Solid $20 knife?

[craytab]

I guess I'll see if I can gather up an some extra money for a real Spyderco Tenacious or something like that. Sucks that these things are so pricey but I don't want to support thieves that rob other company's designs.

That is a great thing to hear. Anything with an Axis lock from SRM, Ganzo, Navy, Bee, or Enlan is direct theft of a patented device. Buying one is to support counterfeiting.

For $5 bucks more you can get the Ontario Utillitac II or Rat. Both are fine knives and they are backed by a good company and have warranties.

 

[Hackenslash]

HK knives are made by Benchmade, and SRM.

Source? And how about a source on your earlier claim that SRM makes the Byrd line for Spyderco? Yeah, didn't think you had one. These are more internet rumors that fall in line with Bigfoot and alien abductions. Please don't speak as an authority when you have no backup for what you say. It discredits us all.

As you can see, Desertrobot, you've touched on a sensitive nerve in the knife community. There are as many people here ready to make unsubstantiated claims as there are knives to chose from.

At the end of the day, it's your choice what you carry in your pocket. I hope we've helped you make that decision and shared just a little bit of information concerning the convoluted state of Knives in America.

Whatever you choose to carry, do so in good health and we hope you come back and share your experience with us.

 

[ebidis]

That is a great thing to hear. Anything with an Axis lock from SRM, Ganzo, Navy, Bee, or Enlan is direct theft of a patented device. Buying one is to support counterfeiting.

For $5 bucks more you can get the Ontario Utillitac II or Rat. Both are fine knives and they are backed by a good company and have warranties.

This is true, and I have seen only very positive reviews on the Utillitac II, and I own a couple of Rat 1 folders so I can personally attest that they are a good quality folder.

The Esee Zancudo and Avispa are also good ones.

 

[Etna]

The whole copying thing with SRM and Ganzo are certainly legit when we talk about patented features like Axis locks. SRM has gotten away from Axis locks. But let's put the copying thing in perspective:

HK knives are made by Benchmade, and SRM. You'd think Benchmade would be more put out by that.
Schrade copied the iconic Buck 110 decades ago, and people just love that copy.
Schrade recently copied a Chris Reeve design.
Microtech copies other US companies, but charges 40x what a SRM or Ganzo do.

So I get the issue, but I don't get why $10 knives are so upsetting when SRM and Ganzo represent the least profitable examples of this behavior. Why is Microtech even in business when their products are sold pretty much to knife collectors who actually care about these distinction.


I realize I'm bordering on fanboy with the SRM products, but after growing up with Gerber and Buck plastic lockbacks, dealing with quality issues on SOG and owning too many Spydercos and Cold Steel knives that aren't made of anything nicer than AUS-6, the four SRM knives I've owned have been such a pleasure. Good steel, centered well, mechanism works well and looks good. Most of the ones I've bought are completely original SRM designs.

There seems to be a real bias on this forum that seems to be based on "truisms" like "you get what you pay for" that are no longer true. Buying a quality product directly from the source country is a culmination of the US consumer behavior that destroyed the US manufacturing base and emptied rural America of small retail. We have screwed ourselves in our desire for cheaper and cheaper consumer goods - so we might as well enjoy our $10 knives. We've earned it.

Unfortunately, it seems that copying is okay as long as it is done by an American company.

Benchmade has at least one particular product that uses a large, very familiar looking hole.

And let's not forget the Shirogorov 'inspired' designs made by a few well known brands. All acceptable, but when a Chinese company does it everyone screams bloody murder.

Anyway, i placed an order for an SR knife in 3cr13 steel just to see what kind of results i can get under light use. If it really is unsharpenable after the factory edge dulls, it's just going to go straight to the trash. For $6 my wallet is not going to hurt too much. hopefully.

 

[swonut]

I picked up a buck 721 at wally world for 15.00 on clearance last week. It seems to be a lot of knife for the price, even at full price. USA made.

 

[ebidis]

I would say "no". 3Cr13 and 420J2 don't really "sharpen". You can buy a Sanrenmu with 8Cr for $6.



The whole copying thing with SRM and Ganzo are certainly legit when we talk about patented features like Axis locks. SRM has gotten away from Axis locks. But let's put the copying thing in perspective:

HK knives are made by Benchmade, and SRM. You'd think Benchmade would be more put out by that.
Schrade copied the iconic Buck 110 decades ago, and people just love that copy.
Schrade recently copied a Chris Reeve design.
Microtech copies other US companies, but charges 40x what a SRM or Ganzo do.

So I get the issue, but I don't get why $10 knives are so upsetting when SRM and Ganzo represent the least profitable examples of this behavior. Why is Microtech even in business when their products are sold pretty much to knife collectors who actually care about these distinction.


I realize I'm bordering on fanboy with the SRM products, but after growing up with Gerber and Buck plastic lockbacks, dealing with quality issues on SOG and owning too many Spydercos and Cold Steel knives that aren't made of anything nicer than AUS-6, the four SRM knives I've owned have been such a pleasure. Good steel, centered well, mechanism works well and looks good. Most of the ones I've bought are completely original SRM designs.

