speed bonder 324 gives you a few minutes , 325 and 326 I think you only have 1 minute.
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Thanks that good to know. We still need to get together at the ranch!

Cushing H. said:
And really cool tack and leather goods!!!
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Thanks, in that pic above I made my leggings, spur straps, belt, holster, (knife and sheath above my left front pocket so ya can't seem em in this shot), reins, headstall and curbstrap. That also keeps me out of the bars.
 
Horsewright said:
Thanks that good to know. We still need to get together at the ranch!



Thanks, in that pic above I made my leggings, spur straps, belt, holster, (knife and sheath above my left front pocket so ya can't seem em in this shot), reins, headstall and curbstrap. That also keeps me out of the bars.
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You're basically a wizard...
 
I use Google flex but hate the wait times. Epoxy 1 bolster, with 24 hours drill holes through 1st bolster then epoxy 2nd bolster and wait another 24hrs before redrilling hols, pinning and peeing. I do it this way so i can set my bolsters in the perfect location. I've used jb weld on many other projects and am always amazed by it so I do intend to do my next project like that.

For soldering I hear that by using a pencil and colouring in front of the bolster it helps with solder clean up. I haven't tried this nor have i had success with soldering.
 
scott kozub said:
Epoxy 1 bolster, with 24 hours drill holes through 1st bolster then epoxy 2nd bolster and wait another 24hrs before redrilling hols, pinning
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I guess ihad envisioned pre drilling the bolsters before gluing, truing up the front and back with bolsters connected, but not on blade, and fnishing the front of the bolster before gluing (gets the alignment correct and avoids sanding the front of the bolster when on blade)
 
I superglue my bolsters together and do 90% of the shaping and completely finish the fronts before epoxy in the first to the knife and drilling. I do it this way because I found that too much shaping after being peened would give me half moons. Only takes 10 minutes or so to make the bolsters but 2 days to attach them.

I have seen it done by gluing the bolsters together placing the blade on top to drill through both. Then shape and finish them before epoxy them to the handle. An advantage of this method is the ability to use the pins to keep them aligned. I have tried this but had some disasters with broken bits (runout issue on drill press) so I found drilling 1 bolster at a time was safer. Then I found it safest to drill 1 on the blade, epoxy the second then drill through both.

Im not advocating my method, it just works me and my setup and crappy drill press
 
scott kozub said:
I have tried this but had some disasters with broken bits (runout issue on drill press) so I found drilling 1 bolster at a time was safer. Then I found it safest to drill 1 on the blade, epoxy the second then drill through both.Im not advocating my method, it just works me and my setup and crappy drill press
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Drill one bolster, then superglue together and use those holes as a guide to drill the second bolster.

I like to peck drill so the hole does not wander.

You can then adhere the bolsters, insert wax pins, clamp and let dry.

Then when dry you can tap out the wax pins, clean holes, and then shape the bolsters to completion.

Taper holes

Insert pins and peen and sand off pin heads for an invisible pin
 
Horsewright said:
I really just smack em with a hammer like everybody else does. Of course you deform the top but you are grinding the bolster down some anyhoo to blend handle and bolster and to get all hammer marks out and you still have the taper If you don't go really thin which I don't. Really does work
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I really don t see how that could work ? When we peen pins they expand , if you do that on mosaic pins something MUST give ...like epoxy will crack , the outer tube deformation ...etc . Or you smack them for no reason at all and when you grind them down to match bolster you get that perfect look ??
 
J. Keeton said:
You're basically a wizard...
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Thanks, diversity is the key!

Cushing H. said:
I guess ihad envisioned pre drilling the bolsters before gluing, truing up the front and back with bolsters connected, but not on blade, and fnishing the front of the bolster before gluing (gets the alignment correct and avoids sanding the front of the bolster when on blade)
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I have the bolster pieces cut and finished on the front first. I take the fronts up to a 400 grit matt finish. I then clamp with Visegrips one side (the shortest one) to the blade. I use the holes in the tang to drill through the bolster. I release the bolster and have a 80 grit PSA disc on a flat piece of tile. I rub any drilling burrs off the inside of the bolster. Using a second pair of Visegrips thats already set up for this part I clamp the two bolsters together and use the holes in the first to drill the holes in the second. While still clamped together I grab my punch and taper the holes by smacking it in each hole, getting all four. I then release the bolsters and run them over the PSA again getting rid of any burrs. Each bolster piece has a # on it in Sharpie that corresponds with a number on the tape of each blade. Each bolster also wears a R or L on it. This orientates the top and the bottom and the front and the back. So when attaching for drilling or peening, the L piece goes on the left side of the blade just like you would read the L, not upside down or anything. The wife will come and help me put on the bolsters. She does the JB Welding and I do the peening. She mixes up the JB Weld on some magazine paper. We use small broken pieces of bandsaw blades as tile trowels and use the teeth side to spread the JB on the inside face of the bolster pieces. She'll then start the pins through and generally set down the knife with the bolsters pretty flush and in position. She never gets two knives a head of me because we've got to get them back in the right spot with their corresponding handle materials on the bench. Occasionally there will be one where the pin is sticky and I have to tap that in with a hammer. So I have the 9" flat disc going just outside the shop. If needed I'll grind any excess pin material off wanting them just proud on one side. I'll then peen using the flat of the hammer first. I'll get them right checking front and back alignment from top and bottom. If any adjustments need to be made they can be at this stage easily by tapping one side or the other into alignment and then using the flat again. I often work with just 1/2" stock as bolster material on certain knife models. Half mooning these guys can be pretty easy if you are not careful. I have several different size ballpeen hammers and I'll use a smaller one on smaller stock. Light easy taps with the round face till I see that pin edge blend all the way around, both sides and then cleanup with a paper Dixie cup full of Qtips soaked in WD 40. I usually use two per knife. I do want enough JB on the pieces that it kinda comes out all the way around when peeing but not so much it goes flying around. Too much and somehow it seems to get under your tape and on the finished blade, like every !@#$%^%$ time. I set the knife back on the other bench with its handle scales and pick up another she has ready for me. Takes us about an hour to do 30 to 35 or so. Any half mooning, easier not to do it, then to fix it, can be cleaned up later with a safety file on the front and I'll use a regular file on the back side of the bolsters. This ensures a flush fit too with the handles. Pretty much it.
 
