Something important to me and to us all

Joined
Oct 9, 2003
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I have come to realize that I believed in a great many things living in America without really having investigated them and known them fully, in-depth, fully.
Living in Japan caused me to feel an real urgency about understanding myself and my beliefs in a real, nuts and bolts kind of way.

Religion, politics, love, fear, how to sing, the way to spin a rope like Will Rogers, how to draw, flyfishing, everything a person would have feelings or interest or beliefs in or about. Having had a lot of time in between classes, I set out to complete many of my old passing interests.

One of those things was a passing interest in UFO's. I had always been interested, but with my new "scientific" curiosity I decided to find out what could be found out. I decided to try and use only the most credible data I could get and make my conclusions based upon authentic, reliable sources.

After two years of study, I concluded that, basically, UFO's are real, and they have been visiting us for at least two thousand years. I further concluded that there is nothing magical about them and that there are real, understandable forces at work here, both physical and biological.

Many people who have not done any serious (library) research assume that there are only a few reports here and there, all fantastic imaginings of the bored and the immature and the drunken.
There are, in fact, tens of thousands of reports and they all bear very similar qualities. It's almost boring.

Report after report after report describe the same appearance and behavior.
Engineers, pilots, police, the list goes on and on. The reports coincide temporally and spatially. That is known as a "concentration." That means that people in a general location report similar things during the same time period which shows up clearly as a "spike" on a UFO reports VS time graph.

I have restricted my research to basically two major sources:

NASA Chief Scientist Paul Hill's book "Unconventional Flying Objects: A scientific analysis"

AND

NICAP/FAA reports

Most people dont realize that airport runways have to be shut down and that has to be reported to all airports worldwide to let incoming aircraft know that the takeoff/landing runways have been changed. I used to work for Bombardier Aerospace and twice this happened because of "unknown objects" hovering over runways.

Like it or not, understand it or not, defy the "laws of physics" or not, this is a real thing. Real vehicles with real people inside.

Why is that important? Because the technology would give us so much... Telescopes of unimaginable power, touch-free beds for burn victims, we could do away with wheelchairs, no more traffic accidents, 100% radiation shielding, and the obvious aerospace applications, not to mention the million applications I havent imagined and the mind boggling cultural exchange between Earth and her neighbors.

If this makes you uncomfortable and you feel the need to make a joke, then go ahead. Just try to remember that I take this very seriously and I have put a lot of time into my research. This is real and this is important.

Now ,what's next?
I guess I'll give you my data, if you want to see it.
 
Thank you, Danny, for your thread. You've done the research, and the subject is fascinating. I'm sure a lot of forumites would like to learn more.



munk
 
Something happens. Four people witness it -- I'm one of them. We're all told to write down what we've seen.

Afterwards? Four completely different reports, and the videotape doesn't match any of them.

What I see is not necessarily what you see. That other guy probably saw something else. And when we check the videotape, we'll find out that none of us were 100% correct. Taken together, we'll be lucky if our reports were 70% correct. This is well understood in some circles but most people don't realize it. Not opinion, merely fact. I don't buy completely into something unless I saw it or the camera saw it...and if we both saw it, I check the tape just to be safe.

And that's what bothers me about the whole UFO thing: we have some amazing personal accounts, but the video evidence is not yet up to my standards. We may get there someday but we're not currently there.

Is there life in outer space? I have no doubt of this. I'm not totally sold on intelligent design just yet, and if it can happen here, it can happen somewhere else. But is it intelligent? If we apply the ratio of "intelligent" life to nonintelligent life on this planet to the rest of the universe, the odds are not very good.

Fortunately, this planet is not the rest of the universe, and if something out there is smart, it will probably figure out a way to contact us sooner or later. (Or vice versa.) This skews the figures a bit.

Are Grays on Earth right now? No. If there is one thing that my experiences have taught to me again and again, it's that people can't keep secrets. If aliens are here, people don't know about them. If they did, all people would know about them. Just my opinion.

(Not to mention the fact that if I flew halfway across the galaxy to visit another planet and didn't bother to conceal myself -- thereby implying that I don't mind being seen -- wouldn't I have the technology to advertise the fact a bit, irregardless of what the local government wanted?)
 
I guess the first place to start is with the definition of UFO. A UFO is an aerospace vehicle. It is not a balloon or natural phenomenon. It is clearly under intelligent control. UFO's make sudden stops, 90 degree turns, sudden accelerations, and fly in formation with fighter jets.
Weather balloons and swamp gas dont do these things. The Northern lights are not metallic, round objects that leave a circular area of radiation in a cornfield.

For example:
8-29-1942 - Control Tower Operator, Witness - Columbus, Miss.
Two round reddish objects descended near the Army Air Corps Flying school, hovered and accelerated away.