There seems to be a real bias on this forum that seems to be based on "truisms" like "you get what you pay for" that are no longer true. Buying a quality product directly from the source country is a culmination of the US consumer behavior that destroyed the US manufacturing base and emptied rural America of small retail. We have screwed ourselves in our desire for cheaper and cheaper consumer goods - so we might as well enjoy our $10 knives. We've earned it.

There is a difference between copying designs (not necessarily ethical, but not outright illegal), and outright theft of patents, and/or copyrights. Chinese companies (not just knife companies) have been infamous for all three, and they don't care, because there is nothing non Chinese companies can do about it.

When did SRM move away from Axis locks? The OP clearly stated that he was considering a model with an Axis lock.

 

[Etna]

When did SRM move away from Axis locks? The OP clearly stated that he was considering a model with an Axis lock.

Quite some time already. SRM has more than a hundred products, and off the top of my head i only remembered seeing four or five of them using the axis lock.

 

[RX-79G]

Source? And how about a source on your earlier claim that SRM makes the Byrd line for Spyderco? Yeah, didn't think you had one. These are more internet rumors that fall in line with Bigfoot and alien abductions. Please don't speak as an authority when you have no backup for what you say. It discredits us all.

As you can see, Desertrobot, you've touched on a sensitive nerve in the knife community. There are as many people here ready to make unsubstantiated claims as there are knives to chose from.

Identical in every way to:

Owned them, compared them in the little stupid details. No one bothers to copy something so un-famous so precisely.


As far as substantiation of the Byrd claim, Sal has had literally years to correct/refute that claim made on forums he is active on. He doesn't need to say who does make Byrd, but given the ire that some folks direct at SRM, I'm pretty surprised he's let this "false" claim stand for so long.

It is also rumored that an old CRKT copy that SRM sells is the real thing, because they make those, too. That seems like a pretty easy one to figure out for anyone with the CRKT model and $9.

 

[TripleB67]

Check out the Byrd Robin 2 in G10, it's ~$23 I think, it's a great knife.

I'm probably the newest, and least knowledgeable, poster here, but I agree with this 100%!

I recently got into quality knives and order a Ontario Rat II, CRKT Pazoda II, and the Byrd Robin II...the Robin is by far and away my favorite of the three. It's the sharpest of the three, has the best handle of the three, a better size than the other two (Pazoda II is a great knife for $13 but just too small; Rat II is also a tremendous knife but a bit too large for me to carry at work), and it's just a blast to use (and play with).

Again, take my opinion for what it's worth, but I absolutely love this knife!!!

TripleB67

 

[DeadboxHero]

Limiting yourself to a $20 knife is tough. It's akin dropping out of college a day before graduating.

Your so close to high value, high quality knives at $30


It's just a shame.

A knife is a knife I can understand that.

But understand the soul of the knife is how its heat treated.

These bottom of the barrel, Chinese knives are not receiving very good heat treating protocols.

They also lack consistently.

What that translates into is a knife that sharpens poorly and holds and an edge poorly.

The structure just isn't there.

I wouldn't waste $20 to save $10.


That's just an over obsessed knife dudes opinion.

Lots of dudes are happy with these srm knives.

Dull but happy

There are exceptions

The Bryd line is great. But I'd stear clear from wholesale knives direct from China the QC is very poor

 

[RX-79G]

These bottom of the barrel, Chinese knives are not receiving very good heat treating protocols.

Source, please?

 

[DeadboxHero]

Source, please?

Busted!

I deduced that.

I sharpen lots of knives from the highest end to the low end.

Something is missing from the lowest end.

Have you noticed 420hc can perform differently when made by a respectable brand?

Have I sent these knives off to labs for testing?
No,

Have I brushed up on my Mandarin and traveled to China to see what takes place? No

Have I sharpened used enough knives to formulate my own opinion?
Yes.


But you are correct.

I have no proof of how they actually make poor quality knives. I'm more worried about what makes good quality knives.

 

[Hackenslash]

As far as substantiation of the Byrd claim, Sal has had literally years to correct/refute that claim made on forums he is active on. He doesn't need to say who does make Byrd, but given the ire that some folks direct at SRM, I'm pretty surprised he's let this "false" claim stand for so long.

Please stop polluting this thread with convenient, isolated factoids. You claimed that SRM MAKES H&K knives and you respond with a knife that hasn't been offered for five years. Dude, there's no disputing the fact that AT ONE POINT IN TIME SamRemMu made knives for Benchmade. That's how they got the Axis lock. There's not much disputing that fact. Benchmade in fact confirms it if you read deeply enough into the manufacturer forums.

You said SRM makes H&K. I asked for source. You responded with a knife that's historically acknowledged but insignificant. MAKES is present tense. Please answer to the claim you made.

In terms of your claims about Sal's dishonesty, or rather silence in the face of honesty, I hope you know he's a regular visitor to these fora?

 

[craytab]

This is true, and I have seen only very positive reviews on the Utillitac II, and I own a couple of Rat 1 folders so I can personally attest that they are a good quality folder.

The Esee Zancudo and Avispa are also good ones.