Natlek said:
I really don t see how that could work ? When we peen pins they expand , if you do that on mosaic pins something MUST give ...like epoxy will crack , the outer tube deformation ...etc . Or you smack them for no reason at all and when you grind them down to match bolster you get that perfect look ??
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It works just like a solid pin does. You deform the solid pin when peening, you deform a mosaic when peening. You clean up the bolster from peening by grinding with a solid pin, you clean up the mosaic pin and bolster by grinding. When done and clean the mosaic pin face is still a half a hair to a hair larger than the original stock, just like a solid pin. Remember the holes are tapered, the pin has to fill the hole by deforming.
 
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Horsewright- it sounds like you manually align the fronts of the two sides of the bolster before drilling into the second side? Do you see a downside to drilling the bolsters. Then connecting with temp pins and finishing the front and backs - thus giving automatic alignment?
 
Cushing H. said:
Horsewright- it sounds like you manually align the fronts of the two sides of the bolster before drilling into the second side? Do you see a downside to drilling the bolsters. Then connecting with temp pins and finishing the front and backs - thus giving automatic alignment?
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Yeah I put em flat on the front face on a finished granite surface plate to clamp together. No I do not and it kinda has me wondering if that might be better. I'm thinking...… course I think some of the minor misalignment comes from a push through fit on the pin. There's just a half hair of movement.
 
AVigil said:
Drill one bolster, then superglue together and use those holes as a guide to drill the second bolster.

I like to peck drill so the hole does not wander.

You can then adhere the bolsters, insert wax pins, clamp and let dry.

Then when dry you can tap out the wax pins, clean holes, and then shape the bolsters to completion.

Taper holes

Insert pins and peen and sand off pin heads for an invisible pin
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Put this here in the stickys. I have had suuch mixed luck with pinning and peening at the same time as epoxying.

Just tapering, pinning and peening after the shaping there is no contamination from the epoxy or whatever for blending the pins.
 
Horsewright I would give that speedbonder a whirl. I've used it only on my last 5 knives and my Gflex and superglue has sat unused...

It's a little different thinking your way through the order of operations when you can put just the epoxy on with the pins.

Speedbonder went on the blade tang and pins. Activator spray went on the scales and pinholes( the pinholes are likely not necessary)

I also did a little tiny bit of activator on the pins tips after it was clamped. 5 minutes later I am grinding the handle!
 
Maelstrom78 said:
Horsewright I would give that speedbonder a whirl. I've used it only on my last 5 knives and my Gflex and superglue has sat unused...

It's a little different thinking your way through the order of operations when you can put just the epoxy on with the pins.

Speedbonder went on the blade tang and pins. Activator spray went on the scales and pinholes( the pinholes are likely not necessary)

I also did a little tiny bit of activator on the pins tips after it was clamped. 5 minutes later I am grinding the handle!
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For those concerned about performance over time, especially with your reputation on the line with customers, i would urge caution in jumping right to the speedbonder approach. It sounds good from a mfg point of view, but unless there is solid information on the strength/robustness of the bond over time, you might be heading for problems
 
Cushing H. said:
For those concerned about performance over time, especially with your reputation on the line with customers, i would urge caution in jumping right to the speedbonder approach. It sounds good from a mfg point of view, but unless there is solid information on the strength/robustness of the bond over time, you might be heading for problems
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Speedbonder has long been used in industry and is formulated for impact and impact strength. With g flex epoxy you can knock off the guard with a hammer, with 324 speedbonder you are going to destroy the guard before the bond lets go. Guess how I know that?

But keep in mind the adhesive is used to "seal" against moisture and contaminants and the pins actually are the fasteners, and they have a few thousand years reputation as being good enough.
 
All good points ... especially about the pins doing the heavy lifting (if they are peened) - i was not thinking about that aspect. I am too used to thinking of adhesive as, well, an adhesive. :-(
 
C Cushing H.

Soldering or using adhesive on guards and bolsters is rather new procedure. The first person to do something about it was John Nelson Cooper in 1967 who started to braze guards to knives which lead to epoxy and solder use by others.

Loctite speedbonder is probably the most advance adhesive to be used in knives and is currently being used my many of the top custom knifemakers.
 
I have looked at Speedbonder 312 in the past and didn't consider it more than high grade CA. The recommendation of the 324 formula made me look again. The data sheet is impressive. I really like the temperature range and shear strength. I ordered a bottle to try out on some projects.

My thoughts would be to pin ( but not peen) and glue up the bolsters, using brass pins and regular CA. After shaping the bolster, remove the pins and bolsters, clean up the surfaces, and reassemble with the proper pin material and 324 resin.
 
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