Not birds, not jupiter, not secret Air Force prototype. Real, mechanical thing.
Dave, somebody was flying those craft. Call them greys if you want to, just please, dont make up your mind until you have done the research. (that means books, not the internet)
 
Danny, I will not even begin to explore the inconsistencies of human vision, let alone perception and interpretation. I'll bet that you already know quite a bit about this.

I will say, however, that what we understood to be factual in 1942 is not necessarily factual in 2006. I will also say that when one is on watch and there isn't much going on...well, you see things after a while. I've had people describe mermaids to me, and sea serpents. I've watched the ocean freeze and it's downright weird, seeing it happen. I've seen other things out on the water that I just can't explain easily, but that doesn't mean anything inexplicable happened.

Am I making sense?

When we understand the world around us, top to bottom, 100%, and we have completely figured out the human mind -- and a UFO appears -- I'll be the guy sounding the alarm. Until then, I'll be sipping a beer and playing "Asteroids". Human frailties are all too apparent to me. Call me a cynic if you'd like to, but I tend to look for the simple answer.
 
Not to discount what you're saying Danny, but I've got to back Dave up on the seeing stuff thing. I have a very clear memory of being woken by several other soldiers for my guard shift while in Basic Training. I got up, got dressed and walked out into the hall to find four soldiers in the middle of their guard shift looking at me with very confused expressions on their faces. None of them had so much as walked into my room, I hallucinated the whole thing. I was very very sleep-deprived at that point.
 
i live with two greys
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If they don't want me to eat animals - why do they make them out of MEAT?
 
No matter what side of the aisle one is on, there should be "NOBODY" that does not believe in a "UFO".

Now folks may call me a loon for saying such a thing, but let's look at what UFO stands for............ Unidentified Flying Object(s).

There have been enough credible sources that have seen UFO's, that one should believe it to be a real occurance (people having seen something in the sky that seemingly has no explaination).

Does this mean that these credible sources were possibly seeing top secret man made objects? Or, that what they have seen is a spacecraft from another planet?
No, what it means is that what they saw was something that they could not identify................ hence the words "Unidentified Flying Objects". So I feel that it is absolutely true that people have indeed seen objects in the sky that they could not indentify. I think all folks, if "UFO" is explained to them in that manner, will agree that it is a true occurance. The argument only comes in when one injects the possibility that some of these UFO sightings may actually be crafts coming from some other part of the Universe.

As for it being possible that beings or machines "have" or "are" visiting us from other planets, I personally feel that it's very possible.
Us humans perfectly understand that Earth is just a speck in space. Knowing that, I guess it would be very selfish to believe that this planet is the only place in the entire Universe that contains life, or even that it's the only place to contain intelligent life (possibly much more advanced than our own).

That's my take on the UFO subject, but of course others will vary :)
 
Danny I tend to agree, but I haven't done any research. I also think halucination thing is real too. My belief is based on the infinite nature of the universe. Dave spoke of odds. Odds stretched over infinity acquire hits. I see no reason to disbelieve. My uncle Thom swears to a story like Yvsa's.

My main question is one of motives. Why do they come here? Why in relative secrecy? Are they gathering resources while they are here? Are they waiting for certain human advances before contacting us? Or even broader, are there motives positive or negative? Are we not even fit to be their slaves yet?

I like to joke that they come here for cocaine. Just won't grow anywhere else you see.
 
aproy1101 said:
My main question is one of motives. Why do they come here?

Maybe it's as simple as us being like visiting a zoo for them. Maybe the crafts are owned by safari parks (on their planets), and we are the wild animals they come to see. Humans being like monkeys to them ;)

LOL! :)


I was just joking, of course, but just thought of something.
It may be totally possible that some other beings have claimed earth as "their" property. Just like when us humans buy land here on earth, the trees, plants, insects, and other animals just happen to be on the land we purchase.
"We" may be the "insects" on their land!

Okay, I'm starting to scare myself here! LOL!!! ;)
 
JimmyJimenez said:
Maybe it's as simple as us being like visiting a zoo for them. Maybe the crafts are owned by safari parks (on their planets), and we are the wild animals they come to see. Humans being like monkeys to them ;)

LOL! :)

That is what I mean. What if thats the case? Does that make you more, or less comfortable?
 
IF that is the case, it's not all bad. Aliens with the tech to travel here would also be more than aware of their own humble origins. I doubt very much they sprung from whole cloth as a species able to travel faster than light.

Course, if they're too far evolved, in the wrong way, they might burn a few ants for fun too.



munk
 
Yeah, I know what you mean, scary stuff, huh?