I have a Utilitac II and a Zancudo and both are very nice. The Utillitac II in particular has seen a lot of use. The big selling point of getting a foregin made blade from a US company is you get the support of the US company. You will not find that with SRM or any of its variants/counterparts.

There is a difference between copying designs (not necessarily ethical, but not outright illegal), and outright theft of patents, and/or copyrights. Chinese companies (not just knife companies) have been infamous for all three, and they don't care, because there is nothing non Chinese companies can do about it.

When did SRM move away from Axis locks? The OP clearly stated that he was considering a model with an Axis lock.

You can still find SRM knives with the Axis lock. It is also hard to tell who SRM is and who they aren't. New SRM branded knives don't have the axis lock that I have seen though. Still no support so it is worth the extra few bucks to buy from reputable companies. Ganzo is the big rip off artist in the budget blades these days. Who knows if they are part of SRM or not. You buy Ganzo you support counterfeiting.

And I do believe one of the Chinese companies (likely) SRM, made the redclass and H&K knives for Benchmade. I don't think they ever had axis locks though. The point is moot though as they never had the right to rip Benchmade off.

 

[RX-79G]

No one needs to make any special claims about the miracle quality of SRM products. But in the same thread we have one person loudly proclaiming that unsubstantiated rumors of the Sanrenmu/Byrd connection aren't fit to repeat, while someone else makes similarly unsubstantiated claims that everyone is much more comfortable with.

SRM has no brand panache, warranty, survivalist spokesmen or thrilling packaging. No designers to meditate about, no cool factory tours and no Sal G. like web presence. You'd think being a cheap, no-name alternative to other cheap name brand Chinese knives was some sort of major sin with the lengths people will go to make a product look bad, despite the fact that most everyone who owns one really likes them. Its like getting upset about buying a Huyndai.

I assure you, SRM is no threat to your hobby or whatever.

 

[craytab]

Please stop polluting this thread with convenient, isolated factoids. You claimed that SRM MAKES H&K knives and you respond with a knife that hasn't been offered for five years. Dude, there's no disputing the fact that AT ONE POINT IN TIME SamRemMu made knives for Benchmade. That's how they got the Axis lock. There's not much disputing that fact. Benchmade in fact confirms it if you read deeply enough into the manufacturer forums.

You said SRM makes H&K. I asked for source. You responded with a knife that's historically acknowledged but insignificant. MAKES is present tense. Please answer to the claim you made.

In terms of your claims about Sal's dishonesty, or rather silence in the face of honesty, I hope you know he's a regular visitor to these fora?

Don't get upset. This is what this particular poster does.

 

[stabman]

Go fixed blade...buy a Buck Paklite.
Use the saved cash to buy one or both of my books.

Now back to our regularly scheduled talking about each other rather than the actual thread topic.

 

[stabman]

Or a Buck Vantage...about $20 as well.

Just shop around, and you can find an okay knife for $20.

Expand your budget more, and you expand your selection of quality products.
It ain't rocket science.

 

[RX-79G]

Please stop polluting this thread with convenient, isolated factoids. You claimed that SRM MAKES H&K knives and you respond with a knife that hasn't been offered for five years. Dude, there's no disputing the fact that AT ONE POINT IN TIME SamRemMu made knives for Benchmade. That's how they got the Axis lock. There's not much disputing that fact. Benchmade in fact confirms it if you read deeply enough into the manufacturer forums.

You said SRM makes H&K. I asked for source. You responded with a knife that's historically acknowledged but insignificant. MAKES is present tense. Please answer to the claim you made.

In terms of your claims about Sal's dishonesty, or rather silence in the face of honesty, I hope you know he's a regular visitor to these fora?

I bought that HK knife last year. I don't know what the special formula is for presenting a fact, but it is a fact that this is an easy to find SRM model that was being sold recently at Big 5 sports with an HK label.

What's the problem? That it happened in the past, and Benchmade didn't react in the past or since?


I doubt I will ever understand your arbitrary rules enough to respond correctly.




And I must say it is crazy that you're all pumped up that SRM making Byrd is a rumor, but you're saying that SRM made some Benchmade products? That hardly seems like a downgrade to SRM's perceived status as a higher end contractor for US companies.

 

[stabman]

As far as substantiation of the Byrd claim, Sal has had literally years to correct/refute that claim made on forums he is active on. He doesn't need to say who does make Byrd, but given the ire that some folks direct at SRM, I'm pretty surprised he's let this "false" claim stand for so long.

Sal posted this:

"SanRenMu is as knife manufacturer in China. They make some models for Spyderco.

High quality is a very broad subject. At this time there are no really "high quality" ( by my standards) steels made in China, so that would be in question. SanRenMu is trying to improve the quality of the steel they use, but they're not there yet. The many other "high quality" areas are a subject in itself and probably not relevant to the subject at hand.

SanRenMu makes none of the byrd models."

Here:

https://www.spyderco.com/forumII/vi...sid=60a98d010d0ba1472f0e51a8a4edbb4f&start=20

Took me less than 2 minutes to find this "hidden" answer...
Guess you didn't really want the actual answer, eh?