But, in case we are just a fun safari park for them, I hope they continue to keep this safari park open indefinitely, then all is good.

But,............... what if their public funding gets cut, and the decision is made to make us into one of their parking lots,................. now that I would not be comfortable with!

LOL! ;)
 
I just got back from the dojo and now I have time to answer some questions. Dave brought up the point of people having thought they saw something that they didnt.
I have no doubts that this happens, hell I saw a giant black diamond in the sky once. IT turned out to be a big sign carried by two helicopters on wires.

However, and the record is filled to the brim with this, there are many accoutns of people who not only have 20/20 vision, but are TRAINED to see things in the sky clearly, such as the Air Traffic controller I already quoted above.

How about this: The man who designed the P-47 Thunderbolt. He witnessed what we call a 200 foot long "Cigar" type craft. 20/20 vision, sighting lasted several minutes, expert in the aerospace field. Object hovered, tilted and accelerated into the sky at over 100 g's.

No mistaken identity, no vision problems, no smog, no lack of education or knowledge concerning air or spacecraft can be called upon to discredit this witness. Here is a man who knew as much or more about planes and space vehicles than anyone else living on this planet, and he says he saw a UFO up close and personal.

Do some people lie? Of course.
Do some people see things, have hallucinations? Of course

But thousands of other people have reported in lucid, clear, intelligent detail.
The idea that "some people didnt see what they thought they saw" has merit, but only concerning a small percentage that has no effect whatsoever on the logical, scientifically inevitable conclusion: They are here.

I will start listing sightings as reported if you like Yvsa.
Personally, I have never seen a UFO. Thousands of others have, maybe millions, and Ill give you as many of their stories in only the minimum necessary detail as you'd like.
 
You are no nut case, Danny. You simply saw the available information, and have come to the conclusion that there is a "real possibility" that beings and/or crafts from other places have been coming here.
I feel the same as you do.

An open mind is a good thing,.......... IMO :)


PS.
I was just thinking something. What if I personally wittnessed a UFO? Would I report it?............... Honestly, I don't think I would, (though I'm sure I would tell family and friends).

There are probably so many more sightings of UFO's that are simply not reported.
 
December 6, 1952. B-29 bomber at 18,000 feet over the Gulf of Mexico.
Radar operator witnessed 4 small blips on screen moving past bomber at 5,000 mphand merge with gigantic object in front of bomber. The gigantic object then accelerated and disappeared off the screen at 9,000 mph.
Out the windows, only bluish streaks of light could be seen.

this is an official UFO report from the USAF.
 
I have no problem believing in UFO's. I take their existance to be along the same lines as God, the wind, and big foot. I've never seen any of them, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. ALL things are probable if you don't limit yourself to the human condition. The only thing I have been able to figure out in life is that I am totally ignorant in the grand scheme of things.
I find the scientific method a bit tunnel-visioned when it comes to the ultra hypothetical. We have but 5 senses to take in data to mash together and call it "reality". Heck, even old Bob Ross would use more than 5 colors to paint pictures of his happy little world. It would take a species on a very high horse (which we are) to assume that all universal evidence can be gathered with our 5 senses.
The earthly imperical evidence is not there, at least not in a huge way and accepted by the scientific community. However maybe they are studying us. Trying figure out if were are just a planet of violent monkeys that will ultimately burn ourselves out in the 10th of the time it took for the big bird lizards to die out. OR, do we have the spark of greatness. Could we use technologies to better ourselves as a sentient collective world. When we observe animals in the wild, we stay in a blind for awhile before we interact. Maybe that's what other beings are doing.
Maybe they have perfected inter-dimensional travel or worm hole technologies and can sit completely out of our reach. we can't see them, over even touch them. They might just have a "one way mirror" and are watching the show.
That said, i am not looking for a grand first contact. I don't expect to find out if aliens really exist anytime in my lifetime. Honestly, i feel that humanity puts too much importance on itself to really be of any interest to other anvanced races. I can't help but think that any aliens that stumble across us would peer down, and after a time state, "Well they sure know how to kill themselves and stack rocks."
I like threads like this. It's good to stretch the mind with science, history, hypothetics, and imagination.

Jake
 
JimmyJimenez and Satori pretty much have it right.

I respectfully recommend the late Carl Sagan's
Demon Haunted World.
:cool: :thumbup:

Not that I am opposed to conspiracies and mysteries - my brother was part of the JFK assassination conspiracy as well as other internal and external operations.

Carl Sagan said:
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
 
JimmyJimenez said:
...But, in case we are just a fun safari park for them, I hope they continue to keep this safari park open indefinitely, then all is good.
...

i volunteer to jump up on their vehicle & rip off their windsheild wiper blades & poop on their roof. :D
 
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